Difficulty Rating 92%

[Mydienon]

I read a lot about the game before downloading, and I just started playing.  Well...6 hours ago I started playing...

I don't get frustrated easily, so I didn't mind setting all the difficulty variables to maximum and getting a slow start.  I really liked the Zendar town's one-on-one pit fights for practicing parry-and-strike maneuvers.  Also, the arena gave me a good place to learn combat maneuvers in a more open setting, and with multiple enemies/allies.

But that was 6 hours ago.  My huntress character is now level 3, through experience gained solely in the arena and the pit fights.  I'm only at the third tier (Veteran opponents) in the pits.  I lost all of my starting denar betting on myself to win the arena fights.

I wanted to finish training before heading out into the world, but I didn't expect it to take so long!  Am I the worst player ever?  Reading other posts here, it seems like most people just blow through the training and start taking on armies solo at the early levels.  Is it normal for people to struggle with the combat at the very beginning? 

My enemies swing their weapons faster, block faster, run faster, and do a lot more damage per strike.  Though their health and armor seems to be similar to mine, they are vastly superior in skill. 

So my questions are these:  Should I dummy down the combat by enabling auto-block?  Should I thicken my skin by enabling 1/2 or 1/4 damage?  Should I start over with a character from the Squire background?  Or, should I stick with my original plan, and keep training my Huntress until I learn to play? 

I shudder to think how long it'll take for me to actually be able to survive a pitched battle.  Certainly I didn't expect a level 3 character to be Athene incarnate, but I did think a level 3 character (or even a level 2) would be able to complete basic combat training.  Yeah, I must be the worst player ever.

--Mydienon

 

[Ingolifs]

The people you see boasting about being able to solo entire armies are usually people who have been playing as horse archers for the entire time.

Starting off as a huntress will make you relatively weak in melee skill, and you haven't got the hang of melee combat yet, so it's not surprising that you lose frequently. As for lowering the difficulty, it's your choice whether or not to do it, if you think it enhances the experience, then go for it.
If you want to get good, just persevere. I've known people who levelled all the way up to level 6 before they finally finished the training.

 

[Mydienon]

I've known people who levelled all the way up to level 6 before they finally finished the training.

That makes me feel better. 

My problem with lowering the difficulty is that I *want* to keep the blocking difficult.  I turned on auto-blocking and it's horrible--it feels like every other game out there with a magic "press this button to become momentarily invincible" trick.  Sure you have to time it correctly, but it also makes the game less involving and fun.

The 1/2 damage function is friendlier, but that's like doubling (or quadrupling) your health.  It makes Strength and Ironflesh more powerful than they should be, and it makes combat less scary.  I like feeling nervous when my enemy has a weapon that can one- or two-hit kill me.  I tried the 1/2 damage function, and it made combat take longer, but it didn't make me win more frequently.  However, it's useful to stay alive longer, and gives me some breathing room as I practice.

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I'm going to continue with the 92% difficulty awhile longer.  (Is there any way to increase it to 100%?)  But if anyone else can help out with advising either patience or difficulty reductions, I'd appreciate it...

--Mydienon

 

[Merentha]

I'm going to continue with the 92% difficulty awhile longer.  (Is there any way to increase it to 100%?)  But if anyone else can help out with advising either patience or difficulty reductions, I'd appreciate it...

Turning it to realistic saves would cause the difficulty to shoot up, you're well over what most people would call 100%

Also, most people turn on the autoblock without even knowing it, so don't feel like you are worse than people here.  Kudos for actually trying to challenge yourself. 

 

[Ingolifs]

You can raise your difficulty% by increasing battle size.
My difficulty is at 663% because i used the battle size changer to change it to 999.

 

[Balinux]

You are not the worst player ever, You are a noob, but that will change with time. When i start with a new caracter i usualy start battling asap, with an ocasional visit to the arenas. I also play with max dificulty, but as i said, you will be able to do it well with time. If you want a good leveld start, i'd sugest that you use merchant instead of hunter it has good initial leadership and inventory management, and it can use both bow and melee weapons well enought in the begining.

 

[Archonsod]

But that was 6 hours ago.  My huntress character is now level 3, through experience gained solely in the arena and the pit fights.  I'm only at the third tier (Veteran opponents) in the pits.  I lost all of my starting denar betting on myself to win the arena fights.

The arena fights can be tricky because you don't know what you'll end up fighting with. As a general rule of thumb, don't bet on yourself to win until you're confident you can beat most battles. You might want to check out some of the bigger arena's too (like Rivacheg), since more people on your team can be helpful (especially since you can command them, while your enemies run around like headless chickens).

I wanted to finish training before heading out into the world, but I didn't expect it to take so long!  Am I the worst player ever?  Reading other posts here, it seems like most people just blow through the training and start taking on armies solo at the early levels.  Is it normal for people to struggle with the combat at the very beginning?

Most people don't even bother completing the training now. To be honest, I wouldn't bother with it if I were you. Your character is primarily ranged, and you won't get any ranged weapons in training (and those you do get you won't be able to use effectively). The only real benefit is the extra level, but since you've levelled plenty by now there's nothing really to train for except satisfaction. If that's the case, go out and beat on some river pirates till you can improve your melee skills, then go back and complete the training. 

So my questions are these:  Should I dummy down the combat by enabling auto-block?  Should I thicken my skin by enabling 1/2 or 1/4 damage?  Should I start over with a character from the Squire background?  Or, should I stick with my original plan, and keep training my Huntress until I learn to play? 

Auto-block is really a personal thing. Some people turn it off, some leave it on. Damage can probably be lowered if you want (I'm not sure if it effects your own damage as well as that dealt by enemies to be honest) don't worry - a headshot or couched lance will still instantly kill you (I've seen those things deal out 120 damage on a 1/4 damage setting...).
As for character, just be aware of the strengths of the starting class. Don't expect to beat the training with a level 1 huntress - she's a bowwoman, not a melee fighter. She'll naturally struggle in the melee based training. A squire will do better in the training since he has melee skills, but he becomes useless in the arena if landed with a bow.

I shudder to think how long it'll take for me to actually be able to survive a pitched battle.  Certainly I didn't expect a level 3 character to be Athene incarnate, but I did think a level 3 character (or even a level 2) would be able to complete basic combat training.  Yeah, I must be the worst player ever.

Go out and find some River Pirates to fight. At level 3, there shouldn't be more than 10 or so per party. The training is actually harder than fighting these guys for real - you get random weapons in an enclosed space and no horse. Outside, you at least get maneuvering room, plus the weapons you've chosen, and a horse if you have one. I'd go out and try one or two real fights then come back to the training if you still want it.

 

[Merentha]

You are not the worst player ever, You are a noob, but that will change with time. When i start with a new caracter i usualy start battling asap, with an ocasional visit to the arenas. I also play with max dificulty, but as i said, you will be able to do it well with time. If you want a good leveld start, i'd sugest that you use merchant instead of hunter it has good initial leadership and inventory management, and it can use both bow and melee weapons well enought in the begining.

You have the manual blocking on?  I doubt it, most people don't know that its even an option.

 

[Alfie(UK)]

So my questions are these:  Should I dummy down the combat by enabling auto-block?  Should I thicken my skin by enabling 1/2 or 1/4 damage?  Should I start over with a character from the Squire background?  Or, should I stick with my original plan, and keep training my Huntress until I learn to play? 

I shudder to think how long it'll take for me to actually be able to survive a pitched battle.  Certainly I didn't expect a level 3 character to be Athene incarnate, but I did think a level 3 character (or even a level 2) would be able to complete basic combat training.  Yeah, I must be the worst player ever.

Bear in mind that after peasants the lowest level recruits you normally get (farmers/townsmen) are 4th level. I think River Pirates (your lowest level enemy) start at level 4 as well (never recruited any so don't know for sure).

If Huntress was your natural first choice I'd say stick with it for now until you get a better feel for the game. Personally it took me 2 days of playing (about 14 hours) before I felt comfortable with the combat system and started owning combat in the training halls (yet lost 50% in the arena). My first characters didn't leave Zendar (the first time that you leave Zendar starts the spawning of enemy parties on the map) until he was 5th level through tournament battles and held his own up against River Pirates and low-level Bandits.

It's quite normal to leave AI set to max (as it affects your troops as well as enemy) but set character damage to the lowest early on, a 2nd level character on full damage is going to have a tough time against even River Pirates on their own, pretty much 2 hits and you're unconcious. Ease yourself into the game and adjust the character damage upwards once you start feeling it's no longer a challenge. I tend to be at full CD once I reach level 7 as I have my base weapon skills to a reasonable level, but even that is tough.

Most people also start with auto-block on (it's on by default) and I would hazard a guess that many never turn it off as manual blocking is scary when you first try it. Seriously, don't try it unless you are a reality purist or you have many game hours under your belt and want a greater challenge.

The biggest challenge I find with this game is spending your attribute/skill points wisely. You need to focus very early on for what you want your character to be good at, at higher levels it's less of an issue, you can start to generalise, but trying to be generalised early on will leave you with no 'quick kill' skill.

As others have stated, the training hall doesn't let your huntress shine, it's all melee. The tournament may, but weapon choice is random. Moving to Rivacheg you have the chance of 8v8v8 tournaments which mean 'easier' battles and net you bigger rewards, but I'd suggest stick with Zendar early on.

Don't be scared to start over, it took me getting 4 characters to 6th level before I felt that I had someone that I could work with. Attribute/skill balance felt right, and I didn't get owned too much early on. You can actually go through character gen all the way to completing the training Grounds then just make a copy of your save game (should be in My Documents\Mount&Blade Savegames\Native), and copy it back when you want to start again without having to go through char gen/training.

Best of luck, explore the possibilities and I hope you enjoy the game.

 

[Mydienon]

Thanks for the responses.  I took a break to sleep, and will tackle the combat again later (yaay no work today!)...

My battle size slider stops at 40, so I can't push it to 1000 (and I'm not sure I'd want to; I have a good graphics card but my processor is aging).  As for the AI, of course it's on "Good" and I didn't mention changing it because, well, I won't.

I'm still playing with manual blocking.  I'm not a purist, but I do like the level of control it provides.  The downside here is that it's hard to block a faster opponent--and they are faster because my melee weapon skill is still quite low.  But then, when my opponent has a big 2-handed sword and I have a staff, I can parry all day against them (until I make a mistake, and die in 2 hits).

Alfie, thanks for the thorough response.  Knowing that my recruits and enemies outside Zendar's walls are approximately 4th level makes me happy to stay in training.  I really want to get out in the world and see what's there...but I don't want to do it on my back with a fractured skull.  I'll try to be patient and keep at the training.  Also, I need to make my starting denar back--I figure Archonsod is right; don't bet on myself, and just collect the no-risk reward for the next several fights.

The advice to copy the save game (rather than just export the character) is a big help--I definitely want to do that when I head out into the world outside Zendar...

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Despite my numerous tournament losses and even more numerous training hall pit-fights, this game is already more fun than I ever expected...  Now it's time to stop typing, and start getting smacked in the head!

--Mydienon

 

[Archonsod]

  I really want to get out in the world and see what's there...but I don't want to do it on my back with a fractured skull.

I wouldn't worry about it. Until you leave town and time begins to pass there's very few parties on the map. If you're alone with a horse you should be able to outrun anyone else around Zendar.

An easy way to grab some extra loot and cash is to hang around outside Zendar till a party of Manhunters spawn. You can then follow their party and join in when they get into combat (they'll catch some river pirates eventually). You get to command their troops (free meat shield) and get the full experience and similar from the battle (even if you wait until there's only one pirate left before joining in).

I'm starting to think that in many ways the game might be easier at the start to remain solo for a time. You'll benefit from speed and similar, and you can join in the multiple combats without worrying about losing troops to the autocalc should you decide to retreat.

 

[leprechaun]

Good on you, mate. Does anyone else find that the game is actually far more fun with the AI turned up?

 

[Audun]

My battle size slider stops at 40, so I can't push it to 1000

If you want bigger battles just download Janus' battle size changer, it can change battles to numbers between 14 and 1000.

Only use higher than 200 if you have alot of RAM though.

 

[Cirdan]

What eats up the RAM isn't the fighters, it's the horses. My 1.5GB can handle three hundred footmen, but not one hundred cavalry. Or maybe the horses eat my puny CPU (and yes, it really is puny compared to the RAM).

Frankly I keep autoblock on. It's not actually an advantage, since it sometimes ****s up and blocks the wrong direction, but it spares me from drilling parrying into a reflex, which I feel would be a waste of time because I rarely use it outside of training. If you get mobbed, parrying with a sword is no longer useful, and there's no skill in parrying with a shield anyway (and it will probably get hacked to pieces in no time). Most of my characters don't use shields, so I just don't parry most of the time. Fancy footwork is more reliable anyway, plus it can get you into a good attacking position.

One trick i'd recommend (if your weapon has the same or greater reach than your foe's) is to step back as he swings at you, then immediately step forwards with a swing of your own. I learned that from the good AI; while the game's AI is poor in battles, it does a quite decent job in duels.

 

[Alfie(UK)]

Battlesizer utility to change max number of forces per round  http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,8058.0.html

Increasing the size of the battlefield itself for larger battles  http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,16207.msg322943.html#msg322943

Blocking is a personal choice, although as Cirdan says 'parrying' with your weapon is not as useful in full scale battles when you are mobbed by infantry, but if you're happy with manual blocking stick with it - it'll be tougher early on but once it feels natural it can help you against enemies that use feint attacks and the like.

If you find that enemies are much faster than you then you might want to have a backup weapon with a fast weapon speed stat, also your Agility affects weapon speed more than weapon skill does. I tend to try to get Agility up to 9/12 fairly early on and with a fast weapon you can wade into battle and usually strike whilst an enemy is halfway into their swing. Cirdan also mentioned footwork, the AI does tend to take their first swing from just out of range as you close, so you can step back as they swing then step in and slice them as they are recovering.

Archonsod, as always, has a very good suggestion, join in other's battles early on. This means that you don't have to worry about building up a large party (just to watch them get decimated) and can get away with fighting much larger and more experienced enemies.

Taking on small bands of River Pirates will generate cash in the form of loot and quest rewards as well as gain you experience, and is the only real starter quest in the current version (talk to the constable in Zendar).

 

[Sturmspawn]

...yep - in all cases AI at full strength is actually more an advantage than a disadvantage in terms of better performance from all parties in battle [who wants to fight a stupid opponent with a stupid party?]. Vast improvement to play, ignore that aspect of difficulty rating as 'difficulty.'          

I never block - it just doesn't come up, except in Zendar training, and even there it doesn't work for me. I don't use a shield either [blocking might be meaningful if a shield were involved, but then autoblock would be sufficient]. Taught my horse to dodge as well as I do on the ground, and then I take my chances. Problem with setting block to mouse direction is that you are now trying to control two opposite things with one control. Mouse direction is for orientation and aiming, and right-clicking for a block in the midst of that probably means [to me] you may not have oriented or assessed enemy activity properly or 'new enemies' have spawned underfoot. If this is the case, run-turn-attack. IMO Mouse direction block [or blocking generally] will distract you from taking proper aim with most weapons - I'm not the most aggressive player, but I find if I think in terms of defensive postures [at least in this game] it simply weakens my assault.

 

[Eluqqa]

To be honest, i can't just blow through the training even though i consider myself a decent player, so you probably are not the worst player ever. I can, however, kill relatively large enemy parties with my army supporting me.

 

[Ingolifs]

Turn manual mouse blocking off.

 

[Timber Wolf]

Hey, I just tried to get through training on mouse blocking, and I failed horribly. Any tips?

Yeah, try it in first person mode.

 

[Mydienon]

I haven't tried any mods, though some look interesting when I browsed through them.  Battlesizer might be one to download...but I'll wait to see how my CPU does with the 40-max setting first, and whether the multiple battles to beat an enemy is a true annoyance. 

After fighting some pitched battles against river pirates, I see why some say the battles are easier than training.  You have a "meat shield" to engage the enemies while you pick them off from afar (while maintaining command of troops, watching out for enemies that come at you, and maneuvering into optimal positions for attacks). 

Parrying with a weapon is fun with manual blocking, but it's quite difficult to get the timing right.  It's really annoying that the AI enemies can feint, while I can't.  They start an attack with one swing, then change when they see me block--I guess because I'm blocking too soon.  However, when I see the enemy holding a block, I can't change to a different swing...

That said, there is another tactical element here.  If you hold an attack, the enemy will stand there holding their parry for a long time.  Eventually, the enemy will get bored, stop parrying, and try to attack--at which time you can smack them hard.  This "standoff" held attack also has another advantage--they'll stand there waiting to parry you, while your allies can go in behind them and knock them down.  Not a great tactic for personal XP, but useful nonetheless.

As for parrying tactics in battle, getting mobbed means losing (at least at my current skill level).  I've avoided it so far, but when I'm solo against three enemies in the arena, I can see how parrying loses it's effectiveness.  On the other hand, I've also used parrying to stay alive a touch longer until a teammate can aid me.  It rarely works.  But, combined with dodging (which I've also found, like other players, to be quite advantageous) it can give you those few extra seconds of consciousness when an ally can change the odds in your favour. 

I haven't tried any battles in first-person mode.  I'll have to try it--thanks for the tip Timber Wolf.

Another tip, which Sturmspawn reminded me of, is to make your mouse-block direction and your attack-direction the same.  The default is opposite--move right to left to swing left to right, or to block an attack coming from the left.  This totally confused me and completely threw off my positioning and maneuvering.  So I changed it--I guess I remember "momentum" better.  I move the mouse right to left to swing right to left, or to block an attack coming from the left.  Manual blocking is still very difficult, but I haven't had any problems with getting out of position or dodging while controlling my attacks and parries.

You may also want to turn down mouse sensitivity.  My adrenalin rushes caused some serious viewing angle problems due to moving the mouse too far.  While now I have it back to the middle-ish sensitivity, it helped out at the beginning to turn it down quite a bit.  The disadvantage is that you lose rotation speed, and that means dodging and positioning.  Good for practicing parrying/attacking until you can do it more calmly.

Actually, another tip for practicing parrying is to simply use the training.  It's one opponent.  Try doing it without moving/turning at all.  Stand there calmly, watch their attacks, and parry them.  This works great if you have a fast weapon and they don't.  When you get somewhat competent at this, add in some attacks of your own--but still don't try moving or dodging.  You'll get a good sense of how long it takes to swing, how long it takes them to recover, and when to attack after a parry (I'm still working on this--my enemies seem to be able to attack, get parried, and attack again before I can swing even a fast weapon).  Finally, when you have attacking and parrying down, add in the footwork you learned from tournaments and battles.

I *think* this will make you a competent manual blocker, and a decent melee opponent.  But I'm not there yet.  I *still* haven't made it past the third tier opponents in the training pit, and I still lose enough tournaments to make betting on myself a risky proposition.

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One more thing about battles.  Formations!  What I wouldn't give to have some basic formation commands!  I have a whole keyboard full of keys not being used for anything; I would love to be able to command formations and direct specific unit types:  "Vaegir Footmen echelon right and hold position here"; "Farmers and Townsmen line formation charge"; "Watchmen with mounts wedge formation charge"; "Watchmen without mounts follow and defend me".

These gaggle-formations of lumped-together troops make the strategy gamer in me cringe. 

--Mydienon