Difference between Hatamoto and Elite ashigaru is too small?

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shaelor

Squire
M&B
I was stunned when I realized that the difference often amounts to very little. Or am I missing something? I hope I am since I wan't my elite units :smile:

Shimazu hatamoto gunner
Health 60
Firearms 251
Athletics 6

Elite ryuzoji skirmisher
Health 64
Firearms 223
Athletics 5

There is of course also slightly better equipment for hatamotos.
 
Hatamoto always get either a bow or a gun, depending on the faction. Skirmishers may spawn with any, so that Ryuzoji Skirmisher is going to be a lot less effective should he spawn with a bow instead of a gun.
 
There is a script that randomize their equipment. It works with all ashigaru units.

Version 3.0 Changes
General:
...
- Ranged ashigaru now spawn a ratio of gunners and archers rather than just one or the other. ranged samurai remain the same
...
 

PPQ_Purple

Knight
Another thing to consider is equipment. IIRC even elite ashigaru only get the kind of stuff that you find on samurai Recruits where as Hamato troops get the awesome best armor in the game. The one with the cool shoulder pads.
 

LQuinze

Recruit
Like PPQ_Purple said, there's a big difference in equipment. Hatamoto Gunners/archers usually get stronger teppo/bows and katanas, and armour. They also usually have Kozane armour that's around 50+ armour. Skirmishers on the other hand usually only get Wakizashi and Retainer level armours in the 35+ range. Ranged samurai really prove their worth when the enemy line finally closes and things devolve into a messy brawl. Skirmishers tend to die very quickly in hand-to-hand combat - their wakizashis have very short reach and generally don't do enough damage to let them kill an enemy before they are shanked.

Secondly, it's likely what you are seeing is the way Warband randomizes stats. At the beginning of every new game, the engine randomizes all NPC stats a little, adding several points based on their level to the default stats that are set for them in the troops.txt. This makes every game a little unique. Thus you'll notice each faction's troops, despite being of identical tier, level, and starting stats, will have slightly different final attributes.

It's possible that the Shimazu gunner in your game got a poor stat spread compared to the Ryujozi Skirmisher you're comparing with. Try comparing several different Hatamotos/Skirmishers from different factions and you'll notice there's some variation in their attributes and HP.
 

phlpp

Knight
WBWF&S
I'll fix the problem with proficiencies regarding the ashigaru skirmishers for 3.1. I don't recall if there's a way to script a way to change proficiencies of troop templates mid-game (i know that changing the troop file won't have any immediate effect at all) or if you have to start a new game but either way it'll be save-compatible (just not guaranteed to have effect).

If there's a 4.0, or *ahem* some other version, I will be revising the troop system entirely.
 
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