Did the costs and income change?

[Plisko]

This is my third or fourth time working my way up from scratch. This time around the income is really challenging compared to the expenses. I have gathered a couple of families into my kingdom and they are supporting their own cities and castles. I have 4 cities and 4 castles of my own. They are all healthy and happy. I am a level 5 kingdom. I have every slot for a business taken up and they are bringing in around $200-300 or so each. I have a character doing a caravan.

I need good high level troops in my fiefs because the enemies come at me with 1800 person armies. I also need reserves to draw from when battles go badly. But...keeping things at this level is a money pit. Even with all my income sources, my daily expense is still something like -10,000 to -18,000 per day. It is insane. The only thing keeping me from going bankrupt, from the very beginning of my playthrough is smelting and forging weapons. I am like a weapons factory chugging away every couple of days to build the army funds back up.

I can't run around looking for characters, I can't work on diplomacy. If I loose focus for to long my funds reach critical levels. My tactics are not that different compared to my other playthroughs... in the past, once I had the cities and castles established I could at least break even and I would usually have a positive income. This time around it feels like I am either going to be severely under powered and loose my fiefs in the battles... or I am going to have unmanageable expenses. What do I need to adjust?

 

[Ask]

Personally, the way I work around that is by keeping lower level troops in garrisons, since they tend to be my biggest expense. Specially with good level walls, simulated battles are very skewed towards the defender, the attacking army usually needs 2-3 more times the troops to take over.

Aside from that, having good governors with a fair amount of + militia and garrison reduction costs, you can cut back on those costs a lot. If I've got any settlements that are rarely attacked, I just keep a very small garrison in them. In the off chance they get attacked I rush over there.

Another big cost I sometimes end up with is more clan parties. While they are very useful, most of the time they don't fight enough to pay for their themselves. That's why I tend to disband them if I'm not at war. Yes, it sucks because my characters won't be leveling steward and such on their own in times of peace, but you gotta do what you gotta do when you're struggling with money.

 

[Plisko]

Personally, the way I work around that is by keeping lower level troops in garrisons, since they tend to be my biggest expense. Specially with good level walls, simulated battles are very skewed towards the defender, the attacking army usually needs 2-3 more times the troops to take over.

Aside from that, having good governors with a fair amount of + militia and garrison reduction costs, you can cut back on those costs a lot. If I've got any settlements that are rarely attacked, I just keep a very small garrison in them. In the off chance they get attacked I rush over there.

Another big cost I sometimes end up with is more clan parties. While they are very useful, most of the time they don't fight enough to pay for their themselves. That's why I tend to disband them if I'm not at war. Yes, it sucks because my characters won't be leveling steward and such on their own in times of peace, but you gotta do what you gotta do when you're struggling with money.

I am pretty sure it is about the garrisoned troops. I just don't remember having this much trouble in the past while using the same strategy. It feels like something changed...but I may just be pushing the limits too far storing my high level troops while training up more. I guess I will start changing it up and see what happens. I am already starting to strip off some troops and give them to the other clan member garrisons. Hopefully I won't mess up their economics in the process.

 

[Ask]

I am pretty sure it is about the garrisoned troops. I just don't remember having this much trouble in the past while using the same strategy. It feels like something changed...but I may just be pushing the limits too far storing my high level troops while training up more. I guess I will start changing it up and see what happens. I am already starting to strip off some troops and give them to the other clan member garrisons. Hopefully I won't mess up their economics in the process.

Maybe you went for Empire culture before and then picked another? Empire has a -20% cost for garrison wages, which can come up to quite a bit when stacked with things like castellan's office and governor bonuses.

EDIT:
As far as I'm aware though, there hasn't been any changes to garrison wages/reduction abilities in a long time now, so it's not that.

 

[Goyyyio]

want to know what is an expense? Giving South America a server apparently, taleworlds wont drop a cent for a server for us, guess its because we're browner or something

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Yes....well kinda, some updates ago they lowered the values of most equipment, this means loot value goes down somewhat and smithing money goes down somewhat, but also means it's much cheaper to buy good gear. Caravans and workshops have been dubious ventures for a long time.

The only thing keeping me from going bankrupt, from the very beginning of my playthrough is smelting and forging weapons. I am like a weapons factory chugging away every couple of days to build the army funds back up.

You've been starred in a trap! While you waste time waiting for stamina you enemies rebuild! How will you make nay progress if you let you enemies rebuild so you can smith weapons? Hunt them down doggedly and relentlessly sell them and thier loot to finance everything! This will be more then enough!

need good high level troops in my fiefs because the enemies come at me with 1800 person armies

This is another trap! You only need enough/quality of troops to have a +security/loyalty, you shouldn't be trying to scare away armies or ever intend to actual use the garrison in battle! The AI can always put together more and more troops to siege you, trying to match them this way will certainly waste all you funds of garrison coasts. Be them in field! Stop them for assembling! Don't let them rest!

I can't run around looking for characters, I can't work on diplomacy.

Don't. Take whatever wanderers you can find easily and make them a new clan when you have 500 influence, no need to waste time on normal clans and never make peace unless you vassals all vote for it!

In short FIGHT, don't waste campaign time!

want to know what is an expense? Giving South America a server apparently, taleworlds wont drop a cent for a server for us, guess its because we're browner or something

No no, you have to play with your 150+ ping to make the ero pee'ns and amerifats feel good about themselves!

 

[Plisko]

Yes....well kinda, some updates ago they lowered the values of most equipment, this means loot value goes down somewhat and smithing money goes down somewhat, but also means it's much cheaper to buy good gear. Caravans and workshops have been dubious ventures for a long time.


You've been starred in a trap! While you waste time waiting for stamina you enemies rebuild! How will you make nay progress if you let you enemies rebuild so you can smith weapons? Hunt them down doggedly and relentlessly sell them and thier loot to finance everything! This will be more then enough!


This is another trap! You only need enough/quality of troops to have a +security/loyalty, you shouldn't be trying to scare away armies or ever intend to actual use the garrison in battle! The AI can always put together more and more troops to siege you, trying to match them this way will certainly waste all you funds of garrison coasts. Be them in field! Stop them for assembling! Don't let them rest!


Don't. Take whatever wanderers you can find easily and make them a new clan when you have 500 influence, no need to waste time on normal clans and never make peace unless you vassals all vote for it!

In short FIGHT, don't waste campaign time!


No no, you have to play with your 150+ ping to make the ero pee'ns and amerifats feel good about themselves!

Good advice. I'm leaning in this direction for sure. Keeping a kingdom alive in the early stages has a lot of things to weigh against each other. More than one kingdom declaring war is brutal. One tiny defeated king with his clan, no fiefs and a 3 mercenaries cannot be stopped from staying in a war footing and looting villages endlessly with troops they just recruited. Put them in jail, they stop for a while, then they escape and keep going. Having better troops in a garrison has always seemed to buy time during a siege. They may still end up taking the fief, but they can also be repelled and/or I have more time to get across the map. The alternative is arriving too late, getting taken... take it back... get taken... take it back. I guess I could just do that but it is kind of tedious and it grinds through troops when the goal is collecting more.

I have been shifting to this strategy you recommend and thinning out the garrisons to field the high tier troops. I must have a crapload of high troops because it is not reducing expenses much. It is starting to look like really weak garrisons are intended if we must stay within the city income. Meanwhile, the enemy still seems to plow through anything but hardened troops in a garrison. I don't see this defender advantage at all in the AI auto battles. Not in my favor anyway. If the garrison is affordable, the enemy will always easily have the numbers and easily take the city because my garrison will suck and theirs will be filled with elites. Meanwhile, they have 500 defenders in their own cities shooting fire catapults and it grinds through all my elites to take them.

Your right, smithing is a bit of a trap. It can cause you to avoid budgetary considerations and then you are a wage slave to your troops. But if you have several companions assisting, you can get a lot done within that single rest period. It turns cheap weapon loot into much bigger money and it removes any other need to generate additional income. That is actually a big time saver compared to other ways that time creates money. I can smelt all the big items, create charcoal and make 15 two handed swords in a single day's rest period using companions. The smithing points, in turn, cause my party members and I to level up. Within that rest period I can raise 100K and empty a prosperous city bank account.

My 3 siblings have massive troop limits. That is my main strategy for armies. The 4 of us can raise 800 troop armies before anyone else joins us. I have not figured out how to turn companions into vassals. This is also a strategy I want to start using, so I guess it is time to look it up. I also haven't figured out how to make the other clan's parties large enough to join my army. They are all hovering at less than 40% of their troop limit.

My current strategy is to have a high charm and scan all the kingdoms for clans that have no fief. They will always talk to me and if I succeed they can always be bought. The searching I was thinking of was more about finding the wife I want and/or doing favors for people to increase relations. Those are time consuming and unaffordable if I have -$10,000 per day sucking at my wallet.

 

[Plisko]

Maybe you went for Empire culture before and then picked another? Empire has a -20% cost for garrison wages, which can come up to quite a bit when stacked with things like castellan's office and governor bonuses.

EDIT:
As far as I'm aware though, there hasn't been any changes to garrison wages/reduction abilities in a long time now, so it's not that.

That would make a lot of sense now that I think about it. I think Empire was my preferred culture before. Mystery solved.