Devs and "Community" Employees Are Averaging Less than 1 Post Per Day - Where Is The Engagement?

[danEN]

Ah there it is, the excuse most toxic people, bullies or even trolls eventually bring up: "you should get a ticker skin".

You think "insufferable inaction and stupid decision making" or "such high quality work" are respectful comments leading to constructive discussions with the devs (and they're not the worst I've seen around here, I just took two quick examples). I don't. End of story.

no doubt a lot of us go over the line with criticism (not me) but it's a result of our actual constructive suggestions and criticisms being ignored for years

everyone forgets how long people on this forum have spent testing the game and creating detailed threads for the developers compared to regular players

 

[five bucks]

It wasn't PC users asking for a console port.

Again that is my point. People who paid money for the game first is who this is about.

Doesn't the sally out mission fall into your own primary category? Seeing that its prototypes were shown pre-release.

Are you talking about pre EA release?

TW was speaking about a console port as early as 2020. That is an obligation to a fan base. By your own logic, they should go through with that in order to make sure that fans will actually be able to play a game.

My logic is that people who paid for a good or service should receive it ASAP without avoidable delays. So no.

PC players don't get a Monopoly on Mount and Blade

Nowhere did I ask for this. However people who paid for a product first should have it delivered in complete condition first.
That way as an added bonus, when the game reaches console players who paid second, it's complete for them.

Instead, what we have now is both the PC and console community having an incomplete released game with many flaws which I am now also seeing many console players complain about too.

IDK about sales numbers. Save corruptions on older consoles are an issue. However, superficial reactions appear positive as seen in this thread:

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Here's what I'm seeing on Reddit from console players:

This is what late game Bannerlord looks like

Posted in r/mountandblade by u/Enlightened-Beaver • 683 points and 185 comments

ww.reddit.com

The further console players get through the game, the more pessimistic they get like us longtime players because Bannerlord's vassal/kingdom ruler gameplay experience is frustrating and poorly designed/balanced.

Would be interesting to see console sales numbers for Bannerlord.

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

Are you talking about pre EA release?

Yep. 4minutes

 

[five bucks]

Yep. 4minutes

Isn't that not what TW is talking about with the currently planned one though? I thought you said that was a bandit hideout style mission.

 

[SpartanBG]

no doubt a lot of us go over the line with criticism (not me) but it's a result of our actual constructive suggestions and criticisms being ignored for years

everyone forgets how long people on this forum have spent testing the game and creating detailed threads for the developers compared to regular players

True that my friend, true that. I know a good test can take weeks, months or whatever time is required.



Also on a side not, Five bucks wrote when a studio promises to deliever a good service, they should do it ASAP.
Like in what world are you living, Facebook had developed META for few years and it ended up as a crappy VR Game for 100s of millions.You seem to know what is wrong and what is right and how the world should work and how it shouldn't but fact is fact. World runs the way it runs, companeis constantly mess up, code is hard to get to a good state and it may require years before we get a product that is fleshed out (to the expectations you have). And if you think that paying 60 $ gives you the right to demand and be the way you are, well f*ckin' sue the damn studio and see how it goes

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

I thought you said that was a bandit hideout style mission

I would recommend asking for quotes when presented such claims I don't believe I made any such statements.

Which is not to say that an early showcase / prototype should rigidly define the final outcome either.

 

[Ser Jon]

Ah there it is, the excuse most toxic people, bullies or even trolls eventually bring up: "you should get a ticker skin".

You think "insufferable inaction and stupid decision making" or "such high quality work" are respectful comments leading to constructive discussions with the devs (and they're not the worst I've seen around here, I just took two quick examples). I don't. End of story.

It's sound advice. You need to learn not to let things like this upset you. There's nothing toxic about it, but you constantly poking at people and calling them toxic bullies and trolls because you're angry about what they are saying sure is toxic. But I suppose it only goes one way with you, huh?

And it is insufferable inaction and stupid decision making. It's also the truth and has nothing to do with insulting/disrespectful behavior and because you think it does, you need to get thicker skin. They are professionals who are selling a product. Honest, even brutal honest, feedback is expected of any rational and unbiased customer.

So again...get thicker skin.

 

[Phantom425]

My logic is that people who paid for a good or service should receive it ASAP without avoidable delays. So no.

So some people shouldn't be allowed to play the game at all?

Nowhere did I ask for this. However people who paid for a product first should have it delivered in complete condition first.
That way as an added bonus, when the game reaches console players who paid second, it's complete for them.

Never said that you did. TW said that they were going to make a Console Release so they owed it to Console Players. That is an obligation.

It doesn't matter if you bought the game before Console players, them being actually able to play the game is more important then whatever feature you may want.

 

[five bucks]

I would recommend asking for quotes when presented such claims I don't believe I made any such statements.

Which is not to say that an early showcase / prototype should rigidly define the final outcome either.

My apologies, someone replying to your comment on it described it as like a bandit camp fight.

The reason I listed it at all was because the way TW was talking about it, it sounded like some completely different substantive game mechanic.

"In the future, we want the sally out action to have its own dedicated mission that plays out on the relevant siege scene, making these unique events a bit more special."

Whereas what was shown in that video is pretty much what we have now except your troops have horses. (And that's fine, by the way.)

Never said that you did. TW said that they were going to make a Console Release so they owed it to Console Players. That is an obligation.

Obligations where $100,000,000s of dollars have changed hands are more important than a spoken obligation of "there will be a copy for you too eventually" to a set of customers who had not paid yet. Obligations which were done first are also more important than obligations made later.

First come, first served is pretty standard business practice.

It doesn't matter if you bought the game before Console players, them being actually able to play the game is more important then whatever feature you may want.

Actually 3,000,000+ PC buyers having a complete game they have already paid for 2 years ago is more important than ~300,000 console buyers (or whatever the figures are) having access to an incomplete game which they had not paid for.

But whatever. It's done now, it can't be changed, that time has already been wasted so there's no point arguing how it's wrong. What needs to happen is:

* Taleworlds needs to communicate more transparently, and actually make it clear they are going to take on board the community's opinion on how existing mechanics should be balanced or fixed to make the game more fun (for example @Flesson19 's or Ananda's or Blood Gryphon's feedback that comes from a huge amount of experience, probably more than most TW devs). They and some other prominent community members have provided some feedback for a long time that has been apparently ignored, judging by the content of patches.

* 1.0.3 needs to have some serious gameplay fixes in it that make the partially functional game mechanics actually work, so this game can actually be fun. Voting, relations, war/peace score, companion and player skill levelling, tactics/medicine/engineering skills, armour, spears etc need fixing. Most of the fixes needed are just numerical changes yet would hugely improve the game.

* Anti-consumer whiteknights who only care about what benefits Taleworlds and not what benefits themselves as consumers need to stop making excuses for Taleworlds, so TW is forced to allow its actual paid community managers to do the talking and provide some answers.

If TW can't manage these first two apparently simple things they are going to steadily lose the support of the fanbase. I am already seeing this on usually more positive places like Reddit, Youtube etc., as the post-release players are getting to the lategame over the past few weeks they are complaining about more and more flaws.

 

[Flesson19]

My apologies, someone replying to your comment on it described it as like a bandit camp fight.

The reason I listed it at all was because the way TW was talking about it, it sounded like some completely different substantive game mechanic.

"In the future, we want the sally out action to have its own dedicated mission that plays out on the relevant siege scene, making these unique events a bit more special."

Whereas what was shown in that video is pretty much what we have now except your troops have horses. (And that's fine, by the way.)

Obligations where $100,000,000s of dollars have changed hands are more important than a spoken obligation of "there will be a copy for you too eventually" to a set of customers who had not paid yet. Obligations which were done first are also more important than obligations made later.

First come, first served is pretty standard business practice.

Actually 3,000,000+ PC buyers having a complete game they have already paid for 2 years ago is more important than ~300,000 console buyers (or whatever the figures are) having access to an incomplete game which they had not paid for.

But whatever. It's done now, it can't be changed, that time has already been wasted so there's no point arguing how it's wrong. What needs to happen is:

* Taleworlds needs to communicate more transparently, and actually make it clear they are going to take on board the community's opinion on how existing mechanics should be balanced or fixed to make the game more fun (for example @Flesson19 's or Ananda's or Blood Gryphon's feedback that comes from a huge amount of experience, probably more than most TW devs). They and some other prominent community members have provided some feedback for a long time that has been apparently ignored, judging by the content of patches.

* 1.0.3 needs to have some serious gameplay fixes in it that make the partially functional game mechanics actually work, so this game can actually be fun. Voting, relations, war/peace score, companion and player skill levelling, tactics/medicine/engineering skills, armour, spears etc need fixing. Most of the fixes needed are just numerical changes yet would hugely improve the game.

* Anti-consumer whiteknights who only care about what benefits Taleworlds and not what benefits themselves as consumers need to stop making excuses for Taleworlds, so TW is forced to allow its actual paid community managers to do the talking and provide some answers.

If TW can't manage these first two apparently simple things they are going to steadily lose the support of the fanbase. I am already seeing this on usually more positive places like Reddit, Youtube etc., as the post-release players are getting to the lategame over the past few weeks they are complaining about more and more flaws.

+10

 

[FireBlazinCandy]

* 1.0.3 needs to have some serious gameplay fixes in it that make the partially functional game mechanics actually work, so this game can actually be fun. Voting, relations, war/peace score, companion and player skill levelling, tactics/medicine/engineering skills, armour, spears etc need fixing. Most of the fixes needed are just numerical changes yet would hugely improve the game.

@Dejan @Duh_TaleWorlds you cannot release a game unfinished, especially THIS unfinished, put up a community blog saying what's to come later down the line, and just go dark about the development. We paid you ****ing money.

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

put up a community blog saying what's to come later down the line, and just go dark about the development

Development is ongoing in accordance to what was announced. Stability and performance issues will be hotfixed with priority, content will be shared as part of regular patches.

 

[FireBlazinCandy]

Great response.

I like how you edited the second part in after you probably released it was too on the nose.

Here's my edit:

You released an unfinished, broken game. What was announced was you were to have a finished game after one year of EA development. That's why we bought the game. You missed that mark, so throw us a bone and tell us what is happening with the money we have you for a product.

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

I like how you edited the second part in after you probably released it was too on the nose.

I figured it wasn't on the nose enough and elaborated my confusion for your convenience

tell us what is happening

I did here:

Development is ongoing in accordance to what was announced [in the release plans]. Stability and performance issues will be hotfixed with priority, content will be shared as part of regular patches.

If you have a specific question about the topics that we announced in the release plans, I am happy to answer what I can.

 

[FireBlazinCandy]

I figured it wasn't on the nose enough and elaborated my confusion for your convenience


I did here:

If you have a specific question about the topics that we announced in the release plans, I am happy to answer what I can.

Don't treat me like an idiot. Dates. Give us dates for expected updates and dates for when you expect the game to be finished. By now you surely have a rough idea of when patches are coming and when the game is to be finished.

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

We don't currently provide patch dates. Having said that, the release plans do state that we intend to update the game for some time to come.

I take it you don't have a specific question about the topics we are currently working on then?

 

[NPC99]

Don't treat me like an idiot.

IMO you get better treatment than your posts deserve.

 

[FireBlazinCandy]

We don't currently provide patch dates. Having said that, the release plans do state that we intend to update the game for some time to come.

Do you not see why this is a problem? Why do you think you have a right to sell a product, unfinished, and then tell the customer that it will be fixed, but I'm not telling you when.

IMO you get better treatment than your posts deserve.

Great input. And why is that? Because I want to know what is happening to a game I bought over two years ago that still isn't finished?

 

[NPC99]

Great input. And why is that? Because I want to know what is happening to a game I bought over two years ago that still isn't finished?

Because you ignore any information posted or answers provided that don’t fit your narrative. Whether the game should be finished or not at this stage, TW have been entirely clear on what they are doing.

 

[High Solar]

We don't currently provide patch dates. Having said that, the release plans do state that we intend to update the game for some time to come.

I take it you don't have a specific question about the topics we are currently working on then?

@Duh_TaleWorlds Are there any plans for a overhaul for the diplomacy and npc interaction. Late game is just boring its only battles during war time and during peace time it's dreadfully boring, literally nothing to do. Adding random events and the ability to govern your town will spice up the game play. Check out Rome 2 total war's event system and CK2.