Dev Blog 30/11/17

[parsehtml]<p><img class="frame" src="http://www.taleworlds.com/Images/News/blog_post_18_taleworldswebsite_575.jpg" alt="" width="575" height="290" /></p> <p>They came from overseas, mercenaries and adventurers, speaking the tongues of many lands, taking the empire's silver to guard the frontiers against the unsubdued tribes of the interior. They took their name from one of their first warlords, Wilund the Bold - Valandion, in Calradic - and became known as the Vlandians. Their heavy cavalry, second to none, ran down the Emperor's foes from the Aserai wastes to the distant steppes. But the empire never had as much silver as it needed, and treasury officials soon learned that it could pay its mercenaries with land grants and titles. This was perhaps not the most far-sighted of policies. The Vlandians settled, married, planted farms, and built fortresses. It was not difficult, during the recent interregnum, for Osrac Iron-arm to declare himself king, independent in all but name. He seized the imperial capital of Baravenos and the lands along the coast, and that was how the west was lost to the empire.</p></br> [/parsehtml]Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/37

 

[Bergil]

Glad they're erring on the side of inclusion when it comes to arms and armour. I was playing Viking Conquest and it's a pretty good example of how not to do the game, it's certainly "historically accurate" enough (although I have sincere misgivings about everyone and their brother packing a fustibalus), but the combat is also **** boring compared to Warband thanks to the more severe limits on weapon options.

This.

Dear Taleworlds, please DO NOT remove weapons to supposedly stay true to history. Bannerlord is a game which people play for fun and variety of weapons to use adds to that! Besides if people want crossbows removed guess what? They can mod them out according to previous blogs.

 

[Cale]

Horse size isn't that relevant to the damage the rider can do. That depends more on the strength of his arms and thighs. Size does affect its ability to carry gear for extended periods of time, confers a height advantage and intimidates infantry more. The size of the horse is ultimately less important than its endurance and discipline though, as evidenced by the mongols conquering the world with extremely badass ponies.

You're right, Horse Size on its own isn't but training and specific breeding is. One of the innovations of the Normans was actually being able to force horses to charge directly into the face of a disciplined formation. I'm not sure exactly how they managed this (fairly brutal training methods I'd imagine, vaguely remember something about young horses being tied together in training) but prior to this cavalry was used largely to strike at the flanks or behind and cause panic so formations broke down...or else ignore the army completely and burn the baggage train behind them.

Even the Huns and mongols mostly wore down their opponents with arrows and only closed when any kind of unit cohesion etc was completely gone.

 

[Yaga]

I have a question for the developers.
The game developers, please tell me, will the game have the opportunity to climb a tree?
It is clear that you can not climb any tree. But if this is a large, mature tree, then it can accommodate archers.
Robbers can ambush the forest. An observer can climb a tree to look into the distance.
Of course, this is all relevant, if you change the trees for the better - I hope so.

For example, you can climb such a tree. It's an oak tree, it's in the Crimea and it's 800 years old. Pay attention to its trunk - as if it is not one tree but several beautiful trees.

Even in a large, old tree there may be a hollow. A man, an owl, or even a horse can hide in the hollow of a tree!
Do not believe me? See 

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[Varrak]

隐藏

I have a question for the developers.
The game developers, please tell me, will the game have the opportunity to climb a tree?
It is clear that you can not climb any tree. But if this is a large, mature tree, then it can accommodate archers.

Have to say that i like these trees in the screenshot so much, i also like lighting and shadow quality.

About climbing on trees, i think this would be done by mods 

 

[HUMMAN]

Yeah climbing is a good mechanic but not sure if wort time and effort. An ambush mechanic hiding from bushes etc. would satisfy me.

 

[kalarhan]

We could see a balance change being made to couched lances through mechanics rather than stats.

personally I would like to see heavy lancer cavalry be a very restrict resource. Keep it as a noble unit (so you can't train and upgrade peasants), hard to recruit and with a limited amount. Lets say that the kingdom starts with 500 knights (among all the nobles), and that it can train 50 a year (a example). If somehow you manage to lose them (as the king/marshal), or destroy them (as a enemy kingdom), that would mean it would take 10 years for them to get that strength back (assuming a normal campaign lasts like 30 years).

This kind of balance mechanic would allow the use of "god like" units (tanks), but with the caveat that losing them would weaken the kingdom and open a opportunity to attack it.

Think situations like when France lost their knights around the 100 years war. Training a knight was not a easy task (noble kid, from 7 to 20+ years old from page to squire to knight). Also a expensive thingy (weapons, armor and horse). So losing those elite units should hurt.

Another interesting mechanic for them would be their ego. Make them hard to control and order in a battle. There are many examples in history of battles where knights decided they would win the day, just to commit suicide and lose the battle 

Just one way (among others) to balance things. 

 

[The Bowman]

Ambushes wouldn't work as we imagine they would if the AI can detect every agent on the map, regardless of physical obstacles in their way. A spotting/fog of war mechanic would be very taxing in huge battles.

I can only think about scripted ambushes, like in Total War games, where an army marches on the road and the attackers get to choose where to spawn. I could be satisfied with that sort of implementation.

 

[Yaga]

We could see a balance change being made to couched lances through mechanics rather than stats.

personally I would like to see heavy lancer cavalry be a very restrict resource. Keep it as a noble unit (so you can't train and upgrade peasants), hard to recruit and with a limited amount. Lets say that the kingdom starts with 500 knights (among all the nobles), and that it can train 50 a year (a example). If somehow you manage to lose them (as the king/marshal), or destroy them (as a enemy kingdom), that would mean it would take 10 years for them to get that strength back (assuming a normal campaign lasts like 30 years).

This kind of balance mechanic would allow the use of "god like" units (tanks), but with the caveat that losing them would weaken the kingdom and open a opportunity to attack it.

Think situations like when France lost their knights around the 100 years war. Training a knight was not a easy task (noble kid, from 7 to 20+ years old from page to squire to knight). Also a expensive thingy (weapons, armor and horse). So losing those elite units should hurt.

Another interesting mechanic for them would be their ego. Make them hard to control and order in a battle. There are many examples in history of battles where knights decided they would win the day, just to commit suicide and lose the battle 

Just one way (among others) to balance things.

+1

I think in the game even much less than 500. Maybe 100 is enough?
And we need to improve the survival of knights.

 

[lolbash]

We could see a balance change being made to couched lances through mechanics rather than stats. It's possible that we'll see couched lances being more restricted on their maximum and minimum angles of attack, or better handling of multiple weapon hitboxes which would allow only the head of the lance to deal any significant damage. Both of these would definitely reduce the gimmicky-ness of couched lances in more meaningful ways than just juggling damage numbers around would, while simultaneously making them more realistic without reducing their power potential.

This please.

No nerfling lances, instead, provide more ways to fight against lances.

We hopefully have improved spears and pikes in bannerlord, and a better terrain generator, and a sergeant
system that should promote more tatical gameplay, so more flanking, formations, and the like, so hoefully calvary have more to consider than just charge into a groupe of people.

Here is a replication of the war spikes that a vietnamese general used to repel the Mongols that tried to invade Vietnam. (they failed miserably)

Maybe we can build "deployables" on the battlefield?

Glad they're erring on the side of inclusion when it comes to arms and armour. I was playing Viking Conquest and it's a pretty good example of how not to do the game, it's certainly "historically accurate" enough (although I have sincere misgivings about everyone and their brother packing a fustibalus), but the combat is also **** boring compared to Warband thanks to the more severe limits on weapon options.

This.

Dear Taleworlds, please DO NOT remove weapons to supposedly stay true to history. Bannerlord is a game which people play for fun and variety of weapons to use adds to that! Besides if people want crossbows removed guess what? They can mod them out according to previous blogs.

They are not removing them, dont worry. They repeatedly stated in the blog that the 2hander is now rarer and limited as a "hero weapon", whatever that means, but we can still have them.

Jesus Christ lolbash, they're not saying lances improved, theyre saying saddles improved, which allowed people to put more power into their lances without being knocked off their horses from the momentum.

http://www.classicalfencing.com/articles/shock.php

Come to think of it, that could be an interesting stat to add to horse  armor. Better saddles could grant bonuses to thrust attacks/ couched lance

I know, but I was specifically talking about this comment itself

While cantled saddles and stirrups are not prerequisites for couched lances they do enhance their effectiveness. Given the earlier setting of Bannerlord, I hope the damage inflicted by Warband’s couched lances has been significantly reduced. Contemporary armour is mail and scale, not plate - this needs to be balanced by the lower offensive power of older lances.

How many times are we going to have to go off topic? I am arguing against nerfing the couched lance to making it take 3 couched lances to kill someone.

 

[kalarhan]

I think in the game even much less than 500. Maybe 100 is enough?

we don't have army numbers yet. We have a rough idea of battle with ~700-800 agents (400x400), but we don't know how many soldiers a king can lead (300 or 1000), how many nobles and their army size.

500 was just a example, something along the lines of 10% of a entire kingdom manpower (king, marshal like noble, several nobles). And that includes the entire kingdom. Not 500 for the player.

 

[Yaga]

I think in the game even much less than 500. Maybe 100 is enough?

we don't have army numbers yet. We have a rough idea of battle with ~700-800 agents (400x400), but we don't know how many soldiers a king can lead (300 or 1000), how many nobles and their army size.

500 was just a example, something along the lines of 10% of a entire kingdom manpower (king, marshal like noble, several nobles). And that includes the entire kingdom. Not 500 for the player.

     
I thought so. The fact of the matter is that the knight was unique, but he was accompanied by a large detachment of various assistants. Together we will have a fairly large detachment.

 

[Do not look here]

The knights-per-party could also be limited in similar way Gekokujo handles samurais - they take two party spots instead of one to represent noble's personal servant. I'd like to see something along those lines implemented, your party size being affected by quality of troops, so if you want to field fifty knights you have to take into account hundred of bards, servants, cooks and camp followers that they'll drag with them and who'll only drain your food. Non-soldiers followers is generally something I'd like to see in M&B.

I like the idea of elite units being limited resource as well. We already know that at least some of top tier units will be recruitable only from NPCs and won't be part of normal troop tree.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

Moreover, the soldiers of northern Russia are somewhat similar to the Vikings. For example, Novgorod warriors.

that's because they were Vikings.

I know, but I was specifically talking about this comment itself

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While cantled saddles and stirrups are not prerequisites for couched lances they do enhance their effectiveness. Given the earlier setting of Bannerlord, I hope the damage inflicted by Warband’s couched lances has been significantly reduced. Contemporary armour is mail and scale, not plate - this needs to be balanced by the lower offensive power of older lances.

How many times are we going to have to go off topic? I am arguing against nerfing the couched lance to making it take 3 couched lances to kill someone.

Yes, genius, and then you started complaining about there being no evidence for lances being short/weaker/easier to break despite the comment you replied to verify obviously being about saddle technology. How many times do you have to go off topic? you say you know they were talking about saddles, yet then quote the comment that is talking about saddles and use it to justify your weird tangent about Lance construction. it makes no sense.

 

[lolbash]

I know, but I was specifically talking about this comment itself

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While cantled saddles and stirrups are not prerequisites for couched lances they do enhance their effectiveness. Given the earlier setting of Bannerlord, I hope the damage inflicted by Warband’s couched lances has been significantly reduced. Contemporary armour is mail and scale, not plate - this needs to be balanced by the lower offensive power of older lances.

How many times are we going to have to go off topic? I am arguing against nerfing the couched lance to making it take 3 couched lances to kill someone.

Yes, genius, and then you started complaining about there being no evidence for lances being short/weaker/easier to break despite the comment you replied to verify obviously being about saddle technology. How many times do you have to go off topic? you say you know they were talking about saddles, yet then quote the comment that is talking about saddles and use it to justify your weird tangent about Lance construction. it makes no sense.

隐藏

While cantled saddles and stirrups are not prerequisites for couched lances they do enhance their effectiveness. Given the earlier setting of Bannerlord, I hope the damage inflicted by Warband’s couched lances has been significantly reduced. Contemporary armour is mail and scale, not plate - this needs to be balanced by the lower offensive power of older lances.

Read the damn thread and this comment.

NPC99 is saying lances are weaker, and should be nerfed heavily because they take place in an earlier time in warband.

I find this ridiculous, and asked him for a source from a medieval expert to prove how lances in the 11th century were so much weaker than their 13th century counterpart

Literally none of you have sucessfully provided a source so far.

If I may ask, why the hell are you so agressive over nerfing lances? Why do you want to make it so humans suddenly can take 3 couched lances to their body?

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

reread the comment you posted yourself. he did not say Lances were weaker. He is saying they should do less damage because the saddle technology was less advanced. It's very plainly obvious. You are (and have been) asking for sources for a claim that nobody made in the first place.

if I may ask, why are you so aggressive over the terror of nerfing lances?

I didn't even suggest that I agreed they should be nerfed

 

[lolbash]

reread the comment you posted yourself. he did not say Lances were weaker. He is saying they should do less damage because the saddle technology was less advanced. It's very plainly obvious. You are (and have been) asking for sources for a claim that nobody made in the first place.

if I may ask, why are you so aggressive over the terror of nerfing lances?

I didn't even suggest that I agreed they should be nerfed

隐藏

You are (and have been) asking for sources for a claim that nobody made in the first place.

Or you can stop ignoring the existence of NPC99, and read his comment. Maybe I should stop using the spoiler tag and bold it out for you.

While cantled saddles and stirrups are not prerequisites for couched lances they do enhance their effectiveness. Given the earlier setting of Bannerlord, I hope the damage inflicted by Warband’s couched lances has been significantly reduced. Contemporary armour is mail and scale, not plate - this needs to be balanced by the lower offensive power of older lances.

Yes, someone did suggest that lances were somehow weaker.

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if I may ask, why are you so aggressive over the terror of nerfing lances?

I didn't even suggest that I agreed they should be nerfed

Maybe its because I dont want lances to be so useless in Bannerlord that no one wants to use them?.

Why the hell are you arguing with me if you are not siding with NPC99?

Jesus christ.

 

[Dest45]

He was asking them to be balanced according to the different armour. Since we won't be having plate, lances as they were in Warband would be pretty OP.

 

[Baltic Marauder]

Lances had less offensive power because saddles were worse. What about that is so hard to understand? No one is talking about halving or quartering the damage. Even bareback an experienced lancer would have more than enough grip to kill a moderately armored opponent. More than anything saddles reduce the amount of experience necessary to reach a minimum level of effectiveness.

Maybe change it so that a level 5 steppe bandit doesn't have the power to down a knight? I don't think anyone here is advocating a major nerf to heavy cavalry or cav in multiplayer

 

[NPC99]

http://wiki.eanswers.com/en/Cataphract

Apart from cataphracts, lances prior to medieval knights tended to be light as opposed to heavy lances. Lighter lances could also be used as javelins.

 

[lolbash]

http://wiki.eanswers.com/en/Cataphract

Apart from cataphracts, lances prior to medieval knights tended to be light as opposed to heavy lances. Lighter lances could also be used as javelins.

Thank you. Now I will step down and stop commenting like I promised.