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<p>They came from overseas, mercenaries and adventurers, speaking the tongues of many lands, taking the empire's silver to guard the frontiers against the unsubdued tribes of the interior. They took their name from one of their first warlords, Wilund the Bold - Valandion, in Calradic - and became known as the Vlandians. Their heavy cavalry, second to none, ran down the Emperor's foes from the Aserai wastes to the distant steppes. But the empire never had as much silver as it needed, and treasury officials soon learned that it could pay its mercenaries with land grants and titles. This was perhaps not the most far-sighted of policies. The Vlandians settled, married, planted farms, and built fortresses. It was not difficult, during the recent interregnum, for Osrac Iron-arm to declare himself king, independent in all but name. He seized the imperial capital of Baravenos and the lands along the coast, and that was how the west was lost to the empire.</p></br> [/parsehtml]Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/37
Dev Blog 30/11/17
- 主题发起人 Callum
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Glad they're erring on the side of inclusion when it comes to arms and armour. I was playing Viking Conquest and it's a pretty good example of how not to do the game, it's certainly "historically accurate" enough (although I have sincere misgivings about everyone and their brother packing a fustibalus), but the combat is also ****ing boring compared to Warband thanks to the more severe limits on weapon options.
lolbash
Master Knight
NPC99 说:lolbash 说:kalarhan 说:Looter 说:
the point, in case you missed it, is that over time the art of wars evolves. Weapons, armor, tactics, training, materials used, technology, and so on, they all come together in a perpetual race between attack and defense.
for lances, as a example, is the case of why someone started using them, for what situations they were useful, what characteristics involved a soldier using one, what kind of defense he was trying to break, and if it worked.
light cavalry with a spear is deadly on some situations. Heavy cavalry with heavy armor and a lance on others. Pick your weapons and tactics to defeat your current enemy, not because they look cool
I simply cannot see how you can improve a long stick with a bladed end in the span of only 200 hundred years.
Im literally opening a hole in my argument for you to shoot down.
Can I have a source where lances were shown to be significantly weaker in the 11th century compared to a lance in the 13th century?
Stop dodging around the damn bush. If you can do this, I'll step down and stop arguing with you on how we should be nerfing lances.
Sebidee 说:
We still have not heard from the other factions yet. I think we should give it a little time.
Not to mention the gameplay is significantly changed.
The map is bigger, and now we have a sergeant system, and the AI can use formations and tatics now. This will definately spice up the cluster**** that is warband right now.
Tactics and equipment change over time.
Cataphracts in secure horned saddles were effective heavy/shock cavalry despite the absence of stirrups. However they mainly used their lances double-handed and most of those lances were supported by chains attached to their horses. A level of sophistication unmatched in the west at that time.
The tips of these lances were bronze or iron, not steel.
Ok but why should that mean lances should be taking a huge nerf?
And where is the source?
lolbash 说:
where is the source about a low-fantasy fictional world that describes the difference in technology and war tactics from the year ~1000 to 1257 (on that fictional low-fantasy universe)
devs can choose to make lances stronger than Warband ones (and explain that by some catastrophe that will see the technology and population decline between the two games); they can make them equal (and somehow find a way to balance how a faction from the 12th century on Earth could fight a faction from the 6th century); they can use examples from our history and make them less effective. They are the gods of that universe. They make the rules.
now if you are still talking about our universe, which serves as inspiration for MB series on about 1000 years span in time, you should study how war technology, tactics, materials, and all that changes over time. That is your answer. You can, of course, even use Youtube for that.
Cheers
lolbash 说:NPC99 说:lolbash 说:kalarhan 说:Looter 说:
the point, in case you missed it, is that over time the art of wars evolves. Weapons, armor, tactics, training, materials used, technology, and so on, they all come together in a perpetual race between attack and defense.
for lances, as a example, is the case of why someone started using them, for what situations they were useful, what characteristics involved a soldier using one, what kind of defense he was trying to break, and if it worked.
light cavalry with a spear is deadly on some situations. Heavy cavalry with heavy armor and a lance on others. Pick your weapons and tactics to defeat your current enemy, not because they look cool
I simply cannot see how you can improve a long stick with a bladed end in the span of only 200 hundred years.
Im literally opening a hole in my argument for you to shoot down.
Can I have a source where lances were shown to be significantly weaker in the 11th century compared to a lance in the 13th century?
Stop dodging around the damn bush. If you can do this, I'll step down and stop arguing with you on how we should be nerfing lances.
Sebidee 说:
We still have not heard from the other factions yet. I think we should give it a little time.
Not to mention the gameplay is significantly changed.
The map is bigger, and now we have a sergeant system, and the AI can use formations and tatics now. This will definately spice up the cluster**** that is warband right now.
Tactics and equipment change over time.
Cataphracts in secure horned saddles were effective heavy/shock cavalry despite the absence of stirrups. However they mainly used their lances double-handed and most of those lances were supported by chains attached to their horses. A level of sophistication unmatched in the west at that time.
The tips of these lances were bronze or iron, not steel.
Ok but why should that mean lances should be taking a huge nerf?
And where is the source?
http://www.academia.edu/7781595/Couched_Lance_and_Mounted_Shock_Combat_in_the_East_The_Georgian_Experience
Trooperpilot3
Recruit
But.... will they have milk and cream? This is a prequel after all.
lolbash
Master Knight
NPC99 说:lolbash 说:NPC99 说:lolbash 说:kalarhan 说:Looter 说:
the point, in case you missed it, is that over time the art of wars evolves. Weapons, armor, tactics, training, materials used, technology, and so on, they all come together in a perpetual race between attack and defense.
for lances, as a example, is the case of why someone started using them, for what situations they were useful, what characteristics involved a soldier using one, what kind of defense he was trying to break, and if it worked.
light cavalry with a spear is deadly on some situations. Heavy cavalry with heavy armor and a lance on others. Pick your weapons and tactics to defeat your current enemy, not because they look cool
I simply cannot see how you can improve a long stick with a bladed end in the span of only 200 hundred years.
Im literally opening a hole in my argument for you to shoot down.
Can I have a source where lances were shown to be significantly weaker in the 11th century compared to a lance in the 13th century?
Stop dodging around the damn bush. If you can do this, I'll step down and stop arguing with you on how we should be nerfing lances.
Sebidee 说:
We still have not heard from the other factions yet. I think we should give it a little time.
Not to mention the gameplay is significantly changed.
The map is bigger, and now we have a sergeant system, and the AI can use formations and tatics now. This will definately spice up the cluster**** that is warband right now.
Tactics and equipment change over time.
Cataphracts in secure horned saddles were effective heavy/shock cavalry despite the absence of stirrups. However they mainly used their lances double-handed and most of those lances were supported by chains attached to their horses. A level of sophistication unmatched in the west at that time.
The tips of these lances were bronze or iron, not steel.
Ok but why should that mean lances should be taking a huge nerf?
And where is the source?
http://www.academia.edu/7781595/Couched_Lance_and_Mounted_Shock_Combat_in_the_East_The_Georgian_Experience
I skimmed through the whole thing, and there is absolutely no mention of how lances evolved to be able to dish more damage in a time span of over 200 years.
The PDF itself speaks more about how many different countries used lances and how they were used on the battlefield.
Im sorry but this is not a good source and I dont see why we should be nerfing lances because of this.
kalarhan 说:lolbash 说:
where is the source about a low-fantasy fictional world that describes the difference in technology and war tactics from the year ~1000 to 1257 (on that fictional low-fantasy universe)
devs can choose to make lances stronger than Warband ones (and explain that by some catastrophe that will see the technology and population decline between the two games); they can make them equal (and somehow find a way to balance how a faction from the 12th century on Earth could fight a faction from the 6th century); they can use examples from our history and make them less effective. They are the gods of that universe. They make the rules.
now if you are still talking about our universe, which serves as inspiration for MB series on about 1000 years span in time, you should study how war technology, tactics, materials, and all that changes over time. That is your answer. You can, of course, even use Youtube for that.
Cheers
TLDR: You're too lazy to prove me wrong and instead tell me to go on youtube.
Cheers.
lolbash 说:
lol (someone is wrong in the Internet, call the media!)
you are still insisting on that for some reason, even tho I (personally) never said anything on lances being weaker or stronger (altho I see and agree with #NPC99 remarks), if you read the posts again you will notice I was making fun of the absurdity of the initial post. But that is in the past.
Notice also that your premise is false. The 200 number, that I assume is talking about Warband x Bannerlord, has no direct relation to our world. In our world you would need to check difference between ~9th to ~14-15th century, depending on how devs end up making the troops (we still don't know). Which could mean a difference up to ~500 years. And that includes everything, not just the weapon design. What made a knight, what kind of material, tech and resources were needed. How many years took to train one. How many you would find in a country (50, 1000, 10000?), what would be the impact of losing a bunch of them at the same time (looking at you France), and all that. It is not just the weapon. Is the soldier using it, and much more. Give a lance to a peasant on a small horse and it will not make him a knight. Hence why you could learn a bit more about it on a good book, or Youtube.
Cheers
I don't believe that human race has created the art of developing lances. Dudes, it's just a stick with a blade on it. Ok, when the matter is swords I agree. The art of swordmaking has improved over the years, but lances... Come on.
that's why we must upgrade our troops using experience points...
kalarhan 说:It is not just the weapon. Is the soldier using it, and much more. Give a lance to a peasant on a small horse and it will not make him a knight.
Cheers
that's why we must upgrade our troops using experience points...
lolbash
Master Knight
kalarhan 说:lolbash 说:
lol (someone is wrong in the Internet, call the media!)
you are still insisting on that for some reason, even tho I (personally) never said anything on lances being weaker or stronger (altho I see and agree with #NPC99 remarks), if you read the posts again you will notice I was making fun of the absurdity of the initial post. But that is in the past.
Notice also that your premise is false. The 200 number, that I assume is talking about Warband x Bannerlord, has no direct relation to our world. In our world you would need to check difference between ~9th to ~14-15th century, depending on how devs end up making the troops (we still don't know). Which could mean a difference up to ~500 years. And that includes everything, not just the weapon design. What made a knight, what kind of material, tech and resources were needed. How many years took to train one. How many you would find in a country (50, 1000, 10000?), what would be the impact of losing a bunch of them at the same time (looking at you France), and all that. It is not just the weapon. Is the soldier using it, and much more. Give a lance to a peasant on a small horse and it will not make him a knight. Hence why you could learn a bit more about it on a good book, or Youtube.
Cheers
Do you even know what we are arguing about?
Heres the comment that started this discussion. Read it
NPC99 说:
Done?
Now explain what that garble you wrote has to do with nerfing lances and why we should be nerfing lances and calvary because of it.
Now this is an idea I support. I don't know if is planned but if not then I would seriously support it.Horik6697 说:
Guys...this is a fantasy world. There's no point to argue if a lance back in the day was just as good 200 years before, they could just say whatever they see fit to justify the lore, game balance and personal preferences.
But to be honest, the lore concerns me a bit...I'd rather have them including as much equipment as they see fit(and no,it doesn't mean it would be ok to include bazookas or dragon skin armours). That also means more resources for modders, not to mention that we will have animations for weapons like 2 handed swords. If you want them out, it means someone will have to make an animation for it in a future mod, and I take it it's not an easy task.
It's nice they are putting some effort to improve the lore, and I'm all for it, as long as it won't be a limiting factor. After reading the blog, I had the impression they had to excuse themselves for including the crossbows and 2-handed sword in their fantasy setting?? If this is an issue, I suppose there will be a good explanation to justify the lack of trebuchets, ballistas and battering rams in Warband?
But to be honest, the lore concerns me a bit...I'd rather have them including as much equipment as they see fit(and no,it doesn't mean it would be ok to include bazookas or dragon skin armours). That also means more resources for modders, not to mention that we will have animations for weapons like 2 handed swords. If you want them out, it means someone will have to make an animation for it in a future mod, and I take it it's not an easy task.
It's nice they are putting some effort to improve the lore, and I'm all for it, as long as it won't be a limiting factor. After reading the blog, I had the impression they had to excuse themselves for including the crossbows and 2-handed sword in their fantasy setting?? If this is an issue, I suppose there will be a good explanation to justify the lack of trebuchets, ballistas and battering rams in Warband?
We could see a balance change being made to couched lances through mechanics rather than stats. It's possible that we'll see couched lances being more restricted on their maximum and minimum angles of attack, or better handling of multiple weapon hitboxes which would allow only the head of the lance to deal any significant damage. Both of these would definitely reduce the gimmicky-ness of couched lances in more meaningful ways than just juggling damage numbers around would, while simultaneously making them more realistic without reducing their power potential.
Baltic Marauder
Veteran
Jesus Christ lolbash, they're not saying lances improved, theyre saying saddles improved, which allowed people to put more power into their lances without being knocked off their horses from the momentum.
http://www.classicalfencing.com/articles/shock.php
Come to think of it, that could be an interesting stat to add to horse armor. Better saddles could grant bonuses to thrust attacks/ couched lance
http://www.classicalfencing.com/articles/shock.php
Come to think of it, that could be an interesting stat to add to horse armor. Better saddles could grant bonuses to thrust attacks/ couched lance
Two handed swords and crossbows. I understand people being used to what they had in Warband (which was quite a mix of early and late medieval gear), and asking for it to be in Bannerlord again. But such people are probably not thinking of how the game will look and feel. If we have all the same weapons and armour as Warband, how is the setting supposed to feel different? It's more likely to look and play like a high medieval game set in the wrong era, if it goes down that path.
On the lance issue, remember that horses were also part of the equation. One of the reasons mounted, heavy, lance-bearing cavalry did not exist two hundred years before it actually appeared was that they hadn't bred war mounts large and strong enough, I think. But it's the same issue as above. You can do it if you like, it just jars and ensures that combat balance will not change from Warband.
I like the description of the Vlandians. I also think their king looks like Aragorn. But this time I don't have a problem with it.
I understand people being used to what they had in Warband (which was quite a mix of early and late medieval gear), and asking for it to be in Bannerlord again. But such people are probably not thinking of how the game will look and feel. If we have all the same weapons and armour as Warband, how is the setting supposed to feel different? It's more likely to look and play like a high medieval game set in the wrong era, if it goes down that path.On the lance issue, remember that horses were also part of the equation. One of the reasons mounted, heavy, lance-bearing cavalry did not exist two hundred years before it actually appeared was that they hadn't bred war mounts large and strong enough, I think. But it's the same issue as above. You can do it if you like, it just jars and ensures that combat balance will not change from Warband.
I like the description of the Vlandians. I also think their king looks like Aragorn. But this time I don't have a problem with it.
LordCanute
Banned
Release. The. Game.
Baltic Marauder
Veteran
Horse size isn't that relevant to the damage the rider can do. That depends more on the strength of his arms and thighs. Size does affect its ability to carry gear for extended periods of time, confers a height advantage and intimidates infantry more. The size of the horse is ultimately less important than its endurance and discipline though, as evidenced by the mongols conquering the world with extremely badass ponies.
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