Dev Blog 26/09/19

[parsehtml]<p><img class="frame" src="https://www.taleworlds.com/Images/News/blog_post_107_taleworldswebsite.jpg" alt="" width="575" height="290" /></p> <p>In this week’s blog, we will be concluding our miniseries of blog posts on sieges by discussing the assault phase, with a particular focus on how the game’s AI evaluates and reacts to unfolding events. </p></br> [/parsehtml]Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/127

 

[FBohler]

Sounds a bit entitled even....

 

[iamastrangeloop]

I know this sounds kind of harsh and pessimistic but I can't shake this feeling.

 

[BayBear]

Spoiler

A lot of those are really subjective....

Bannerlord is clearly an improvement over Warband in most respects and the parts that need polishing (i.e infantry combat and some bits of AI) are being polished with the beta testing.

I agree with the first part of that sentence, but not really the second part. You mention infantry combat (which in itself a big part of the game), but it is combat in general that is a problem, and particularly the combat between infantry and cavalry, as well as essential bits of AI. Taleworlds told us they tried letting infantry make good use of their spears, and it made it too hard for cavalry- so they have made infantry make bad choices. That is not a small issue! The cavalry runs infantry over, horses barely suffer any penalty for ramming into something so infantry cannot stop them unless they run into scenery or the infantry manages to get a near-perfect polearm stab in the chest of the horse...I cannot be bothered to go into everything, but the problems are not minor.

More worrying is that there is no sign of the major problems going away. I am in the beta, and know now what other beta players have been talking about for so long. No offence, but have any of you 3 (strangeloop, Baybear or FBohler) played the beta? It sounds as if you are being complacent, imagining that the beta will unfailingly iron out any problems.

No offense taken.. we are all on the same side here. I have not played the beta yet; however I have spent a considerable amount of time watching gameplay. I know the combat in its current beta state is not acceptable. I continue to believe that Taleworlds will polish infantry combat and overall balance until they reach the sweet spot. Bannerlord is only in version 0.2.1. Warband’s combat took time to perfect and so will Bannerlord’s. My hope is for y’all to let go of anxiety and have faith that Taleworlds has the best intentions for their almost decade long project.

Spoiler

If you thought unmodded Warband was mediocre at best and clearly you think that Bannerlord is not going to be good then why do you spend so much time here in the forum? Just curious.

I don't hate mount and blade or bannerlord, but after playing this game to death and making a total overhaul mod, I'm just frustrated with how sloppy taleworlds is sometimes. Warband has a tonne of fundamental gameplay problems, many of which make the game a pain to enjoy past the first few hours into a campaign. And now Bannerlord is making all the same mistakes as the previous game, plus an extra helping of utterly incomprehensible game design choices which nobody asked for and nobody (in the beta) likes.

What makes this so much worse is that most of these issues are things I could have fixed myself. For instance in warband there is a battlefield morale system which straight up doesn't work, and it also has a huge impact on performance. It either wasn't prototyped or it was just coded in a rush. I prototyped one myself and in a few days had a much better system than the original. I was astounded. This is like a major gameplay mechanic which doesn't work. And I have no training as a developer, I'm just some guy.
The game is full of stuff like this, to the point where the diplomacy mod for warband is like 90% code fixes and is the baseline for almost every mod. It makes me less and less enthusiastic about bannerlord when I see stuff like this which was unaddressed even up until the final warband patch this time last year.

I really want to like bannerlord, and I guess I stick around in the hope that they will listen to some of the endless paragraphs of detailed criticism they are getting in the beta threads. But at this point I really can't see the game being anywhere close to even my lowest expectations back in 2013. I know this sounds kind of harsh and pessimistic but I can't shake this feeling.

I feel ya man, I can only imagine the amount of time and dedication you have spent towards the game. I know you only want the best for the game. I appreciate your troubleshooting talents and always learn a thing or two from what you post. I just hope we stay away from the bitterness and contempt that frustration brings.

I love showing people different perspective and how seemingly simple matters may not always be as they seem. The only way to find out why people make the decisions they do is to spend a day in their shoes. Unless we join their team we can only accept what they put on our table and make suggestions for the future.

 

[John the Roleplayer]

Very well spoken, BayBear. Good man.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

They have Cossacks(not a huge fan of),  STALKER(used to be good but too old now), Metro especially last game( if Metro is their M&B, Exodus became their Bannerlord)

Metro Last Light is their Bannerlord, Metro Exodus is their M&B 3 that may just never come out.
As for STALKER 2 , its release date is 2021, so it may just release before Bannerlord's full release too.
 

To my knowledge last night sold 1.5 million copies while M&B 1 as a whole sold 10 million.
Of course for Exodus it is too early to speak.

Edit: I didnt put it into account that first M&B are sold in a low price. So we have to consider that too.

I knew about STALKER 2 btw. It is on my track list. Fingers crossed. Not anything but I loved the atmosphere of the Shadow of Chernobyl. In a monthly computer game magazines cd they gave it for free once.
Because I was similiar with more linear games, at first I was frustrated(also given the fact that I was a child so no English also didnt make things easier in an rpg). Then uninstalling and installing few times throughout years I started to really enjoy it. I mean those buildings and that loneliness feeling… It was so strong.

Few months ago I bought it on steam just for nostalgia but man it didnt look aged well.
Tbh I dont expect sequel to be good I am sorry because thats usually what happens when a huge time gap happens after the first game but not because of the time but I heard most of the original developers left to develope Metro series. So I dont know if they will manage it. For that 2021, I expect it to be delayed few times. But regardless of how much they can screw up, it will definitely be better than Fallout4&76. Because they probably know they have to make a huge hit to be back in the game with this one.

For me STALKER is gameplay wise more precious than Metro. Metro is just a typical fps game. Nothing innovative. STALKER on the other hand, it was an open World rpg fps game set on the best atmosphere for a video game ever. Only Fallout can be said similiar to it but it is WAAAY better than fallout, I mean fallout is like a cartoon compared to STALKER. You really felt you are an alone desperate scum walking on a dangerous World in STALKER. That monster that lived in waaay inside abondoned buildings basements or in deepest tunnels that gave you a heart attack from miles away… UGH I remember I WAS ALSO having a heart attack in front of my computer.

I never even bought any Fallout game except Fallout 1(yes 1, 2, tactics dont have that cartoon feeling that much). If its fanbase was aware of STALKER(which they will be with the release of STALKER 2) and also considering after F76 fiasco, STALKER would own all of its fanbase.

I heard there are some cults in Ukraine that were so effected by the game's atmosphere that they clothed themselves like stalkers(with those gas masks, bags etc) and now live in Chernobyl, they literally break into prohibited places.

 

[Piconi]

Spoiler

They have Cossacks(not a huge fan of),  STALKER(used to be good but too old now), Metro especially last game( if Metro is their M&B, Exodus became their Bannerlord)

Metro Last Light is their Bannerlord, Metro Exodus is their M&B 3 that may just never come out.
As for STALKER 2 , its release date is 2021, so it may just release before Bannerlord's full release too.
 

[...]
Tbh I dont expect sequel to be good I am sorry because thats usually what happens when a huge time gap happens after the first game [...]

Shhhhh.....there might be a Bannerlord developer lurking here and get offended ...

[...] but not because of the time but I heard most of the original developers left to develope Metro series. So I dont know if they will manage it. [...]

Phewww....nice save 

 

[AmateurHetman]

@NUQAR'S Kentucky "Nuqar" James XXL.
How do you know if the same problems exist in Bannerlord? Do we know if the moral system is as shallow as the one in warband?

I’m hoping the game isn't as bad/unimproved as some speculate. It would be a terrible shame.

 

[DanAngleland]

When talking about the morale system, he was just giving an example of problems in Warband, Hetman.

 

[AmateurHetman]

When talking about the morale system, he was just giving an example of problems in Warband, Hetman.

Thank you, I understand. I suppose I should have asked what specific mistakes are being made again.

 

[JustinTime49]

If you thought unmodded Warband was mediocre at best and clearly you think that Bannerlord is not going to be good then why do you spend so much time here in the forum? Just curious.

I don't hate mount and blade or bannerlord, but after playing this game to death and making a total overhaul mod, I'm just frustrated with how sloppy taleworlds is sometimes. Warband has a tonne of fundamental gameplay problems, many of which make the game a pain to enjoy past the first few hours into a campaign. And now Bannerlord is making all the same mistakes as the previous game, plus an extra helping of utterly incomprehensible game design choices which nobody asked for and nobody (in the beta) likes.

What makes this so much worse is that most of these issues are things I could have fixed myself. For instance in warband there is a battlefield morale system which straight up doesn't work, and it also has a huge impact on performance. It either wasn't prototyped or it was just coded in a rush. I prototyped one myself and in a few days had a much better system than the original. I was astounded. This is like a major gameplay mechanic which doesn't work. And I have no training as a developer, I'm just some guy.
The game is full of stuff like this, to the point where the diplomacy mod for warband is like 90% code fixes and is the baseline for almost every mod. It makes me less and less enthusiastic about bannerlord when I see stuff like this which was unaddressed even up until the final warband patch this time last year.

I really want to like bannerlord, and I guess I stick around in the hope that they will listen to some of the endless paragraphs of detailed criticism they are getting in the beta threads. But at this point I really can't see the game being anywhere close to even my lowest expectations back in 2013. I know this sounds kind of harsh and pessimistic but I can't shake this feeling.

Ik this is way late but i'm in the same boat as you(minus modding experience.) I've joined the forums very late but have been a fan playing the demo version of the regular M&B many many years ago.

I think one of the big issues here is IIRC that(like you said) Taleworlds studio is placed right next to a college or university which is where they hire their manpower. No offense to any of the devs, but they are still in the minor leagues, trying to satisfy a large community after the success of such a simple yet fabulous game. With the multiplayer changes which even after MAJOR backlash TW have decided to commit towards, I don't see many players sticking around like they did for Warband.

Singleplayer Native Warband simply dosen't hold up today. Like you said with diplomacy fixing the game, once you play it it is so objectively better than Native that you cringe to see the feature removed or just straight up broken when revisiting Native or Native based mods. I fear the same will happen with Bannerlord but A LOT faster due to easier modding tools and a larger experienced modding community. It is possible to suspect that many will turn to a modded overhaul that pleases the community rather than the actual Native game because of the mechanics the devs have decided to go with.

A few examples are:
- classes
- horses
- AI behaviour
- Formations
- Banners

And then there are the lads who say people who criticize are entitled and whatnot, but should realize(especially with the announcement of EA in full price) that we are going to be customers.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but ontop of some features being better in warband than they are in bannerlord, if we go ahead and compare some main gameplay features such as formations or AI behaviour in bannerlord to warband mods, i'd say that PBoD is simply superior in every aspect and brainy bots is a challenging submod to use in any module.

Bannerlord, especially after all these years in developement, should not rely on modders like it did in warband to MAKE or FIX the game.

 

[Rackie]

If you thought unmodded Warband was mediocre at best and clearly you think that Bannerlord is not going to be good then why do you spend so much time here in the forum? Just curious.

I don't hate mount and blade or bannerlord, but after playing this game to death and making a total overhaul mod, I'm just frustrated with how sloppy taleworlds is sometimes. Warband has a tonne of fundamental gameplay problems, many of which make the game a pain to enjoy past the first few hours into a campaign. And now Bannerlord is making all the same mistakes as the previous game, plus an extra helping of utterly incomprehensible game design choices which nobody asked for and nobody (in the beta) likes.

What makes this so much worse is that most of these issues are things I could have fixed myself. For instance in warband there is a battlefield morale system which straight up doesn't work, and it also has a huge impact on performance. It either wasn't prototyped or it was just coded in a rush. I prototyped one myself and in a few days had a much better system than the original. I was astounded. This is like a major gameplay mechanic which doesn't work. And I have no training as a developer, I'm just some guy.
The game is full of stuff like this, to the point where the diplomacy mod for warband is like 90% code fixes and is the baseline for almost every mod. It makes me less and less enthusiastic about bannerlord when I see stuff like this which was unaddressed even up until the final warband patch this time last year.

I really want to like bannerlord, and I guess I stick around in the hope that they will listen to some of the endless paragraphs of detailed criticism they are getting in the beta threads. But at this point I really can't see the game being anywhere close to even my lowest expectations back in 2013. I know this sounds kind of harsh and pessimistic but I can't shake this feeling.

Ik this is way late but i'm in the same boat as you(minus modding experience.) I've joined the forums very late but have been a fan playing the demo version of the regular M&B many many years ago.

I think one of the big issues here is IIRC that(like you said) Taleworlds studio is placed right next to a college or university which is where they hire their manpower. No offense to any of the devs, but they are still in the minor leagues, trying to satisfy a large community after the success of such a simple yet fabulous game. With the multiplayer changes which even after MAJOR backlash TW have decided to commit towards, I don't see many players sticking around like they did for Warband.

Singleplayer Native Warband simply dosen't hold up today. Like you said with diplomacy fixing the game, once you play it it is so objectively better than Native that you cringe to see the feature removed or just straight up broken when revisiting Native or Native based mods. I fear the same will happen with Bannerlord but A LOT faster due to easier modding tools and a larger experienced modding community. It is possible to suspect that many will turn to a modded overhaul that pleases the community rather than the actual Native game because of the mechanics the devs have decided to go with.

A few examples are:
- classes
- horses
- AI behaviour
- Formations
- Banners

And then there are the lads who say people who criticize are entitled and whatnot, but should realize(especially with the announcement of EA in full price) that we are going to be customers.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but ontop of some features being better in warband than they are in bannerlord, if we go ahead and compare some main gameplay features such as formations or AI behaviour in bannerlord to warband mods, i'd say that PBoD is simply superior in every aspect and brainy bots is a challenging submod to use in any module.

Bannerlord, especially after all these years in developement, should not rely on modders like it did in warband to MAKE or FIX the game.

Classes? Wdym?
Horses?
AI? I think Bannerlord's ai is pretty good, not at all as easy as Warbands especially when it's a group against you.
Formations could get some improvement I agree, but not something huge, they have already done decently in Bannerlord.
Banners, well this might be different for everyone, but I do like how I believe it will be in Bannerlord (similiar to create your own banner/kingdom mods for Warband). I don't think you should draw your banner yourself or something, the only thing I didn't like in Warband was that you could only choose a banner that some other lord had.

 

[NewTrain]

sorry if this has been answered already i haven't been up to date with the news
are swing animations set in stone? is there no plans on improving it? or will there be progression system where our character will get better swing animations?

 

[Terco_Viejo]

[snip 100% agree]

[snip 100% agree]
Bannerlord, especially after all these years in developement, should not rely on modders like it did in warband to MAKE or FIX the game.

A great truth has been told here

 

[LeChat]

[snip 100% agree]

[snip 100% agree]
Bannerlord, especially after all these years in developement, should not rely on modders like it did in warband to MAKE or FIX the game.

Did they say they should ?

 

[Nordous]

And where is the new blog?

 

[Ford Perfect]

And where is the new blog?

It's once every two weeks now, so this Thursday it comes out

 

[FBohler]

[snip 100% agree]

[snip 100% agree]
Bannerlord, especially after all these years in developement, should not rely on modders like it did in warband to MAKE or FIX the game.

A great truth has been told here

Maybe this is the whole reason why it's taking so long.

TaleWorlds has no experience on releasing full games 

 

[Khraen]

Dear Callum!

I understand that you are getting tired of all the nagging about the beta keys, but could you perhaps include some information about it in the next dev. blog?
To be concrete, I am wondering about this: Which groups of players have received keys so far, and what changes have you done
to the game after the beta testing started?
Looking forward to the next update!

 

[JustinTime49]

Classes? Wdym?
Horses?
AI? I think Bannerlord's ai is pretty good, not at all as easy as Warbands especially when it's a group against you.
Formations could get some improvement I agree, but not something huge, they have already done decently in Bannerlord.
Banners, well this might be different for everyone, but I do like how I believe it will be in Bannerlord (similiar to create your own banner/kingdom mods for Warband). I don't think you should draw your banner yourself or something, the only thing I didn't like in Warband was that you could only choose a banner that some other lord had.

I assume that you haven't seen many gameplay/ threads or played the game as of yet. If so correct me.

Classes: there is a huge debate on the implementation of classes which replaces the old currency system. MANY of the forum users are against the change due to restrictions. Some classes are just so worthless, why pick rabble or peasant when you have access to knights and heavy lancers. 3-1 lives just dosen't cut choosing a literal peasant with a literal sickle. It is neither cool or attractive, which is what made warbands progression system so rewarding.

Horses: even if you are a good Inf soldier, a horseman just has so much power over you. Especially WITH the class system where you can be a knight on round 1, the hp of horses as well as their knockdown abilities are just a bit too powerful, especially in Captain mode where the foot soldier AI is braindead(its a feature).

Spoiler

This is here to stay!

AI and formations: I am going to refer to SP AI here. While the AI overall is superior than warband Native, it is arguably inferior than warband mods. Once again, take Pbod(pre battle and deployement) submod as an example. In battle, there is the implementation of formations, and these formations actually hold formation unlike in bannerlord where they break it to engage the nearest enemy, as well as bug out by holding a formation(shieldwall) which causes them to walk into battle in a scattered broken line.

Banners: "Similar to create your own banner/kingdom mods for Warband", where did you hear that, if that is the case then great! But the reason for the controversy is rather the banners themselves. You would be hard pressed to distinguish the differences between clans in battle due to every single banner sharing the same background and sigil colour. There is no uniqueness other than the sigils, and considering banner in the name of the game, their implementation is rather lackluster, and because of the set colour palette, rather inferior to warband and its mods.

Spoiler

 

[Kortze26]

what changes have you done to the game after the beta testing started?
Looking forward to the next update!

Here's a link to the forum list of bug fixes.
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,385489.0.html