Dev Blog 21/02/19

[parsehtml]<p><img class="frame" src="https://www.taleworlds.com/Images/News/blog_post_78_taleworldswebsite.jpg" alt="" width="575" height="290" /></p> <p>Mount & Blade games have always primarily focused on the core gameplay mechanics over the visual appeal of the game world. And while this is something which remains true for Bannerlord, we have worked extensively on improving the overall visual quality of the game with the aim of making the experience more immersive and enjoyable for players. In this week’s blog, we would like to talk about one of the improvements we are currently working on, which will help to bring battles to life and will give players a real sense of the gritty and brutal nature of warfare.</p></br> [/parsehtml]Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/98

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Modders aren't magicians and I think it's harmful to think like that. If a game is ugly to begin with then it will take much longer to redo all those assets to prevent the whole thing looking incoherent (warband has something like 500 textures and a similar number of models). Contrary to what most people say, games are never just a framework for modders. Mods are usually just expansions of the core gameplay loop and aesthetic of the base game.
Warband was part of the last generation of games which could be modded by a layman. The days of editing textures in paint.net are for the most part over, so full graphical overhauls are going to be much less common in bannerlord.

 

[fadohacolu]

Not to mention "Mods will fix it" is not an excuse for the devs. Technically, mods could fix just about any game. I've made mods for the older ES games, and it was far easier back then, but still required a huge amount of work, and I never even dipped my toes into anything more than a few retextures. It's not really a good idea to take modders and their work for granted, especially as games become more advanced.

And, I've probably said this in half my posts already, but I'll say it again: graphics matter to potential buyers. You or I, as hardcore fans, might not mind the graphics as they stand, but that's pretty anecdotal. People who have not played or heard of M&B will be more likely to pass the game over if it looks bad to them. Which, in comparison to modern games, it probably will. This is a concern about the lifespan of the game and the possibility of getting more installments, DLC, support, w/e in the future. The hardcore fans alone may not be a big enough base for future development.

 

[578]

Modders aren't magicians and I think it's harmful to think like that. If a game is ugly to begin with then it will take much longer to redo all those assets to prevent the whole thing looking incoherent (warband has something like 500 textures and a similar number of models). Contrary to what most people say, games are never just a framework for modders. Mods are usually just expansions of the core gameplay loop and aesthetic of the base game.
Warband was part of the last generation of games which could be modded by a layman. The days of editing textures in paint.net are for the most part over, so full graphical overhauls are going to be much less common in bannerlord.

I have never said that I want Bannerlord to come out and be broken and modders to fix it and you are correct that this mindset is harmful. But I do not promote that, at all. What I am saying is that modders will always make better graphics, be it textures, ENB inputs, etc. Because modders are not afraid to risk. I bet TW can make amazing textures at great resolutions but people with medium PCs hold them back from it, like every other company. This is what I am trying to say, I do not want TW to get lazy, sorry if what I wrote was misunderstood. Magic was more of a compliment to many great modders, rather than talking about literal magic or any overexaggerated expectations.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I made a post about this a while ago: bigger textures and higher polygon models do not necessarily look good, while the best looking professional stuff is also the best optimised. The gulf between an average modder and an average professional 3d modeller is a lot bigger now than it was in 2010 and there are very few people around on the forums right now who could surpass the current bannerlord assets in quality, despite all my criticisms of the latter. 3d modelling is now more specialised than its ever been. Ever wondered why there are so few overhaul mods for more recent games?

 

[578]

I made a post about this a while ago: bigger textures and higher polygon models do not necessarily look good, while the best looking professional stuff is also the best optimised. The gulf between an average modder and an average professional 3d modeller is a lot bigger now than it was in 2010 and there are very few people around on the forums right now who could surpass the current bannerlord assets in quality, despite all my criticisms of the latter. 3d modelling is now more specialised than its ever been. Ever wondered why there are so few overhaul mods for more recent games?

As far as I know most recent games mean also more advanced technology, and if developers themselves do not give the tools it seems hard for me to do a mod the proper way. Also I have faith in the community so far, I am sure they will adapt but Bannerlord will see a big wave of players. Many trailers and gameplay videos from official sources have over 1million views including one I was watching again the other day which had 3 millions something. I am sure it will be big enough, maybe not skyrim big, but definitely large enough to attract modders. 3D modelling and animation in general always was a pain in the ass, I started downloading mods for the first time for Oblivion. 

 

[RoboSenshi]

All this talk about modders. Let's hope there are still talented modders around when the game is released. Or rather Modders willing to create for BL. Lol we just assume that when BL is out we'll get a flood of thousands of Modders old and new creating all sorts of things. The modding community may never be as diverse or vibrant as it once was for WB. That's on TW imo. So it's up to the devs to add as much essential content in the base game as they can. We shouldn't give them a pass and pawn their responsibilities on the community. Hopefully I'm just saying bull**** and we get 10 full conversations after a week 

Well that was pretty ****ing lame.

Please talk about clans and multiple parties!

Clans that we can't join anymore. 

I know right! However, if we are allowed to switch between multiple parties in your clan then all (most) will be forgiven.

Oh and regarding the facial expressions in battle. I asked about it a while ago and actually got a response. I'm too lazy to find it right now but essentially I don't think it'll be implemented extensively.

 

[fadohacolu]

Many trailers and gameplay videos from official sources have over 1million views including one I was watching again the other day which had 3 millions something. I am sure it will be big enough, maybe not skyrim big, but definitely large enough to attract modders.

I know you're talking about mods in particular, but I want to point out that I watch a ton of trailers for games that I never even consider buying afterwards. Also, will 1 or 3 million sounds very impressive, when you take into account the actual amount of people who have internet access, and the size of the gaming community at large, these numbers are middling at best.

I'm continually baffled by the laissez faire attitude some members of this community have. Yes, I understand that mystical, highly skilled modders are waiting in the shadows to give us graphical overhauls within days of release, and I am aware that the game will 'release when it's released' and that the graphics don't bother many of the members of this community. As someone who will most likely buy this game, I still have concerns about the game's reception in the larger community.

But, perhaps I should simply concern myself with my own feelings, which are that I don't mind the graphics (though I do think they are poor) and I'll probably buy this reskin anyways. 

 

[John the Roleplayer]

[...]

Taking screenshots requires a little bit of setup but the ones we've seen so far have been laughably bad. Remember these?

隐藏

隐藏

How do you publish these and think "yup, these are representative of the game we want to produce"?

[...]

The second of these screenshots was published specifically to share an amusing bug, so it's understandable that it isn't chosen for visual quality. But the first one, I have to ask, what do you think is so terrible about it? Is it the child's face? That's the only thing I can imagine, everything else looks really good to me. And if it is that, it's likely the fact that they generate children's faces based on their parents' that makes it less than perfect.

 

[fadohacolu]

[...]

Taking screenshots requires a little bit of setup but the ones we've seen so far have been laughably bad. Remember these?

隐藏

隐藏

How do you publish these and think "yup, these are representative of the game we want to produce"?

[...]

The second of these screenshots was published specifically to share an amusing bug, so it's understandable that it isn't chosen for visual quality. But the first one, I have to ask, what do you think is so terrible about it? Is it the child's face? That's the only thing I can imagine, everything else looks really good to me. And if it is that, it's likely the fact that they generate children's faces based on their parents' that makes it less than perfect.

The lighting, for starters, is really bad. There's also the strange reflections on the character's clothes, the seam in the forehead which almost reads as a wrinkle. In general it's also just poor composition, and it makes the room look entirely empty.

 

[John the Roleplayer]

The wrinkled forehead looks off on a child, that's true, he wouldn't inherit that from his parents (yet). But I guess they'll iron out those creases.

However, which lighting do you mean specifically? That on the clothes might not be entirely physically correct, but it looks nice. And that on the floor and columns looks really good.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

The screenshot is made specifically to show off the child's face, and the face looks terrible. I have a lot of problems with the background as well, but most importantly it fails to represent the part of the game it's supposed to be showing off.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

3-page summary = Modders aren't magicians (+1 real truth)

I'm surprised that neither Callum nor any dev have commented around here yet... why is that?

 

[Zmyrf]

Well, I'm probably wrong but.. there may be a glimmer of hope in terms of release because the pics don't have "WORK IN PROGRESS" on them.

I think it's gonna release within the next 2 months, on no basis whatsoever.
If the 100th blog happens to be the final/announcement one, that would mean some 4d mastermind **** going on because it makes no sense otherwise.

All these comments about the graphics are about to add some extra years to the development, see you next year on blog #203.

 

[FBohler]

The lighting, for starters, is really bad. There's also the strange reflections on the character's clothes, the seam in the forehead which almost reads as a wrinkle. In general it's also just poor composition, and it makes the room look entirely empty.

I think that, apart from the kid looking a bit creepy and having zero relations with his own mother, this screenshot is pretty okay.

Clothes look good in my opinion, there's this more reflective fabric that may resemble something expensive in Calradia, and there's the regular fabric that looks very natural.

If I was the one to take this SS from the game, sure I would rather prefer some less empty background and would make some touches on the kid's model. But the SS is still okay nonetheless.

 

[578]

3-page summary = Modders aren't magicians (+1 real truth)

I'm surprised that neither Callum nor any dev have commented around here yet... why is that?

I hope they did not reply because they're busy with figuring out how to make a good blog next week. It's been a sh*tstorm so far this week, everywhere. Reddit thread, resonant's new video, all comments have been negative to say the least.

 

[DtheHun]

Modders aren't magicians and I think it's harmful to think like that. If a game is ugly to begin with then it will take much longer to redo all those assets to prevent the whole thing looking incoherent (warband has something like 500 textures and a similar number of models). Contrary to what most people say, games are never just a framework for modders. Mods are usually just expansions of the core gameplay loop and aesthetic of the base game.
Warband was part of the last generation of games which could be modded by a layman. The days of editing textures in paint.net are for the most part over, so full graphical overhauls are going to be much less common in bannerlord.

+1

I share the opinion that the golden age of M&B modding has long passed. The more professional technology is an important part, but there are multiple reasons. Before Warband, single player experience was the only thing to expand, so the modding power was concentrated on expansions and overhauls. Many great Mount&Blade mods has never made it to Warband, because completing hundreds of hand painted textures with normal map images and transplanting massive amount of code to another environment is not the most recreating way to spend someone's spare time. TLD team made it, but they are engaged Tolkien fans in the first place, and Mount&Blade was a perfect base for LOTR experience.
However, the greatest slap in the face was the early announcement of the incoming sequel. (Or the slow implementation, it's about your point of view) Those who made the process of stepping from MB to WB, not really wanted to make it again, and this miracle waiting has started. Since then great modders have gone, as waiting is also not for those creative folk.
No doubt, that there will be overhauls for popular fantasy novels (because of the power of fandom), plus the products of some idiots with the habit of attaching boobs to everything  , but I doubt that full graphic overhaul mods - just to make the vanilla experience better - will happen for Bannerlord. So, I think, it's very definitive what we get from the devs.

 

[NPC99]

...The gulf between an average modder and an average professional 3d modeller is a lot bigger now than it was in 2010 and there are very few people around on the forums right now who could surpass the current bannerlord assets in quality, despite all my criticisms of the latter. 3d modelling is now more specialised than its ever been. Ever wondered why there are so few overhaul mods for more recent games?

Agreed. Most Warband mods rely upon a bank of OSP codes and assets that accumulated over years. None of that will exist for Bannerlord on its release. Modding Warband is a timesink, but that will seem quick compared to Bannerlord. People will only mod Bannerlord if the base game is sufficiently inspiring for them to invest the time required.

Hopefully, Duh will do a better job on documentation for Bannerlord’s modding tools/editors, workflows and code structures. Warband’s documentation was poor.  Given his recent appointment and initial focus on the new website/forums, that’s some way off.

Early mods will only be asset retextures, a few asset replacements, plug in code tweaks etc. Full conversion mods will take much longer. Even those currently in production such as Kingdoms of Arda can only work on particular types of assets in advance of Bannerlord’s release, which will have to be subsequently adapted to Bannerlord’s skeletons, cloth physics etc.

Even with Warband tons of full conversion mods were abandoned before completion.

 

[Hernanxd16]

Well, I'm probably wrong but.. there may be a glimmer of hope in terms of release because the pics don't have "WORK IN PROGRESS" on them.

I wouldn't expect much of that. In the past they removed the "Work in Progress" from the screenshots of the game but later they added it again.

I'm surprised that neither Callum nor any dev have commented around here yet... why is that?

I hope they did not reply because they're busy with figuring out how to make a good blog next week.

+1



I agree with what has been said by Jacobhinds, DtheHun and NPC99. I don't think we will see too much total overhaul mods for Bannerlord like in Warband, and probably the ones we will see won't be created by a single person like most of the WB mods. Maybe there will be more mods that add new features "code-based" instead of total conversion mods. I also think Duh will do a better documentation for Bannerlord than we had for warband.

 

[LAST_ACTION_HERO]

Agreed. Most Warband mods rely upon a bank of OSP codes and assets that accumulated over years. None of that will exist for Bannerlord on its release. Modding Warband is a timesink, but that will seem quick compared to Bannerlord. People will only mod Bannerlord if the base game is sufficiently inspiring for them to invest the time required.

Hopefully, Duh will do a better job on documentation for Bannerlord’s modding tools/editors, workflows and code structures. Warband’s documentation was poor.  Given his recent appointment and initial focus on the new website/forums, that’s some way off.

Early mods will only be asset retextures, a few asset replacements, plug in code tweaks etc. Full conversion mods will take much longer. Even those currently in production such as Kingdoms of Arda can only work on particular types of assets in advance of Bannerlord’s release, which will have to be subsequently adapted to Bannerlord’s skeletons, cloth physics etc.

Actually I wish they would give us more broad information, sure a Release Date for the 100 Blog be nice since Blog 104 be 2 years of Blogs, I still wonder how deep the economic System can be used or Manipulated or if Population is not implemented in the game if we can Add it and then use for example Economy up and downtime to control Migration flow. For example if in Battania there is a Recession/Depression and in Vlandia is a Boom time, then it would be nice to see on the map a Card with people Moving from a Battanian City to a Vlandian one, on the Way of Course could be Bandits but it would make way more sense that way that they are at places where more people are Using Roads to ship Merchandise or just Migrate to another place. That also be a nice way to pic up more Quests like a Family that wanted to migrate and got attacked in the middle of the road by Bandits they then kidnapped their Children for Ransom Money what the Family does not have and the Player could assist in hunting the Kidnapper down or giving them Money, also if there be a bunch of people robbed and they in the Tavern looking for help the Player could just get all the Quest find one Bandit camp and just turn it later in to collect the rewards, that would be a nice thing to get a quick coin after a vicious defeat in battle while rebuilding the Army and scoring points with locals or factions. Like the possibilities would be endless almost

Also what could be used/simulated if we have a Multicultural population in a City if a Faction attacks it that has lets say a significant amount of its Ethnicity in that city they could Rise up and Join the Attacker like opening the Gates or if they are all located in the Slums just take over that part of town like a Riot in one part of the City in the Middle of the Siege would be nice too, but for that we would need to know how big actually are the Siege map if it covers in Battle the Entire City or just a Entry point. Streetgangs could also be formed from certain Faction for example Imagine in a Vlandian City there is a Gang war of Nords vs Asserai and the Player how is lets day Vlandian has to choose what to do. Like for example either join one side like the Nords because Player has not enough troops to crush both so crushing one be reasonable or if the player feels strong enough he could crush both then in the later have the option to expel both Ethnicity from the city?

On the other Hand if the Player is lets say Nord he could just take over the Nord Gang and start his own Crime network from that City like Al Capone. I would have so many Ideas what to mod in and do but we do not have much Information yet.

I wonder about how far we can mod the tool to make Units, like their Bodies ranged from Skeletons for Fantasy mods till up to Conan Like Barbarians or Giants. My guess now is that its one hitbox and the slider just goes back and forth on it. That is why I wished we had like a 15 Minute Video where they show us each tool to edit the Game how it looks like and what it can do and where its limitations would be.


I bought 2 weeks ago " Blood and Gold Carribean " there is no real modding guide either that is probably while there are no mods out of it... the 40 page Guide they attached sounds like " this is on and off button, also this is just saying on and off button " but they had added some nice Gimmicks like Sea battels and pre battle Set up like in Total War, but its same with any other product that is bought, if there is no Manual to look up how something is done it becomes frustrating... Humans learn about 80% through Visuals, so best would be if there are Videos for example how to set up the Module system, because everyone can interpret written text different, since translations in other Languages also can be buggy or lose its content of meaning.

After tying last weekend to mod it I already kinda start regretting I bought the game... like even reading that it should be easier to mod in the latter it feels I bought it out of the blue and Warband is simpler to mod.

I think once Bannerlord is out I will just do tutorials on youtube by myself if its not done by Taleworlds, because if people know what to do to get what they want it will just attracts more of them.

plus the products of some idiots with the habit of attaching boobs to everything

There is nothing wrong with boobs... also some full nude models would be usefull for example to make a Roman Time Mod with naked Celts attacking that are just covered in blue paint... Because REALISM... haha 

 

[Lord Engineer (Castor)]

Not much to say about this blog and apart from a few minor details here and there can’t really say I learnt anything new.
Carry on.

Didn't see any difference. Why do close combat weapons cause red mist? Seems exactly the same as Warband. Well, here's to next week. 

To me it looks different, if nothing else the blood on the characters looks better. What would you prefer to red mist?, blood spurts?, arcs of blood drawn by the weapon?
I think the mist will be fine in the end and that it will be easier for a computer to handle, as it would need to simulate a large quantity at the same time.
Besides mist disappearing into the air is less jarring than squirts of liquid disappearing into the air.