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<p><a href="https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/32" target="_blank">In the previous blog in this series</a>, we described how Bannerlord’s new weapon physics model derives swing and thrust speeds of weapons from their physical characteristics. We talked about how weapon crafting plays a role in determining these properties and how this gives players the freedom to create a weapon which will complement their own fighting style. In this week’s blog, we would like to expand on this topic and explain the rest of the weapon physics model, showing how we determine the damage that a weapon inflicts and how that works in the game.</p></br> [/parsehtml]Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/35
Dev Blog 16/11/17
- Thread starter Callum
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I wonder how this works for when we mod in unusual equipment.
Does your strength add to how you can pick up speed for heavier weapons (and the resulting impossible fantasy weapons, like giant weapons or stuff made out of much heavier materials)?
Will flails (of all kinds), Kusarigama, Nunchucks, whips, nets, chain-shot and so on be possible in this system?
Howabout poleaxes where you might want to use a certain side?
What about unusual damages? Like fire, burning oil, poisons, lightning strike, suffocation? (or things players will want to mod in, like cold, unholy, psychic...)
Oh, and if you run into someone with the spear at the -ready to stab- position, or crash into spikes, does it do damage?
Does your strength add to how you can pick up speed for heavier weapons (and the resulting impossible fantasy weapons, like giant weapons or stuff made out of much heavier materials)?
Will flails (of all kinds), Kusarigama, Nunchucks, whips, nets, chain-shot and so on be possible in this system?
Howabout poleaxes where you might want to use a certain side?
What about unusual damages? Like fire, burning oil, poisons, lightning strike, suffocation? (or things players will want to mod in, like cold, unholy, psychic...)
Oh, and if you run into someone with the spear at the -ready to stab- position, or crash into spikes, does it do damage?
pellehard said:pellik said:
2021 isnt that wrong. could be released then. 4 years will pass by fast
If that is the case, then they would be joining a very 'exclusive' top ten list, of the longest development times in the history of games!
1. Duke Nukem Forever: 1996-2011 (15 years)
2. Diablo III: 2001-2012 (11 years)
3. Prey: 1995-2006 (11 years)
4. Team Fortress 2: 1998-2007 (9 years)
5. Too Human: 1999-2008 (9 years)
6. M&B II Bannerlord: 2012-2021 (9 years)
7. Spore: 2000-2008 (8 years)
8. L.A. Noire: 2004-2011 (7 years)
9. Galleon: 1997-2004 (7 years)
10. StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty: 2003-2010 (7 years)
At the moment they're sitting just outside the top ten, but give it another four years, and they'll be right up there... oh dear.
Cpt. Nemo said:
Native had destructible doors in multiplayer, not sure if you were just thinking of SP though.
Also trivia, Praven Seige scene has a sallyport door to the left of the attackers spawn that can't be used due to an iron door blocking the wooden one behind. So it might have been at one point intended in Warband for multiple entries be made usable but since the ai is limited to rushing the nearest enemy, it was never done. In Bannerlord the ai is capable though of attacking different areas at the same time so it might be possible more attack options on both teams exist, as we have seen the defenders sally through the main gate in one of the videoes so it's possible they can also sally through a smaller door to the side.
Renseo
Recruit
I have this concern about combat, let us say, two combatants were forced to do 1vs1 battle, one with faster--smaller weapon another with a big slower one. In M&B we know that it is possible to deal an even small amount of damage (eg 10 dmg) and interrupt the opponent attack. The one with faster weapon is possible to win with continuous faster attack without his opponent able to retaliate. in bannerlord if we also add the "attacker stun", we can also consider ... when the one with bigger weapon has bigger effect being stunned upon his attack were either blocked or connected. of course we also consider that in M&B, each char has 4 weapon slot and weapon speed also affected by proficiencies. Surely a player can handle this but what about the AI?
So we can conclude:
1. It is more advantageous to have smaller--faster weapon in 1vs1 battle against bigger weapon opponents.
2. Even if somehow the bigger weapon one able to connect his attack, he would suffer an attacker stun thus not feasible in 1vs1 battle, and in major brawl this is a severe disadvantage to be stunned when assaulting enemy position, since we also consider flanking movement by other enemy troops.
For another instance let us consider when assaulting walls with a siege tower. If one beserker with that huge axe throw himself to alot of enemies and attack the one with shield in front of him, he will be stunned, then raped by his enemies in his left and right.
So we can conclude:
1. It is more advantageous to have smaller--faster weapon in 1vs1 battle against bigger weapon opponents.
2. Even if somehow the bigger weapon one able to connect his attack, he would suffer an attacker stun thus not feasible in 1vs1 battle, and in major brawl this is a severe disadvantage to be stunned when assaulting enemy position, since we also consider flanking movement by other enemy troops.
For another instance let us consider when assaulting walls with a siege tower. If one beserker with that huge axe throw himself to alot of enemies and attack the one with shield in front of him, he will be stunned, then raped by his enemies in his left and right.
BahnoCZ
Sergeant
I am very pleasantly suprised that you decided to take this road. In all honesty, I was expecting you would simplify the combat for Bannerlord, perhaps making it more casual, but Lo! you've kept to your roots.
There's only one thing bugging me. Maybe only because it isn't fully explained in the article, maybe because it isn't something you plan, but...
Since you haven't elaborated further on this, in the article, I can't help, but see it as a massive loophole in Bannerlord's combat system.
From the article I understand 2 things. Perhaps altoghether wrongly.
One, kickback is a set value.
Two, heavier/unbalanced weapons are likely to have a higher kickback value, as per balance.
Why do I think this is a loophole?
Let's take the gif in the article as an example.
If I understand it correctly, if the macehead was bigger=heavier, the rider would get more kickback from it.
Does that make any sense at all? Surely the more weight is on the end of the stick all the more force would be needed to stop/reverse it's momentum and so impart force on the other end of the shaft, ie the rider's arms.
I understand I'm making a lot of assumptions here, without actually playing the game or understanding the mechanics clearly, but if you follow me or atleast bear with me there is I think a relatively simple solution.
Making kickback a threshold and the value governed by a simple damagedealt:damageblocked ratio. In this case blocked stands for absorbed by armour aswell.
(alternatively energydealt vs energyreceived, if you make that calculation beforehand)
Maintaining the same concept = less balanced weapons have a higher kickback threshold, it would figure as follows.
In this image, weapon 1 has low kickback threshold. It is a heavy unbalanced weapon.
Weapon 2 has a higher kickback threshold. It's a lighter, more balanced weapon.
As the kickback force aproaches the threshold, so the adverse effect diminishes. Therefore, if weapon 1 deals 50 damage and out of that 50, 40 is blocked, e.g. by armor, there is no kickback.
It's an optimal balance of momentum that lets the weapon pass without
a) jarring the hands of the attacker(kickback)
and b) retaining so much momentum itself, that the attacker has to struggle to stop it from leaving his hand(inertia)
Both inertia and kickback manifest in the game as the same thing, the aforementioned "attacker stun".
Conversely, weapon 2 has to deal more damage in relation to damage blocked, in order to reach the optimal momentum, as it is a weapon lighter, more easily affected by forces going in the opposite direction.
So it follows, that
A cutting weapon will benefit from having a lower kickback threshold when dealing with armour, whereas that lower threshold will make it carry more inertia when its damage is not reflected by armour, making it unwieldy.
A blunt weapon with a very high kickback threshold may benefit from increased damage, as its weight is increased, but it will suffer high inertia in exchange.
Ad nauseum.
Most likely, you have already thought of this, perhaps it is even more or less how it works ingame, although it isn't completely obvious from the article if that is so. If not, I hope that I didn't make it too confusing an explanation and that you might consider it. Doubtless you have a good reason, if you don't.
Question for Ümit Singil, for the next Dev Blog: As regards to the making of models for a game that requires precise hit detection, how do you find this affects the nature of the character models that you are able to make? Performance or otherwise.
There's only one thing bugging me. Maybe only because it isn't fully explained in the article, maybe because it isn't something you plan, but...
Since you haven't elaborated further on this, in the article, I can't help, but see it as a massive loophole in Bannerlord's combat system.
From the article I understand 2 things. Perhaps altoghether wrongly.
One, kickback is a set value.
Two, heavier/unbalanced weapons are likely to have a higher kickback value, as per balance.
Why do I think this is a loophole?
Let's take the gif in the article as an example.
If I understand it correctly, if the macehead was bigger=heavier, the rider would get more kickback from it.
Does that make any sense at all? Surely the more weight is on the end of the stick all the more force would be needed to stop/reverse it's momentum and so impart force on the other end of the shaft, ie the rider's arms.
I understand I'm making a lot of assumptions here, without actually playing the game or understanding the mechanics clearly, but if you follow me or atleast bear with me there is I think a relatively simple solution.
Making kickback a threshold and the value governed by a simple damagedealt:damageblocked ratio. In this case blocked stands for absorbed by armour aswell.
(alternatively energydealt vs energyreceived, if you make that calculation beforehand)
Maintaining the same concept = less balanced weapons have a higher kickback threshold, it would figure as follows.
In this image, weapon 1 has low kickback threshold. It is a heavy unbalanced weapon.
Weapon 2 has a higher kickback threshold. It's a lighter, more balanced weapon.
As the kickback force aproaches the threshold, so the adverse effect diminishes. Therefore, if weapon 1 deals 50 damage and out of that 50, 40 is blocked, e.g. by armor, there is no kickback.
It's an optimal balance of momentum that lets the weapon pass without
a) jarring the hands of the attacker(kickback)
and b) retaining so much momentum itself, that the attacker has to struggle to stop it from leaving his hand(inertia)
Both inertia and kickback manifest in the game as the same thing, the aforementioned "attacker stun".
Conversely, weapon 2 has to deal more damage in relation to damage blocked, in order to reach the optimal momentum, as it is a weapon lighter, more easily affected by forces going in the opposite direction.
So it follows, that
A cutting weapon will benefit from having a lower kickback threshold when dealing with armour, whereas that lower threshold will make it carry more inertia when its damage is not reflected by armour, making it unwieldy.
A blunt weapon with a very high kickback threshold may benefit from increased damage, as its weight is increased, but it will suffer high inertia in exchange.
Ad nauseum.
Most likely, you have already thought of this, perhaps it is even more or less how it works ingame, although it isn't completely obvious from the article if that is so. If not, I hope that I didn't make it too confusing an explanation and that you might consider it. Doubtless you have a good reason, if you don't.
Question for Ümit Singil, for the next Dev Blog: As regards to the making of models for a game that requires precise hit detection, how do you find this affects the nature of the character models that you are able to make? Performance or otherwise.
mr48 said:
Found this, maybe theyve added items after this was released(May ´16)
Lord of the Banner
Recruit
I hope any problems or issues there are can be resolved quickly and effectively. Maybe I can live long enough to see the release of what will most likely be my favorite game in the history of games.
NPC99 said:
Flails are not terribly historically accurate, so he saw no reason to include support for them
I still think it super important that we get some way to customize at least high teir armour.
First, it's easier to do, since you're only really going through weight values, armour values, and maybe adding some extra bonuses to your social capabilities.
Second, it's important, because armour's a way of showing off your status, wealth, and personality. The fancier stuff was a riot. Even still, Armour was sent from one lord to another as a political gift, much like you could give a champion horse or a ship.
Last, all of the best armour was made custom for you, you didn't just go to the market and buy a set of full plate, you went to a smith, made specifications and took measurements, and then dropped a lot of cash.
First, it's easier to do, since you're only really going through weight values, armour values, and maybe adding some extra bonuses to your social capabilities.
Second, it's important, because armour's a way of showing off your status, wealth, and personality. The fancier stuff was a riot. Even still, Armour was sent from one lord to another as a political gift, much like you could give a champion horse or a ship.
Last, all of the best armour was made custom for you, you didn't just go to the market and buy a set of full plate, you went to a smith, made specifications and took measurements, and then dropped a lot of cash.
Innocent Flower said:
Even if it’s judt customising the textures and colours. TW have basically said that there won’t be armour customisation, but a mod may be able to do it.
masterhound3
Regular
Question to the 3d modelling devs: As you grow in strength and training, will this show on your muscles?
