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<p>In a real-life battle, clever commanders will look for as many advantages as possible: they will try to get the high ground, outnumber their enemies, flank and surround them, strike by surprise… If they could do so, they would only engage battle when odds are overwhelmingly in their favour, so the battle ends even before it begins. Video games, on the other hand, are supposed to be fun – and for that, they need to be fair, especially in multiplayer. If you see yourself in a disadvantaged position, you should be there because of taking the wrong decisions, not because the game failed to find a balance where it’s the one with the best skills who win. In a game with deep gameplay, such as Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord, with so many different factions, troop types, weaponry, terrain, etc., finding that delicate balance is particularly tricky.</p></br> [/parsehtml]Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/97
Dev Blog 14/02/18
- Thread starter Callum
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This debate is beginning to be tiring at this point, I always play infantry and rather unorhodox builds in mount and blade and still manage to conquer all of it. My latest character was a thrower/1 handed athletics nord. Cavalry should be dominant in open flat areas, take note of the map before you complain. There are countless of mountains in Bannerlord maps, including forest areas with a many rocky hills that infantry and other units will definitely thrive. We cant go and throw realism out there just for the sake of nerfing cavalry, otherwise we would need advanced system like traps, pikes hidden in land etc. The biggest issue with cavalry for me was in mutliplayer that player skill is far superior than this of bots, but it definitely was not in single player.
That was a nice double wedge on the part of the knights. At first it looked as if it was going to a flat frontal assault but then units converged in 2 precise points. I thought units of the same division would be assigned to different "battalions" only in confrontations involving multiple Lords. Glad to see that is not the case (or there are some weird formations in game). Maybe the spearmen broke a little bit too easily, but it looked like as if the majority of them was tier 3 at best, against top tier knights.
Regarding multiplayer, I hope the elimination of the weight modifiers doesn't spell doom for the Warband Naked Champions, would really like to show off a truly bootiful body with that new character creator. Nice blog anyway, I would really like on AI behavior.
Regarding multiplayer, I hope the elimination of the weight modifiers doesn't spell doom for the Warband Naked Champions, would really like to show off a truly bootiful body with that new character creator. Nice blog anyway, I would really like on AI behavior.
It seems you have completely ignored this:cherac said:
NPC99 said:
The problem is not that the cavalry won this specific battle, they clearly have the upper hand. The physics/charge behind the cavalry is fine imo.
My problem is that the infantry refuse to defend themselves. Their spears should at least halt some of the charge. This way when infantry are in formation, cavalry will have a harder time breaking through. The more spears the infantry have and the more proficient they are at using them, the less chance cavalry have to break though. But if the infantry are on the move, not in formation, or too spread out they will be cut down like this gif(though hopefully more actually die from the charge).
Side comment on the gif, I wonder if the cavalry are even ordered to charge. It almost looks like they were ordered to move behind the infantry wall to show off the physics of how the horses push through the infantry.
Leoranthian
Regular
578 said:
+1
As someone who hates cavalry with a passion and heavily leans towards infantry/archers, I actually agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying. Cavalry should be dominant in open flat areas.
M&B takes place in a fantasy setting--we don't need to go overboard with all of the calls for realism here.
Luthais Eldrin said:
People who complain about cavalry in multiplayer, it's fully understandable. In multiplayer, players can use them in many different ways and totally overshadow other classes. What Cavalry has:
-360 degree blocking with a shield depending on where you're looking
-Bumpstab
-Superior support against infantry, by bumping them and allowing free kills on your teammates
-Superior maneuverability
-Unrealistic accelerations, allowing you to get in and get out extremely quickly
-Higher Tier horses are basically tanks
-The ability to shield your horse's head by holding your shield down, even though the head of the horse is exposed
-Superior pressence and travelling speed (obviously, you're on a horse)
-Superior speed damage bonuses
-Superior range with a lance
-The passive ability to switch Lance couch side, able to hit in a very wide area degree
-Immunity to knockdown effects
In single player though, the horses just charge, and if they get piled up, they're pretty much dead. Add a good hill against them and archers on top of it, and it's guaranteed win. Swadian horse Knights are overappreciated to say the least.
Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord is the eagerly awaited sequel to the acclaimed medieval combat simulator and role-playing game Mount & Blade: Warband.FBohler said:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/261550/Mount__Blade_II_Bannerlord/
To make a game meaningful, balanced and fun it should have consistent world rules. And since Bannerlord is a medieval inspired game, the easiest way to make a consistent game world is to use the real medieval world as inspiration. Real life references are perfectly valid, based on what Bannerlord's goals are.
578 said:
Knights being overpowered I don't think is assigned to the AI using them, its assigned to an ez player strat. Of course a player can counter a heavy cavalry army.
NPC99 said:
I really don't think you can draw many conclusions over the balance of the final product through a ten second gif.
The issue isn't whether the bunch of spearmen can or cannot realistically stop a cavalry charge, posts here show it's a discussion on itself. The issue is that some of the AI troops decided against using the spears they obviously carried for this occasion, instead they try to melee with throwing weapon. Though the longer I look at it, the more I think that it's a result of skirmishing unit being suddenly told to hold ground and not all of the footmen kept up.
CaptainLee said:
+1
The gif was beautiful , I believe we all agree ,it really sums everything up . what more do you want,apart from taleworlds I doubt there is any other mount and blade alternative in existence , now lets hold with the idealistic nit picking and hope they keep dropping more gifs to reduce the pain of waiting .
True, though this is the only relative gameplay we have and we wont be getting anymore anytime soon. So its fair to bring up these concerns now.CaptainLee said:
I don't think a complacent attitude helps anyone. Just because Mount and Blade offers the best combat doesn't excuse it from criticism. That lack of critical judgement is how a game is passed for best in the category. Especially when said concerns are not nitpicking, but valid comments.cherac said:
John.M said:
You're right, drawing inspiration from the real world could make the game better. Now making it as realist as possible would turn it into a gritty, dull mess.
If cav needs to be nerfed, it's due to being OP, not for realism's sake.
Realism for realism's sake is a bad design choice.
Let's replace all the mace models & textures with big lollipops instead, just in case such references to the real world are examples of realism for realism's sake and are having an unknown negative effect on the game.
@Fbohler, what's your opinion on realism in Bannerlord?
For the game to be well balanced, each faction needs some way of countering each other faction's best troops. But given that Vlandian Knights are likely to be at the top of its tree, it should only really be the top tier spear infantry (or similarly heavy cavalry) from opposing factions that should be expected to defeat them.
It's very likely that the pink dressing gown brigade we saw here simply aren't a good enough unit set to stop the charge. It hopefully doesn't imply that infantry types to beat them don't exist: just that those aren't shown here.
It's very likely that the pink dressing gown brigade we saw here simply aren't a good enough unit set to stop the charge. It hopefully doesn't imply that infantry types to beat them don't exist: just that those aren't shown here.
Ok, here's a purely gameplay based argument. In captain mode, were told that the advantage for choosing lower tier troops is you have more of them. However, if the lower tier troops designed to be anti-cav aren't capable of stopping cavalry, that puts anyone choosing that at a distinct disadvantage for choosing that option. Therefore, no one will choose that option. Not trying to say spears should beat cav every time, but the cab shouldn't be able to charge the front of a spear wall and break through (at least not so easily) because that damages the way the game is played.
Edit: spelling because f autocorrect
Edit: spelling because f autocorrect
Roccoflipside said:
No, it shouldn't. But I don't think what we saw here counts as a spear wall.
This is the very top of the Vlandian troop tree in action, in very large numbers. If they're not able to smash through a poorly organised thin line of infantry who aren't using the correct weapons for the situation, then that will damage the way the game is played, too.
The best units in the Vlandian roster should absolutely be able to dominate the vast majority of other troops - otherwise they won't be worth the expense in money and time to recruit and train them up. It's really only the very best units in other factions' rosters that should be able stand up to them, especially in conditions that favour them.
Unless the pink dressing gowns are elite top-tier spearmen (I don't think they are), I'm not worried in the slightest about what this gif shows.
There's no suggestion that these troops are disorganized, or that a more elite infantry will be "more organized". The problem is that they have the right weapons for the job, they just don't know how to use them. As far as we know how MnB functions, a more elite troop doesn't use weapons any different, the AI is the same.
So elite infantry using the same AI would be trampled all the same, they just wouldn't die as easily.
So elite infantry using the same AI would be trampled all the same, they just wouldn't die as easily.
