Dev Blog 14/02/18

[parsehtml]<p><img src="https://www.taleworlds.com/Images/News/blog_post_77_taleworldswebsite.jpg" alt="" width="575" height="290" /></p> <p>In a real-life battle, clever commanders will look for as many advantages as possible: they will try to get the high ground, outnumber their enemies, flank and surround them, strike by surprise… If they could do so, they would only engage battle when odds are overwhelmingly in their favour, so the battle ends even before it begins. Video games, on the other hand, are supposed to be fun – and for that, they need to be fair, especially in multiplayer. If you see yourself in a disadvantaged position, you should be there because of taking the wrong decisions, not because the game failed to find a balance where it’s the one with the best skills who win. In a game with deep gameplay, such as Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord, with so many different factions, troop types, weaponry, terrain, etc., finding that delicate balance is particularly tricky.</p></br> [/parsehtml]Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/97

 

[sozie3333]

“As mentioned above, in multiplayer, we tie movement speeds to the class rather than weapon weights or armour. This enables us to, for example, make a berserker very agile, even though his weapon may be very heavy. Also, an important factor is that, unlike in Warband, we have a combat speed and a normal speed. This means that once you raise your weapon or block, you will slow down to a combat pace, which greatly reduced the amount of face-hugging going on and prevents players from constantly holding up their shield and turtling in combat. These speeds, as well as, the acceleration can also be set for each individual multiplayer class, giving designers (and eventually modders) an easy way to create unique classes without having the hassle to cross balance the weights of the armours for every small change.”

Bannerlord is medieval Overwatch confirmed

 

[whereisthedevblog]

“As mentioned above, in multiplayer, we tie movement speeds to the class rather than weapon weights or armour. This enables us to, for example, make a berserker very agile, even though his weapon may be very heavy. Also, an important factor is that, unlike in Warband, we have a combat speed and a normal speed. This means that once you raise your weapon or block, you will slow down to a combat pace, which greatly reduced the amount of face-hugging going on and prevents players from constantly holding up their shield and turtling in combat. These speeds, as well as, the acceleration can also be set for each individual multiplayer class, giving designers (and eventually modders) an easy way to create unique classes without having the hassle to cross balance the weights of the armours for every small change.”

Bannerlord is medieval Overwatch confirmed

Thats not right you are comparing two completely different games

 

[578]

On a side note, am I the only one glad to see units wearing distinguishable colors so we can turn off the sprites floating over troops heads without confusing allies and foes?

Absolutely not. Multiplayer especially, has been hell many times with the bannered circles, especially if they match the background of the camera. In single player it's going to be another great immersion booster. I agree with you.

Something that tied in closely with this design process was deciding the faction colours. We wanted each faction to have a distinctive colour which would make their troops recognisable in the thick of a battle, while also subtly representing the culture of that faction. In other words, we needed to select colours which are unique for gameplay reasons, but still say something about the faction. One issue we ran into while selecting the faction colours was with multiplayer. We use two different colours for each faction in multiplayer: dark as the primary (team 1) and light as the secondary (team 2). The team colours are displayed in various UI elements, items and clothing so we wanted to ensure that players could easily differentiate between the two teams at a glance and that everything is visually clear for colour blind players.
https://steamcommunity.com/games/261550/announcements/detail/1649884446698938168

I was expecting it based on the Faction Banner blog and the profusion of white garments awaiting faction colours to be dynamically applied in game. I applaud anything that gets rid of troop labels, but would like it done with greater subtlety. They all look like pink clones. I had hoped that the colours would mainly show on arms given mail/leather armour covering chests. The shield design exacerbates uniformity too much.

Edit - To be fair, the faction colours on the Vlandian knights are subtle. The danger of gaudiness lies with light troops wearing little armour.

I have missed that comment from the blogs, thank you lad.

 

[DanAngleland]

Thanks for those links NPC99, they are interesting. I wish I could have listened to the video interview in the second, but unfortunately the microphone doesn't seem to pick up the author's voice very effectively. So all I have in the second link is a short synopsis of what he says. Regardless, Dyrrachium is the key to proving your point for me; it wasn't on obviously favourable ground and yet the Varangians still held firm when charged and repelled the attack.

Now I think about it, I think I've read about Dyrrachium somewhere before, maybe just the wiki; it sounds familiar in the way it went. It does indeed suggest that some infantry could resist the Norman's cavalry charges reliably (interesting that you say it wasn't a shield wall, but they were Varangians and might they have fought in just that way, since it is what they knew? If indeed a shield wall, generally understood to be very closely packed infantry with interlocking shields, is something that other cultures- such as Byzantine "regular" infantry- didn't practice).

So the charge wasn't unstoppable by good infantry with the necessary tactics, but I don't think there is a possibility of getting troops in Bannerlord to actually overlap shields and have a physical significance; i.e. making the shields act like a skin. What is possible however is just to have a tight formation- the wall in the video was quite tight- and be much deeper; at least twice as deep would be interesting to see. Some of the cavalry was brought to a stop, albeit briefly; it is only because there was a huge amount of cavalry and the line of infantry was only 3 deep that they were able to power through. If the player chooses to have a large infantry army (the footage I've seen so far suggests all AI armies have a lot of cavalry, and that infantry are barely the largest group even for e.g. Battanians) then I should think it is possible to halt a charge of heavy cavalry, though on flat ground I would want at least 4 infantry for every oncoming heavy cavalryman to be confident of that.

Another factor that weighs against the infantry in the game, though, is that the horses are pretty damn big in Bannerlord. I would like them to be a little smaller (as they apparently were at this time relative to the later medieval period). It doesn't feel very 600-1100AD to have horses that tower over men, to me. I have long whinged opined that M&B would be better with smaller and slower horses. They were slower (and less manoeuvrable, which I wouldn't want) in the version I first played, 0.808.

Incidentally, it was nice to see something I hadn't noticed before in the Bayeux Tapestry (second link); the artists have given the 'background' legs of the horses a different colour to the rest of the horse to avoid confusion over which leg is which.

There's the green dust all over again, and I've spotted at least 4 soldiers falling down with the very same animation at the very same speed, so the physics aren't real.

I see yellowish dust being kicked up, and it looks fine to me. Just my opinion of course, I am not saying you are wrong.

 

[whereisthedevblog]

These look to be Spears rather than Lances. Interesting. Assuming these are Vlandian Knights makes me wonder if they have adopted the lance or not. Presumably Kuzait Lances and Cataphacts use them.

But Cats use already those huge two handed maces!

At the battle of Hastings, the Anglo-Saxon shield wall held off Norman cavalry for eight hours. It wasn’t broken by couched lances and horse momentum, it was broken by ill-disciplined pursuit of retreating cavalry.
Most of the Norman cavalry attacks probably never impacted the shield wall as they just closed the distance to launch javelins in the hope of disrupting its formation.
I’m disappointed to see a fantasy charge capable of instantly steam rolling an undisrupted shield wall.

They said that there are 3 AI: one for tactics (captain), one for formation (sergeant) and one individual. I guess that even with great captain and sergeant low tier troops would do silly things.

Where is this mention because I don't see the AI in action using their advance AI as in using spears to counter the cavalry charge

 

[sozie3333]

“As mentioned above, in multiplayer, we tie movement speeds to the class rather than weapon weights or armour. This enables us to, for example, make a berserker very agile, even though his weapon may be very heavy. Also, an important factor is that, unlike in Warband, we have a combat speed and a normal speed. This means that once you raise your weapon or block, you will slow down to a combat pace, which greatly reduced the amount of face-hugging going on and prevents players from constantly holding up their shield and turtling in combat. These speeds, as well as, the acceleration can also be set for each individual multiplayer class, giving designers (and eventually modders) an easy way to create unique classes without having the hassle to cross balance the weights of the armours for every small change.”

Bannerlord is medieval Overwatch confirmed

Thats not right you are comparing two completely different games

They are now setting hero classes and trying to make so like bezerkers counter another unit, its definitely pulling similarities.

 

[DanAngleland]

Balancing the playable classes is essential to all player-versus-player multiplayer games and it is not about the berserker countering another unit, just making sure that the class is not hampered by the weapon it carries and thus is a viable choice. They need to be fairly quick on their feet because they have little armour and are vulnerable to arrows.

 

[Von Winterfeld]

The infantry facing the knights should have doubled their depth to receive that charge - 4 deep is not good enough on that ground

 

[NPC99]

... (interesting that you say it wasn't a shield wall, but they were Varangians and might they have fought in just that way, since it is what they knew? If indeed a shield wall, generally understood to be very closely packed infantry with interlocking shields, is something that other cultures- such as Byzantine "regular" infantry- didn't practice)...

The Varangians may well have used a shield wall. The decisive Norman cavalry charge was against the Byzantine centre once the Varangians were no longer shielding it. I was referring to the rest of the Byzantine centre as not being in a shield wall. The first units hit in the Byzantine centre by the Norman couched lances were skirmishers in loose formation, which collapsed and probably helped disrupt the next layer of Byzantine spear levies they then crashed into like a thunderbolt.

The infantry facing the knights should have doubled their depth to receive that charge - 4 deep is not good enough on that ground

The Norman army at Dyrrhachium (1081) was reputed to be 30,000 vs 20,000 Byzantines. However, Guiscard only had 1,300 Norman knights and the Byzantines only had 1,000 Varangians. I doubt the Varangians were deeper than 4 ranks as that would have shrunk their 1,000 to a small frontage - they covered the Byzantine centre at the start of the battle and repelled an early Norman cavalry charge with the support of archers behind them, not additional ranks of infantry. I accept that less experienced and less disciplined troops probably required a deeper formation.

 

[Ostrogoth Pikeman]

To fix the problem with spears on the back unused I would like it if there was a command for it in the weapons section. Or if certain formations caused troops to pull out weapons such as shield and shortsword for a shield wall.

 

[Rabies]

I’m disappointed to see a fantasy charge capable of instantly steam rolling an undisrupted shield wall.

To be honest, I don't think what we see in the gif is an undisrupted shield wall. At least I bloody hope it isn't!

The infantry line only forms up about half a second before the first of the cavalry hits. Not only are the spears (or javelins, or whatever they are) pointing upwards, but the shields are as well. The infantry hasn't formed anything resembling a shield wall; they are just standing there waiting to get run over. This could be because they haven't had time to form up properly, it could be because this type of infantry (light skirmishers?) don't have a shield wall command available. Or, it could well just be that they were deliberately set up not to react to the cavalry charge, in order to show off the collision physics and animations in the gif.

I'd be pretty surprised if this is a showcase of what the infantry shield wall command actually looks like in the game.

 

[578]

“As mentioned above, in multiplayer, we tie movement speeds to the class rather than weapon weights or armour. This enables us to, for example, make a berserker very agile, even though his weapon may be very heavy. Also, an important factor is that, unlike in Warband, we have a combat speed and a normal speed. This means that once you raise your weapon or block, you will slow down to a combat pace, which greatly reduced the amount of face-hugging going on and prevents players from constantly holding up their shield and turtling in combat. These speeds, as well as, the acceleration can also be set for each individual multiplayer class, giving designers (and eventually modders) an easy way to create unique classes without having the hassle to cross balance the weights of the armours for every small change.”

Bannerlord is medieval Overwatch confirmed

Classes did not exist first in Overwatch. This could be the key to have perfect balance, IF THEY NAIL IT. Customization will be taken away but if the balance is good people won't mind. If they mess it up though..... Hell is coming.

 

[fadohacolu]

Everyone is concerned about the GIF showing the infantry failing to use spears, but I'm more concerned about the screenshot.

It's low quality and if you look closely it appears they forgot to add textures in a few places. This game has really regressed. 

 

[Rabies]

Everyone is concerned about the GIF showing the infantry failing to use spears, but I'm more concerned about the screenshot.

It's low quality and if you look closely it appears they forgot to add textures in a few places. This game has really regressed. 

Yes, and the decorative style of the architecture is clearly anachronistic and not Russian enough. It must be because the Turkish government is paying them to lie and be lazy.

 

[RoboSenshi]

I hope there's an effective counter to heavy cavalry charges. You can't balance out the OP HC by just making it expensive. Players will get rich in game and exploit it.

 

[bwc153]

I hope there's an effective counter to heavy cavalry charges. You can't balance out the OP HC by just making it expensive. Players will get rich in game and exploit it.

There was nothing OP about that cavalry charge.  The Infantry was not in the proper formation to receive a charge as well as being in unbroken and flat terrain.

 

[Varadin]

I don't understand.  Speed will be based on unit and not on units weapon and armor.

So does it mean if 2 players choose same factiona and same unit and 1 choose heavy armor and other choose to be naked that both will have same speed ? da faq ??

 

[NPC99]

Everyone is concerned about the GIF showing the infantry failing to use spears, but I'm more concerned about the screenshot.

It's low quality and if you look closely it appears they forgot to add textures in a few places. This game has really regressed. 

隐藏

Read the text:
Having the level as a whitebox makes it very convenient to do layout changes according to feedback from playtests. It also serves to save me time and restrict myself positively during the following skinning phase, where we replace the white boxes with actual assets and focus more on visual features.”

TW test MP scenes for balance before adding visual textures.

 

[DanAngleland]

... (interesting that you say it wasn't a shield wall, but they were Varangians and might they have fought in just that way, since it is what they knew? If indeed a shield wall, generally understood to be very closely packed infantry with interlocking shields, is something that other cultures- such as Byzantine "regular" infantry- didn't practice)...

The Varangians may well have used a shield wall. The decisive Norman cavalry charge was against the Byzantine centre once the Varangians were no longer shielding it. I was referring to the rest of the Byzantine centre as not being in a shield wall. The first units hit in the Byzantine centre by the Norman couched lances were skirmishers in loose formation, which collapsed and probably helped disrupt the next layer of Byzantine spear levies they then crashed into like a thunderbolt.

Ah I see, thanks.

Everyone is concerned about the GIF showing the infantry failing to use spears, but I'm more concerned about the screenshot.

It's low quality and if you look closely it appears they forgot to add textures in a few places. This game has really regressed. 

隐藏

Read the text:
Having the level as a whitebox makes it very convenient to do layout changes according to feedback from playtests. It also serves to save me time and restrict myself positively during the following skinning phase, where we replace the white boxes with actual assets and focus more on visual features.”

TW test MP scenes for balance before adding visual textures.

I am fairly sure he was joking 

 

[DtheHun]

I think there won't be, and don't have to be equivalent unit to heavy cavalry in plains, but it was said that the terrain will be diverse enough to find places out of their comfort zone. Question is how good will be the AI to analize the situation, its surroundings and act rationally. Hopefully better than it is in weapon selection.