Dev Blog 12/07/18

ArnulfFloyd · 2018-07-14

Interface is less important than gameplay

The Bowman · 2018-07-14

kalarhan 说:
The Bowman 说:

I'm sure that the talented art team can come up with something that feels alive and brings more color to the interface, as opposed to battering the same old path of 'Dark Ages means that the world is colored in black and white and everyone is sad'.

点击展开...

I personally disagree. The interface should be the least intrusive as possible, as the game itself (world map, parties moving around, agents fighting in a scene) should have the center spot. I will probably play most of the time with interface off (hope there is a Native option for that, otherwise mods), and only call for it when needed it.

thus making it less colorful and even dull to look at works to the benefit of what is important in that case.

Warband is a good example. Many mods try too hard to make backgrounds to look cool, but they only result in hard to read texts and generally worst interface. Wrong thingy to focus.

It really depends on what you mean by 'colorful'. Making the text hard to read is generally a bad design choice, and many intrusive elements that make the UI big, overly complex and tiring is also something I don't like either. My point is that there is little harmony between what the game is and what the UI represents. The UI can be minimalist, yet look nice and fitting. For now, I think that the dark theme is not representative for the game, and also tires your eyes very quickly. If there is one game where I feel well on the campaign map, that's Rome 2.

Roccoflipside · 2018-07-14

The Bowman 说:
kalarhan 说:

The Bowman 说:

I'm sure that the talented art team can come up with something that feels alive and brings more color to the interface, as opposed to battering the same old path of 'Dark Ages means that the world is colored in black and white and everyone is sad'.

点击展开...

I personally disagree. The interface should be the least intrusive as possible, as the game itself (world map, parties moving around, agents fighting in a scene) should have the center spot. I will probably play most of the time with interface off (hope there is a Native option for that, otherwise mods), and only call for it when needed it.

thus making it less colorful and even dull to look at works to the benefit of what is important in that case.

Warband is a good example. Many mods try too hard to make backgrounds to look cool, but they only result in hard to read texts and generally worst interface. Wrong thingy to focus.

点击展开...

It really depends on what you mean by 'colorful'. Making the text hard to read is generally a bad design choice, and many intrusive elements that make the UI big, overly complex and tiring is also something I don't like either. My point is that there is little harmony between what the game is and what the UI represents. The UI can be minimalist, yet look nice and fitting. For now, I think that the dark theme is not representative for the game, and also tires your eyes very quickly. If there is one game where I feel well on the campaign map, that's Rome 2.

I couldn't stand the UI in Rome 2, I felt like I could never find the thingy I was looking for. I know there were a lot of broken things in that game, at least at first, but honestly the UI was one of the worst parts of it for me.

As far as banking goes, one of the first groups to do true banking in Europe were the Knights Templar, as their original task was protecting travelers on their pilgrimage to the Holy Land. Pilgrims would deposit their goods with the Templars and receive a bank note, as mentioned earlier, which could be redeemed by the Templars upon reaching the Holy Land. One of the biggest issues with Medieval banking was the Catholic Church's refusal to allow Christians to charge interest on each other (they called it usury), and the Templars got around this by calling it "rent" rather than "interest". The usury topic was one faced by many other groups, such as the Medicis of Florence, who attempted to get into medieval banking, and is a large part of why there's such a large Jewish presence in the banking industry - they had no qualms about charging interest.

kalarhan · 2018-07-14

Roccoflipside 说:
One of the biggest issues with Medieval banking was the Catholic Church's refusal to allow Christians to charge interest on each other (they called it usury)

Calradia has no religion (as a mechanic), so no Church, so no usury. As long they dont include the Iron Bank and charge interest on your loans, it would work without much hassle. If they do include a loan system tho that could be interesting (something to work with the influence system and how your relations with other nobles/factions are affected). Even a kingdom to kingdom loan system when you are friendly/ally.

Roccoflipside · 2018-07-14

kalarhan 说:
Roccoflipside 说:

One of the biggest issues with Medieval banking was the Catholic Church's refusal to allow Christians to charge interest on each other (they called it usury)

点击展开...

Calradia has no religion (as a mechanic), so no Church, so no usury. As long they dont include the Iron Bank and charge interest on your loans, it would work without much hassle. If they do include a loan system tho that could be interesting (something to work with the influence system and how your relations with other nobles/factions are affected). Even a kingdom to kingdom loan system when you are friendly/ally.

Yeah, I was discussing the historical aspects of the issue, rather than the in-game. While the idea of having to decide how much money to take with you on campaign/etc is cool, I'd be afraid too much addition to the economy could ruin the balance they've created with the clan system and improvements you can build in towns and villages.

panem · 2018-07-14

kalarhan 说:
Roccoflipside 说:

One of the biggest issues with Medieval banking was the Catholic Church's refusal to allow Christians to charge interest on each other (they called it usury)

点击展开...

Calradia has no religion (as a mechanic), so no Church, so no usury. As long they dont include the Iron Bank and charge interest on your loans, it would work without much hassle. If they do include a loan system tho that could be interesting (something to work with the influence system and how your relations with other nobles/factions are affected). Even a kingdom to kingdom loan system when you are friendly/ally.

if Calradia has religion and refusal to allow each other, [John 2:13-17]

then clans may be issue their own letter of credit / shares / money...
i think possible to have coin / fuel / house / sheep exchange system,
may be ruin the warrior's balance

But that is good idea for someone like to play monopoly.

may be you will think, what fun for it?
i want to tell you, when i was small, i don't know why girl play barbie what fun for it.

kalarhan · 2018-07-14

panem 说:
may be ruin the warrior's balance

what happens, in Warband, when you lose a battle? As the game abstracts your purse it takes 10-20% of it (not all of it), it also takes some random quantity of gear from your inventory. That makes no sense (if you talk realism), but it works well with a arcade game like Warband.

the difference between having a place to store your cash is that you would lose more of the cash in hand. Even 100%. Which actually would make sense. It would also add more layers of decisions and a new type of risk x reward behavior: how much should you take with you (wages, food, trade)? when to stop raiding and return home (so you can store your stuff)? If you stay too long in the field you just increase the chance of a huge loss if you get caught.

the same could apply to NPCs. You take everything they have (cash) when you defeat and capture them, but they wont lose everything they have in the bank (safe).

and what happens when your capital or the NPC capital is under siege? It is not only a place to call home. Your fortune is in there. Lose the place and you (or a NPC lord) could lose a major portion of their cash, thus making any reaction later that much harder (low in cash, hard to pay wages, hire troops, and so on).

Doubt most people would want to include total loss (gear and inventory) to the equation, even if it means you can get the enemy stuff too

. So in that sense it may be better to just keep things simple, arcade-like, even if they dont make sense (immersion).

DtheHun · 2018-07-14

I agree. and don't forget that your enemy NPC Lords can't reload after losing. Making a "winner take it all" gameplay would make it much quicker and easier to become rich. I would only allow that for hardcore mode without reload option.

ArnulfFloyd · 2018-07-14

I must says as games not are made for realism primarily, many wish medieval reality in Bannerlord, some wish maybe exploration to take real-life days or other things hard to implement and fit with Bannrrlord, but game will be for our fun rather a history book.

monoolho · 2018-07-15

The Bowman 说:
A game like Bannerlord, which is simulated and dynamic to its very roots, needs to have a 'face' that makes it justice. I'm sure that the talented art team can come up with something that feels alive and brings more color to the interface, as opposed to battering the same old path of 'Dark Ages means that the world is colored in black and white and everyone is sad'.

I'm aware that much of what we see is WIP and that they are working on a new GUI, but I really hope they won't remain to the same concept of maintaining a generally dark atmosphere in the game.

Regarding the character portraits, TaleWorlds could really draw some inspiration from Total War games, but they might as well have plans for that at a later point.

I see your point, and I neither agree, nor do I disagree. I have my personal qualms with the UI, it looks raw, it looks "too dark". But Making it more colorful, adding much more symbols and stuff... It could make no sense whatsoever. I personally think they could strive more for the UI in Age of Empires 2. And being a medievalist, I do agree that reinforcing the "dark ages" theme is not good nor accurate (as in dark = hopeless, without art or finesse), but going much further than "maille-", "parchment-", "straw and linen" and/or "leather and metal-" inspired art... looks too artsy, too cute for the setting.

Remember, Bannerlord is, in all honesty, supposed to have a somewhat dark setting similar to that of Total War Attila, where political instability is the rule. Not necessarily are the people hopeless and desperate, but the factions and clans are supposed to vie for power in a way they didn't before. And for political instability you have to represent it with a fitting setting and UI.

Just like the boondock saint Roccoflipside, I detested Rome 2's UI because it was too artistic in many aspects, and while it "looked" beautiful, it was completely dumb because of art and design choices. Even playing as a roman, the setting never made me feel like a conqueror, only a a latin-etruscan-greek mixed breed walking around.
The UI didn't fit the game world. I won't deny that it somehow feels similar in BL because the world map is colorful and beautiful, and the UI seems plain, but the plainness is the problem, not the "dark/metallic choices" maybe it lacks a leather thing here or there, maybe some colored cloth... But taking the same artistic route of making it "colorful" may well be off-putting for Bannerlord. I'm by no means a visual artist, but I have my fair share of exposition to it. Bannerlord's UI could be more inspired in Crusader Kings 2's, the arts Paradox used fit astoundingly well, disregarding the confusing buttons. But it needs to be fitting to the setting.

The few medieval-fitting art stuff that could be fitting, in my mind at this moment, is bayeux-inspired art, but they would have to revamp the whole UI, and it would incur into the same problem modern Total War games have with the UI - they seem too dumb. Rome 2 is too greek to fit its game, Attila works because it is dark-ish, fitting the hunnic invasion and roman empire screw-ups. Charlemagne was... dumb. It felt nice, but just like Rome 2, it was too simple, too dumb, while also retaining many aspects from Atilla, which do not fit in with the Charlemagne period. That's the last TW game I played.

Remember that Bannerlord will try to encapsulate some of that chaotic/dark vibe from the "fall of an empire", which we know is a dumb concept for real world history, but it fits well with the narrative for games and books, it fits with the environments and aspects of the game.
The green, flowers and sun lighting of the world map do not need to be reflected onto the UI, or it'd look too marvelous, too fantastic. It'd look like a Lord of the Rings game, or something.

I liked the design of the Bannerlord UI: it seems highly functional - I liked the icons, text and buttons placement, I liked the added features of ease of access, etc., but the backgrounds (mostly of borders and the textures) look too plain and big for my taste (not considering the town view screens).

Maybe Taleworlds could reduce the size of their toolbars and borders by 6-12% and add more level and shadow to give even more impression of volume (which would make the UI seem slicker all around), while changing to more elaborated textures (more like a plotted/threaded texture, less like a solid plate of metal) with some artwork here and there... But just adding more color and vibrancy, making it too minimalistic or too simplistic can be catastrophic. Total War games UI are very bad examples, even if they look beautiful in some games.

I pretty much love the idea of money "weighing" on the inventory - it would make perfect sense that every for every 10k or so you had to carry one chest in the inventory, and to carry more than that, you'd have to have space for more chests. Adding the "bank", or the simple choice of depositing the chests into your castle or hideout, and losing it all if you're taken prisoner... That would make a completely different game experience akin to Souls games. "life" would be more meaningful, and you'd have to constantly be managing your expenses and travel burdens, as well as returning home to deposit stuff. It would be harder, and possibly more fun. However, this might not be the experience TW envisioned for Bannerlord, even if it is completely fitting. So I'm all in favor of them adding the choice to use this different money system (because the current cash system is totally simple and easy to use, so it's practical and already implemented, it would be a waste to completely dump it for such a complex system, and it could be off-putting for newbies).

If TW can't, or don't want to, or won't add another money system, simply having the tools to mod it in would already be awesome and I'm all in favor of modding it too. But for something like this to work and be balanced, the AI would also have to have it (and I'm not sure AI lords' inventories are even relevant). Balancing the system is the key for it to actually work, and a simple change like "take all their monies/lose it all" could prove to be way too hard to balance, and adding chests (weight) and bankers would only complicate things further, I believe.
They have spent ALL years balancing the economy. Making such an enormous change like that now could be a setback in development, but it could prove to be interesting for a future expansion/DLC or free update, if they would do it.
Anything for our world to be a bit more complex, and a little more full of possibilities...

Now imagine that, and when your character dies, you become your son, going through the vaults/buried chests taking every penny to accomplish your revenge... Now that would be a worthy tale to tell to a complete stranger in a bar, half-drunk.

EDIT: why are all my posts gigantic? Is something wrong with me? I guess it's the hype. The hype is catching up to me once more... Goddamn it, TaleWorlds, you're psychologically pressuring me to place my bets on gamescon... Yeah, it's your fault, not mine. I'm perfectly fine.

Roccoflipside · 2018-07-15

monoolho 说:
Anything for our world to be a bit more complex, and a little more full of possibilities...

This. I'm all for anything that adds more possibilities, nuances, etc. to the world, but as you also stated it must be balanced.
I know a lot of people here say "mod it" to just about any suggestion, and a lot of people don't like that answer, but it boils down to some ideas, as awesome as they may seem, being almost impossible to balance with the game TW has already made. Mods allow people to change the world in whatever way they choose, balanced or not, without effecting other players, but if the base game has unbalanced features it could ruin the whole game. IMO, the main reason the unbalanced mess of a masterpiece that WB is mainly succeeded because no other game does what it does, especially at the time it came out.

ArnulfFloyd · 2018-07-15

Total War games are very unbalanced when comes out, but for me Warband was and is enough balanced, I speaking only about mods not native

Richarddear1994 · 2018-07-15

monoolho 说:
EDIT: why are all my posts gigantic? Is something wrong with me? I guess it's the hype. The hype is catching up to me once more... Goddamn it, TaleWorlds, you're psychologically pressuring me to place my bets on gamescon... Yeah, it's your fault, not mine. I'm perfectly fine.

I for one like reading larger posts when they are full of well-constructed arguments/opinions such as yours Monoolho

I too am succumbing to the building hype of Gamescom as well as the mention of a new Bannerlord website "In the near future" (likely around Gamescom).

I can't be the only person who is feeling like the really are beginning to 'wrap things up' so to speak?

Roccoflipside · 2018-07-15

Richarddear1994 说:
monoolho 说:

EDIT: why are all my posts gigantic? Is something wrong with me? I guess it's the hype. The hype is catching up to me once more... Goddamn it, TaleWorlds, you're psychologically pressuring me to place my bets on gamescon... Yeah, it's your fault, not mine. I'm perfectly fine.

点击展开...

I for one like reading larger posts when they are full of well-constructed arguments/opinions such as yours Monoolho

I too am succumbing to the building hype of Gamescom as well as the mention of a new Bannerlord website "In the near future" (likely around Gamescom).

I can't be the only person who is feeling like the really are beginning to 'wrap things up' so to speak?

It definitely seems as though they are reaching the end of their cycle, which is awesome. The problem is we have absolutely no idea as to what that means, i.e. a few more months of finishing up, or another year or more

Balexander · 2018-07-16

i hope a few more months and this year would be good

FBohler · 2018-07-16

I advise you all not to build any hype or hope in BL launch date being announced in 2018 in any shape or form.

You might end up a bit frustrated. Let's just accept the facts, it's not coming out this year and it isn't so likely to be released in 2019 either.

Ginger_Leo · 2018-07-16

Very nice idea! ??

Crowcorrector · 2018-07-16

FBohler 说:
I advise you all not to build any hype or hope in BL launch date being announced in 2018 in any shape or form.

You might end up a bit frustrated. Let's just accept the facts, it's not coming out this year and it isn't so likely to be released in 2019 either.

This! Has everyone forgotten 2016?

Also they said their website would be "coming soon" well over 6 months ago. Forget their new website

Akesh the Cursed · 2018-07-16

FBohler 说:
Let's just accept the facts, it's not coming out this year and it isn't so likely to be released in 2019 either.

Agreed.

Svarogorije · 2018-07-16

I love the sandbox aspect of Mount and Blade,it is the reason i bought the game in the first place.Second place is the Vikings DLC which i think was done very well,and i am seriously hoping they will make a Historical DLC for Bannerlord.My idea : Since the Historical DLC in Warband was about the Norman invasion of England and Ireland,maybe they could make a DLC in Bannerlord about ancient Rome,time set can be at the Second Punic wars,or maybe even Early Middle ages 400-1000 AD,with the great Hun invasion,i would prefer the latter idea just because there would be more factions for people to choose,and of course because the Slavs were present then so i am biased as hell there

Anyways i hope the progress in the game is going well and i hope to see a fun and engaging game like Warband is.
Cheers.

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