Dev Blog 09/08/18

[parsehtml]<p><img class="frame" src="https://www.taleworlds.com/Images/News/blog_post_52_taleworldswebsite.jpg" alt="" width="575" height="290" /></p> <p>When it comes to strategy, information is key to success. It is important to know as much as possible about the current state of affairs in the game world to make the most of any opportunities that arise or prepare yourself for any impending threats. In this week’s blog, we take a look at one of the ways that we present information to players in Bannerlord: the encyclopaedia.</p></br> [/parsehtml]Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/72

 

[Orion]

None of this explains why you believe Taleworlds implementation of the encyclopaedia is unfun. Its just one giant paragraph of an ad hominem.

So I ask you again, Why do you believe in blocking information from the player in the encyclopaedia?

As I said, my patience with you is worn thin. Go find for me where I said or implied either of those things, because I tried and couldn't find them. You can post your opinion like it's fact, and you can ignore the opinions of everyone else if you want to, but you cannot lie to me for funsies.

If you think my last post is one big smear of ad hominem, then let me make this perfectly clear: if you keep acting like an ass and lying to my face--or any other forum member's--then I can only assume that you are trolling. It is my responsibility to ensure you stop trolling, one way or another. Because your unruly behavior is my responsibility, I must address it directly and separately from your discussion, ergo it is not ad hominem for you to freely ignore. As a reminder:
[quote author=Forum Rules]No trolling, flaming or anything similar
This is an open, friendly community and also the first stop for those seeking information or assistance of the game. We will not tolerate flaming or trolling; this includes but is not limited to deliberately trying to provoke an argument (flame-baiting), personal insults and verbal attacks. If you disagree with what someone has said, debate the point, not the person. Harassment of other users will not be tolerated either; this relates to PM-harassment or harassment by constantly insulting users across multiple threads, or by making disparaging comments that have no content relevant to the topics/discussion.

We would like to remind all of our members that this community is provided for the use of all members, not just those with a high post count or early join date. We all get sick of reading the same questions again and again, however we'd rather you didn't bother replying if you don't have something constructive to say. Remember, you were a newbie once.[/quote]
What you were specifically referencing as ad hominem was a description of your past behavior on this forum from a moderator's perspective. You are arrogant (never conceding anything), obnoxious (spamming with extra-large font), stubborn to a fault (often escalating arguments with your insistence), and--worst of all--a naysayer. If I had to describe you in a single phrase, it would be "belligerent contrarian." The fact that I have had to advise others on how to add you (specifically you) to their ignored user lists sends a clear message to me that I am not alone in feeling this way. I have a duty to make the forum welcoming & friendly, and you are currently standing in the way of that.

You don't get any more verbal warnings from me about this, Rainbow Dash. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[lolbash]

Go find for me where I said or implied either of those things, because I tried and couldn't find them.

Right here

players should be encouraged to explore the various scenes to get to certain shortcuts first.

To which it sounds the same as

As I said it is nice UI, but this amount of info should not be available at the start of the game. It would be better to achieve intelligence during your journey - socializing in feasts, taverns, walking the streets, sending spies, and not starting your career as a walking lexicon.

If I had to describe you in a single phrase, it would be "belligerent contrarian."

When I look up that word on multiple dictionaries, it tells me that you believe that a contrarian is a person whose beliefs go against the majority popular opinion. And you believe that it is suppose to be an insult? If you seriously expect everyone to bow to the majority and never falter away and reject all other ideas, then there is a negative word for that. Its is called a circlejerk.

I obviously know I am not very well liked in the forum, but I do not care, because I come to this forum in hopes that Taleworlds sees my ideas and consider them, not to make friends and have nice chats about the weather outside.

I have a duty to make the forum welcoming & friendly, and you are currently standing in the way of that.

You don't get any more verbal warnings from me about this, Rainbow Dash. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Then just ban me from the forums. You have the power to do so and I don't. I still believe in my ideas of how Bannerlord should be designed and will continue arguing to provide different viewpoints for Taleworlds to look at and consider implementing in their game, but if you honestly truly believe that I am arguing to make the forum members angry, then go ahead, click the button that says "Ban Rainbow Dash from the forum". Its your job to make the forums a better place.

 

[Bjorn The Broken]

Finally, speaking about design choices, the ideal UX for most games is not designed with the nth play-through in mind. The first play-through is paramount, and enjoyment of games goes up hand-in-hand with immersion. Getting players to walk around a town and talk to the NPCs is integral to immersion, even if they only have to do it once to unlock a menu shortcut. The alternative of having shortcuts immediately available just removes the practical incentive from exploring the hundreds of hand-crafted scenes that will be in the game, which might be the only thing that gets some players to enter them at all.

The scale of the game makes shortcuts a necessary QoL feature, but players should be encouraged to explore the various scenes to get to certain shortcuts first.

None of this explains why you believe Taleworlds implementation of the encyclopaedia is unfun. Its just one giant paragraph of an ad hominem.

Do these bolded part have the same meaning?

 

[Orion]

If I had to describe you in a single phrase, it would be "belligerent contrarian."

When I look up that word on multiple dictionaries, it tells me that you believe that a contrarian is a person whose beliefs go against the majority popular opinion. And you believe that it is suppose to be an insult?

I wasn't trying to insult you. Trust me, it would be obvious if I had. No, instead I think you need to look up "belligerent," and check some of the alternative definitions for "contrarian."

Or just read these, whatever satisfies you.

Belligerent:

隐藏

Names are easy to think of and can be handled by giving a poor intern who has nohing to do. Also people having two same names are not that rare, as happened to me in real life on occasians. I imagine this is a job Taleworlds is leaving behind to work on more important features and are using a small pool as placeholders.

The point is that the reason you are seeing two Kalas is because Taleworlds only has a small selection of names as a placeholder to test other features because, for obvious reasons, Banerlord is still in Developement.

So please, spare me your self-righteous sanctimony and know that your sarcasm is acknowledged but not appreciated this time. Appreciate that I am merely pointing this out for your own reflection, despite your aggravating persistence.

players should be encouraged to explore the various scenes to get to certain shortcuts first.

To which it sounds the same as

As I said it is nice UI, but this amount of info should not be available at the start of the game. It would be better to achieve intelligence during your journey - socializing in feasts, taverns, walking the streets, sending spies, and not starting your career as a walking lexicon.

These have no equivalence what-so-ever. Being encouraged to explore is not the same as denying information. None of that information is denied anyway, it's just not immediately accessible & up-to-date from anywhere in the game world. Besides, nothing you quoted contains even the slightest hint of my opinion regarding the existence & comprehensiveness of the encyclopaedia, which is what you assert that I explicitly do not want. For your reference, here is what you actually said about me:

None of this explains why you believe Taleworlds implementation of the encyclopaedia is unfun. Its just one giant paragraph of an ad hominem.

So I ask you again, Why do you believe in blocking information from the player in the encyclopaedia?

And here is everything I have said both for and against the implementation of the enclycopaedia, how fun it is or isn't, and how much information I want to exclude from it:

The information could be about things that can and will change as time passes in the game. Fief ownership, family trees, relations between lords, and trade potential are all examples of things that change as the game goes on. Having instant, immediate access to this information is taking a long stride towards making the player omniscient, but on the other hand it doesn't have to be hidden away or difficult to access.

I included the second sentence because it clearly displays my sentiment regarding this matter: I don't want it to be a hindrance or a hassle to the player to acquire this information, but I don't want the player to be an all-seeing, all-knowing god either. You don't seem to care about my actual position, though, because you have tried to paint me as the bad guy that wants to stomp all over your fun.

 

[Iberian Wolf]

It was just a cheeky comment mate. But still, your names are actually more credible...

factions are based on real cultures and ancient/dead languages. We could have names on said languages, or a close-to-it version in English. To me it looks like you expect the names to be based (make sense) to a culture you are familiar with, and not the origins of the game groups.

No, not at all...they can choose the names they see fit, but as it is, I find them funny or silly.But to be frank, I am not concerned about names because it will be easy to change them and last but not least - I just play mods. So it's not really important to me. It was just a lighthearted joke, but it seems it ruffled a few feathers.

 

[lolbash]

you have contested the notion that companion names may be randomly generated in this thread (see below) but then made a new thread in support of it, and you claimed this very thread had strong evidence that it was being done. What am I supposed to think of that?

Im not sure if you are reading correctly. Here was how I read the conversation. My interpetation are in bold and red coloring.

We have 2 Aysa, 2 Islena, 2 Kalata and 3 Kela so It seems more generated heroes than preset to me. But still If the game has 3-4 hundred heroes, this might be also the reason of these repetitive names.

Here I believe Bjorn was saying that heroes are generated and that explains why names are repeat

If they were preset would they really be so lazy as to give some people exact same names and titles? The point of the titles is probably to help differentiate them more, but it cant be hard to have the game ensure a name isn't in use before generating a new person with the same one. Unless there really are so many that Taleworlds can't think of enough names...

Here I read vicwiz007 as complaining about how the names are way too similar and how Taleworlds is too lazy to take the time to write more names for the NPCs

Names are easy to think of and can be handled by giving a poor intern who has nohing to do. Also people having two same names are not that rare, as happened to me in real life on occasians. I imagine this is a job Taleworlds is leaving behind to work on more important features and are using a small pool as placeholders.

Here I responded to vicwiz007's comment in defense of Taleworlds regarding lazy names, explaining how Bannerlord is still in development and names are a second handed job that can be easily done but is not priority for developers because they work on more important features, along wth a pointer that people sharing the same name is not as uncommon, thus post was made with the intent to calm VicWiz's concerns down.

Notice how I did not directly call out Bjorn or VicWiz on why he is wrong. Do you read everything I say as an argument against the person?

Im starting to feel as if you are starting to intentionally twist my words to make me look like a troll to find an excuse to ban me from the forums.

I never once mentioned or implied that basic information such as the names & locations of settlements, the names & faction affiliations of lords, etc. should be denied to the player. What shouldn't be readily available at all times--in my opinion--is detailed information such as trading values, individual fief ownership (i.e. which lord owns a fief, not which faction), family relations for various lords, and inter-lord relations. If you read my first post in this thread, you will find that these are the specific examples I gave there as well

This actually makes much more sense. But since you were speaking out in defense of DTheHun, I quickly read your post to look for important points to call out. So I admit my mistake here.

However you are not free of guilt.

I don't want it to be a hindrance or a hassle to the player to acquire this information, but I don't want the player to be an all-seeing, all-knowing god either. You don't seem to care about my actual position, though, because you have tried to paint me as the bad guy that wants to stomp all over your fun.

I do care, however, I have repeatedly asked you for your explanation on why you believe in locking content to force players to explore, and instead of clarifying and requoting your old post telling, you resorted to calling me a troll, explaining how I am a contrararian and how I should be taking lessons and read the forum rules, and posting those images of soccer coaches and meme text.



So yes, I have made a mistake, I have read too fast and dragged this argument for 3 pages, but you should also be reflectin on yourself too. Just because you are a moderator does not mean you are invincible against human error. Next time instead of ad hominem attacks it would be worth quoting and highlighting important posts, and focus on the argument, not the actual person. We could have easily avoided this argument if you had quoted your old sensible pist instead of calling me a troll and telling me to read the forum rules.

 

[Orion]

I should not have to repeat myself, and I no longer will when interacting with you. Therefore, I have nothing more to say to you. Do what you want, just know that there will be consequences if you conduct yourself inappropriately.

 

[DtheHun]

I feel myself a bit guilty for the rankling debate. I just felt like if there's a choice to start the game as a hillbilly game poacher my starting knowledge of the game world should reflects my choice. If I chose to start as a noble born, I should know much more, like the pedigree of the lords of the bordering nations. I think information gathering (exploration) is not some fantasy RPG only ****, it is an important step before tactical choices. If a significant part of the player base want to play it in Total War style, give them
"Life changes. You became... a Quiz Master" character generation choice, I don't mind.

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

Interesting as many including me want Bannerlord to be in Total War style despite unpopularity of series, but BL not will featuring till 10,000 men because FPS/TPS setup

 

[Roccoflipside]

That is a nice idea in theory, I can already see creating problems for the people that hate exploration.

For example, if I were to uninstall Bannerlord and reinstall, do I need to find a 100% save file on the internet? Then now players who do not care for exploration must go on websites that are hidding behind referral links and virus ads to find a file for their Bannerlord copy to unlock a feature.

If it is not save as a save file then it means they modify the game files itself and now players if they reinstall Bannerlord on say a new gaming PC or on a laptop to travel must go online and ask other players for game files to replace with their own. This presents issues with legality of the law as copying and pasting the game and giving it to other people, is Piracy.

In addition, why are you so intent on forcing players to explore? How can you make exploration more fun than it is already is? As I said before, players who explore will explore, and players who do not explore, will choose not to explore, and forcing players who do not like to explore only serves to hurt the playerbase. So how will shoving exploration down throats make the game fun?

If I may quote the same post as before, I believe the underlined portion here (which I ignored in my previous post) are the type of posts Orion is referring to. It's not necessarily what you're saying, but the wording that, especially through the faceless text-post, can come off as aggressive and argumentative. You have a tendency of including anyone arguing against you, no matter their actual position on the subject, as one conglomerate. Then you imply that this group has asked for things far beyond and above what most, if not all, of the posters have said. This comes across as dismissive, as though you hadn't even read the post (a feeling which I expressed multiple times before).

I will say, our discussion since I quoted your same post, with the opposite underlined, has been civil and straightforward, and I hope we can continue discussions in this manner.

 

[dorens]

Good day! Sorry for bad English (I use an interpreter). I do not know where to write. The question of crafting weapons. Will there be swords from Damascus steel or bulat?

 

[hiul]

with the same companion name and someone mention looter as culture, i expect them to use or cameoing the ancestor of rolf the son of rolf from the most ancient and puissant  house of rolf from the mountain bandit culture in gamescom, seems like a good opportunity.

 

[Hopseflop]

Nice troop tree  , would be nice if this could also be done for a family tree for the characters.

Like, say, a family tree? That would be pretty cool! You can see all the members of a clan through the clan screen in the encyclopaedia, but to have their relationship to each other visually laid out in a tree would be nice. Passing the idea on.

Yeah, like you could show the whole clan and when you click on a specific character of the clan it would go to another screen to show his family members. Could be handy if you want to marry in to a family and see the family members. Also you would have a better idea about the specific hierarchy within the clan.

 

[aaaa1]

Vakken?

Darshi?

Why are the different Clans (like sons of the forest) not in their own categories (like looters)?

 

[NPC99]

Vakken?

Darshi?

Why are the different Clans (like sons of the forest) not in their own categories (like looters)?

I presume that Clans & Minor Factions are part of the six factions at the top of the filter whereas Vakken, Darshi & Nord are full factions in their own right.

And of course we have a faction based on the Varangians, the fearsome Nord guardsmen of the Emperor, who in the tumult after Arenicos' death have formed a mercenary outfit.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/261550/announcements/detail/2740874571647160868


Note the Nords above are refered to as a faction.

Where as the Wolfskins etc below are refered to as minor factions:

隐藏

Battania
One of the Battanian minor factions is the Wolfskins - a society of young warriors who have left their clans to live a life of freedom (and violence) in the woods. So long as they live 'as wolves' - eating no cooked meat, sleeping under no roof, and wearing no woven cloth - they are exempt from the laws of men. The Wolfskins are inspired by the Fianna, a fighting brotherhood who were the stars of a major Irish saga. It treats them as heroes, but they also have a dark side, extorting money from clans who are interested in mundane things like marriage and crops and don't have time to fight all the time. Simon Young, a historian who wrote a brilliantly entertaining reconstruction of "darkest Britain," AD 500, suggests that the Fianna may in reality have given rise to legends of werewolves. The Code of the Wolf however is our own invention.

https://ansionnachfionn.com/seanchas-mythology/na-fianna/

Khuzait Khanate
And for those holdouts who would never submit to a khagan no matter what security or riches he offers, we have a minor faction, the Karakhergits, who keep the old ways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_migration#Rouran_and_Tie-le

Valandia
The Vlandians will have their share of minor factions. As with the Battanians and Khuzaits, these serve to emphasize the origins of the kingdom. For example, players who wish to emulate the adventurers who founded the Vlandian (and Norman) kingdoms can seek their fortunes with the Company of the Golden Boar, mercenaries who are based on medieval outfits like the Catalan or Free Companies.

http://byzantinemilitary.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-catalan-company-byzantine.html


Sturgia
Among the Sturgian minor factions are the Skolderbroda, a mercenary brotherhood based on the (possibly legendary) Jomsvikings of the Baltic. The Finnic tribes meanwhile are represented by the Sons of the Forest, a semi- nomadic clan that practices swidden slash-and-burn agriculture in the depths of the woods.

http://www.ancientpages.com/2016/04/26/mysterious-jomsvikings-fearless-scandinavian-warrior-brotherhood/
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php?t=3273

Aserai
The Aserai, like all Bannerlord cultures, will have minor factions. The Jawwal are Bedouin nomads, like those who plagued caliphs, sultans and kings throughout Islamic history. And though our reference point is late antiquity and the very early medieval era, we've also introduced some institutions that thrived under the caliphs. The Ghilman, a brotherhood of slave-warriors, represent the forerunners to the Mamluks who fought for and later came to dominate the caliphate. Aserai towns meanwhile will be dominated by the back-alley mafias who feature in tales of urban Middle Eastern life, from The Thousand and One Nights to the novels of Naguib Mahfouz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazi_(warrior)
http://listverse.com/2018/03/25/10-bloody-facts-about-the-mamluks/

Empire
As in all the realms of Calradia, regional variation throughout the empire will be shown largely through minor factions. Imperial border areas tend to be rougher and more chaotic than the heartland, and in the game are represented by frontiersmen. Though fiercely loyal to the empire, they adopt many of the ways of the warrior-tribes they face, from weaponry to a preference for blood feud over courts of law. The Watchers, in the northern hill country, represent the Akritai, the famous Byzantine borderers of Anatolia. In the south and east, colonies of fugitives and free-spirited wanderers have learned to live and ride like the steppe peoples they fight, forming the Eleftheroi. These are based on the Cossacks -- Third Rome rather than Second, admittedly but probably not much different than those who guarded the Byzantines' Black Sea frontiers. And of course we have a faction based on the Varangians, the fearsome Nord guardsmen of the Emperor, who in the tumult after Arenicos' death have formed a mercenary outfit.

http://byzantinemilitary.blogspot.com/2014/03/akritai-byzantine-border-troops.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars
https://www.realmofhistory.com/2016/04/20/10-fascinating-facts-varangian-guard/

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

Interesting stuff quoted by NPC99, minor factions are even cool

 

[Lord Engineer (Castor)]

So... does anyone have any concrete information about the key symbol in the troop tree?.

Also the amount of icons is sort of odd to me.

So far people have suggested that the sword represents one-handed proficiency, the bow represents archery, the axe represents polearms (poleaxes?), the shield represents shield proficiency, and the key represents um... something else('key' skills?).

Now this leaves me with a couple questions,

What about two-handed, crossbow, and throwing proficiences?

隐藏: Are crossbows even in the game?

I know they were mentioned in a previous development blog (Blog 5) but I think that was more of an example and I can't remember any gameplay footage of them. And ballistas are not the same thing.

Edit:There are crossbows, I just missed them

Since when was there shield proficiency?, are we getting a new proficiency?

Is the 'shield' symbol not even a shield at all and just kind of looks like one? If so what does it represent?

How come we don't have a glorious firearms proficiency?

I would really like to know what the key represents, it's kind of been bugging me for a couple of days now.



After some thought, and some rereading of the dev blog, I have come to think that the symbols don't represent proficiencies. At least not directly.

I'm not sure what they would represent instead, I just don't think they represent straight skill proficiencies.

Also the dev blog didn't say the symbols represent 'skill proficiencies', it said 'skill levels', and in the previous iterations of Mount & Blade we already have something called Skills.

隐藏: To quote the latest development blog

"The trees show the branches which each unit can take during a promotion as well as the skill levels of each individual unit. "

So there

P.S. Love the artwork for the categories in the encyclopaedia, the UI looks easier to use, and I can't wait to learn more about clans!

Edit:Thanks Gab-AG, slightly embarrassed now but at least I know there are crossbows now

 

[Silen]

隐藏: Are crossbows even in the game?

I know they were mentioned in a previous development blog (Blog 5) but I think that was more of an example and I can't remember any gameplay footage of them. And ballistas are not the same thing.

You can see crossbows in this video:

 

[Lord Engineer (Castor)]

Good day! Sorry for bad English (I use an interpreter). I do not know where to write. The question of crafting weapons. Will there be swords from Damascus steel or bulat?

To answer your question: I doubt it.

If I recall correctly, so far there has been little to no mention of the actual material used in weapon crafting.

Instead it seems to focus on the individual parts themselves and the attributes they hold.

While I personally wouldn't mind wootz steel (like Damascus, and Bulat), I haven't seen any hint of their inclusion into Bannerlord.

Also if there was wootz steel weapons they would probably be rare or not a part of the weapon crafting, for game balance.

 

[DtheHun]

While weapons won't suffer durability loss, material is just a texture issue. I think, it's possible to have some grainy steel blades.