Dev Blog 09/05/19

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[parsehtml]<p><img class="frame" src="https://www.taleworlds.com/Images/News/blog_post_89_taleworldswebsite.jpg" alt="" width="575" height="290" /></p> <p>In the words of Omar Bradley, “Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics”. So buckle up for some serious professional talk, because in this week’s blog we'll be covering supply in Bannerlord -- both how to get the food and other materials that you need, and how to deny them to your enemy!</p></br> [/parsehtml]Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/109
 
shalgam said:
My question for Onurcan Dönmez is: Will castles serve their purpose? I mean, in Warband, we could pass near enemy castles without any trouble. For example, in our war with the Rhodoks, we could travel to Jelkala passing lots of castles and nothing would stop us. Bandits also could wander around cities and castles without any problem. They don't control any area. An example would be Asugan Castle, it should have had critical importance due to their control on Sarranid-Khergit border. But I can't see any there. In Bannerlord, I'd like to see that enemy lords won't troll me sieging my capital without needing to capture any border castles.

Historically there was nothing stopping a force from completely ignoring a castle and moving right past it. The reason invading armies didn't ignore castle's was because they needed the food the defending people had stored in the castle or because if they bypassed the castle and relied on supply trains from their homeland those supply trains could be raided by the people in the castle. This means the invading force had to leave men behind to guard the supply train if it wanted to bypass the castle. The only thing stopping bandits from wandering wherever they like is a superior military force that is hostile to them. There is no reason why they shouldn't run around near castles and cities. In fact I would expect bandits near cities raiding caravans and killing farmers. The reason you can ignore castles in warband is because you can carry 30 days worth of food with you.
 
Castles like Sungetche and Nelag shouldn’t allow you through the mountain pass unless you pass through the castle. But Castles in open plains shouldn’t restrict your movements at all
 
shalgam said:
My question for Onurcan Dönmez is: Will castles serve their purpose?
That's not QA-related.
You should ask something like: would you leave many bugs in the game because you secretly hate your job?

JuanNieve said:
Will it be possible to expel a member of our clan? Can they expel us from our clan? XD
And is it automatic if you go on a friendly fire spree?
 
KhergitLancer99 said:
LordTheodore said:
Questions for Onurcan Dönmez
1. How many hours does it take to play through 30 in game years. A rough estimate is fine.
2. Which faction(s) tend to be eliminated first.
3. Which faction(s) tend to expand and get bigger

First question is good.
But for the second and third ones arent they supposed to be balanced so that every tine you start a new campaign a differebt outcome happens ?

Though for warband I can say Khergits always expand fast at first then lose everything.

moreover two or more weak faction(s) will join together for defensing one strong faction(s), it supposed to be balanced.

let it be three factions A, B & C
if A kill C,
then B waiting to dead,
therefore B join C to defense A
When time of B and C going kill A,
B try to agreement with A to prevent C become strong, versa vice.

LordTheodore said:
shalgam said:
My question for Onurcan Dönmez is: Will castles serve their purpose? I mean, in Warband, we could pass near enemy castles without any trouble. For example, in our war with the Rhodoks, we could travel to Jelkala passing lots of castles and nothing would stop us. Bandits also could wander around cities and castles without any problem. They don't control any area. An example would be Asugan Castle, it should have had critical importance due to their control on Sarranid-Khergit border. But I can't see any there. In Bannerlord, I'd like to see that enemy lords won't troll me sieging my capital without needing to capture any border castles.

Historically there was nothing stopping a force from completely ignoring a castle and moving right past it. The reason invading armies didn't ignore castle's was because they needed the food the defending people had stored in the castle or because if they bypassed the castle and relied on supply trains from their homeland those supply trains could be raided by the people in the castle. This means the invading force had to leave men behind to guard the supply train if it wanted to bypass the castle. The only thing stopping bandits from wandering wherever they like is a superior military force that is hostile to them. There is no reason why they shouldn't run around near castles and cities. In fact I would expect bandits near cities raiding caravans and killing farmers. The reason you can ignore castles in warband is because you can carry 30 days worth of food with you.

The M-Form Society increase bandits troops. 
enhanced-buzz-29057-1401239654-10.jpg

Carry 30 days worth of food can ignore castles,
Average person should drink atleast 2 liters of water every day, eats 2.5 kgs (approx.) of cooked food.
village to town/castles may be within one day travel.

Terco_Viejo said:
578 said:
When steam community is holding torch and fork towards you but you still give them secret information. Callum is into BDSM for sure.

Guess where the non-inclusion of ambushes was affirmed...  :meh:


make youselve visibility lower = ambushes
16:00

1 will bandits troops meet wild animal at night?
2 will bandits bandits fight each other?
3 will caravans and farmers walk at night? why they not sleep motel at night?
4 who harvest if killing farmer? will about to capture them to my village?
 
panem said:
Average person should drink atleast 2 liters of water every day, eats 2.5 kgs (approx.) of cooked food.

I can't believe the average is 2.5 kilograms a day. That's crazy.

I believe your "source" is this (the top answer), because it's the exact same wording down to the (approx.) part. I wasn't able to find any actual real sources on that, so I'm a little suspicious of that claim.

The other articles I could find (like this, which also comes to a total of around 2.5kg) also lack real sources. And they reference Americans (I'm assuming USA, not the whole of Americas), which is probably bringing that number up significantly compared to the rest of the world.

Did people back in the olden days eat and require as much food as we do today? I'm inclined to think that maybe not, but I'd love to hear more on this topic if someone knows this area.

However I try to calculate my own consumption, I can't come even close to 2.5kg/day. I'm probably missing something vital, but even then the difference just is too high.

Edit: Obviously people participating in a war and marching would ideally require more than your average layman, but I bet the reality in wars is more towards the actual consumption being less than the average. Still, 2.5kg seems hefty.

Edit2: Re-reading this post I realize it comes off argumentative, which wasn't my intention. I'm genuinely curious about this and would like to know more if someone knows about this stuff.
 
I have no idea about the weight of what I eat daily (2.5kg of cooked food does sound high though), but in terms of calories I think the modern recommended/ideal diet would be lower than a medieval ideal diet. As you said, soldiers would have needed more energy than us, but to a lesser extent so would most people, because the majority of people in all ancient and medieval cultures were engaged in manual activities such as farming. There was very little mechanisation to take the toil out of routine daily tasks.
 
NPC99 said:
If one of your lieutenants wins a great victory on his own, it should still count towards the greater glory of your clan. Equally, if your minions attend sieges without supplies and their troops just guzzle those brought by the Lords from other clans your total clan influence should decline. Either way, we would still need to check that our underlings help rather than hinder our political bid to replace the current faction leader.
That's not what TW told us about influence.

You only lose influence when you spend it. If you spend by hiring allies to a glorious victory, then the influence reward would be bigger than the cost, therefore increasing your actual power. If you spend influence just to find a massive defeat in the end, then your overall influence will drop as well.
Good relations with lords will enable lower influence costs for help.

For me this a very well conceived system that looks very interesting.
 
FBohler said:
NPC99 said:
If one of your lieutenants wins a great victory on his own, it should still count towards the greater glory of your clan. Equally, if your minions attend sieges without supplies and their troops just guzzle those brought by the Lords from other clans your total clan influence should decline. Either way, we would still need to check that our underlings help rather than hinder our political bid to replace the current faction leader.
That's not what TW told us about influence.

You only lose influence when you spend it. If you spend by hiring allies to a glorious victory, then the influence reward would be bigger than the cost, therefore increasing your actual power. If you spend influence just to find a massive defeat in the end, then your overall influence will drop as well.
Good relations with lords will enable lower influence costs for help.

For me this a very well conceived system that looks very interesting.

In certain circumstances ‘spending’ is compulsory:

different parties in the same army pool their food together, with those that run out of food spending influence in exchange for supplies. This avoids cases where some parties in the army are starving while others are lugging sacks brimming over with grain.
https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/109

Your clan’s underlings will have their own parties, which will participate in sieges and may run out of food, costing them/you influence when their troops are supplied from the army’s pooled supplies.
 
this is a logistics system that I suggested in a topic long ago.


INTRODUCTION:
As someone has pointed out, it happens in M ​​& B that entire armies of a faction turn their attention to a small castle of an opposing faction located on the opposite side of the world just because its garrison is with few men, perhaps in relation to some recent evidence which has decreed this condition.
It is clear that a large army or more armies must move along the map and therefore must bring food for humans.
At stake, in a few words, we fill the food inventory and then we start with the attack.
This leads the enemy to defend himself in his territory by coming to us from the front, or, if he can avoid us, to go to our territory to create problems.
But it is difficult to happen because since we started a lot ahead of them, we could have time to do what we have to and get back in time to stop them.
In reality, the armies that march on the front must have a constant supply line of provisions, weapons and more.
So I thought: why not make sure that a LINE OF SUPPLY is established between the point in the map where you are and the last place visited?

HOW THE IDEA IS IMPLEMENTED
(help me to improve it if you like it, in this way, even if in the original game there is not because the times do not allow it, some good soul of a modder, can resume the idea and make the  game more strategic even in the campaign map.)


Imagine the game map in which you move the horse with your pg and around you have the towns / villages / castles and in sight you pass the npc or groups of them, which leave their tracks.
in short .. the usual screen!
enter the city and exit.
go on for a few seconds and you will see behind you a trail that connects you to the city you left behind.
That's your supply line!

Now that you have a clearer picture, let's go specifically.

The strength of this line depends on the place you left behind and allows you not to use the food in the inventory or slow down the consumption, which without the line, suffers quite heavily. (Clearly are parameters to be evaluated, I give only the qualitative idea).
It also affects the MORALE OF THE BATTLE and the QUALITY OF TROOPS.

In this way, an attacking army is forced to attack from several fronts to cover a larger area and prevent the enemy from circling the army to hit the supply line and prevent the advance.

On the other hand, the attacker will also hit the enemy supply line to benefit from the advantages.
one steals part or all of the booty.
Specifically, I would tie this result to the type of attack that is performed.
If you damage the places where these resources are stored.
For example, the use of flaming arrows is likely to cause a chariot to fire.

DEEPENING these lines:
1) the support capacity(goods/ day or goods/week or goods/month and boost of morale) depends on the color of the line and its length, depending on the last place visited and the distance from it.
- Better is the city / castle / village left behind, more towards red is the color of the line, which symbolizes the ability to support.
- the greater the distance from the city that has been left, the longer the line will be and its color will turn towards a colder color.
as with the tracks on mount & blades that turn from red to blue.
A less warm color leads to a less efficient line, due to the difficult management of the supply, given the distance.
We see the line, but not the enemy, at least not seeing the conveyor belt along it (with the spotting ability).
tracking and spotting skills here play a nice role for the enemy.
the quality of the line increases the likelihood that it will be discovered even if no wagon runs through it if the enemy has enough high tracking ability.


HOW TO MAKE THE LINE IN PRACTICAL TERMS?
The reference city has a warehouse with goods, depending on its economy,that can empty or falls below a threshold such that the city decides to interrupt the line.
clearly there are the caravans escorted by the guards, who transport the goods.

HOW MUCH NEED TO TRANSPORT?
These goods reintegrate those in the inventory (food and ammunition).
But clearly travel can not be done to transport the right (which is equal to the consumption of resources between a caravan and the next) and leave half empty wagon, so the player should be given the choice of the amount of goods between discrete values ​​(therefore dimensions of the small / medium / large style wagon or how you prefer to break them down).
So you can choose if you get more than necessary or less than necessary, or at least manage the number of party members to stay on the value you prefer.
The higher the quality of the goods and the quantity, the greater will be the men involved in escorting the caravan.
The amount of excess food involves a boost of morale, even if that food is not present in the inventory.
Also the amount of arrows and darts in excess involves a boost in morale.
If it is smaller, nothing strange happens, it simply consumes part of that inventory.
In this regard, clearly every commodity is exhaustible, as well as arrows and darts.
the caravans travel along the line until they reach the prefix destination (the party, passing from one camp to another).

DEPARTURE TIME:
does the caravan leave weekly? or daily? or maybe monthly?
This is to be decided, I would like to leave this choice to the player, but must also involve some consequences.
The ability to change the departure times of the wagons means that attacking them while traveling, for the enemy is more difficult because he can not know these times without some features that allow it.
So I think that the change in timing should take time and money, as well as the possibility that this schedule of change of timing is discovered by the enemy.
I assume that someone has to carry the order, in the form of a mission, and if he is caught by enemy explorers, the risk is that the timing change does not happen and that the next load is likely to end up in enemy hands.
Or a spy can take the place of the messenger, or the same can betray his faction and deliver a fake order.
All missions that could also be entrusted to us, or that we could create, if circumstances permit.

These caravans are however managed by people and as such they must also go to rest once tired .. they can not always stay awake, or am I wrong?
But we can not make them camp in the middle of the road they travel, as they risk being attacked by bandits or being intercepted by the enemy and have no defense.

In support of this line the camps / outposts come into play.

OUTPOSTS/CAMPS:
2) THEREFORE the support line must be built while traveling, practically building small temporary outposts (like camps).
We spend money,time and resources (wood and other stuff).
Maybe these camps can have different levels, so as to change their defenses and adapt them to different situations.
On construction time I can not say, maybe the different levels of camp can affect this variable.
The number of encampments affects the quality of the line.
The caravans can rest in these camps and then resume their journey to the next one, up to the destination, so that the goods, during the journey, is defended.
The camp that will hold the stocks will be chosen by the player.
It will also be able to divide them into percentages among the various camps instead of assigning them all to the camp closest to the front and the army (in case it is lost).
Each camp has therefore a warehouse that can be filled up to a certain point.


ATTACK ON A SUPPLY LINE:
A) IN OPEN FIELD:
the attack on a supply line in the open field, where there are no camps, requires a short time, such as to allow a defense attempt only to nearby armies arriving in time.

The attacker attacks the supply line, which is damaged until it is interrupted or until the defender fails to defend it.

HOW DOES THIS COME?
the attacker with his party goes to the transporter and starts the classic battle.
BUT THERE IS A TIMER as a function of the nearest defensive unit that in the map approaches the cart intended to protect it.
(it is not said that we can see the timer, but there is the same).
once the time has expired, the enemy appears on the battlefield at the point where he "should have come" and clearly the choice of what will happen depends on the player.
He can stay and fight or escape.
Depending on how damaged the goods and killed the guards will depend on the amount of the booty.

The attacker can decide whether or not to damage the goods based on the type of actions he takes.
if he throws a forest of burning arrows on the wagons, he risks burning everything (it will take many arrows, because it does not have to be easy).
He can also do it and then escape from the battle and slip away.
Strategic choices.

B)IN OUTPOSTS/CAMP:
attacking a supply line in an outposts / camp is different than attacking it in an open field.
It works similarly to a siege, with difficulty level depending on the garrison and the level of defenses.
In addition, the time timer granted before reinforcements from the map is shorter than in the open field.
clearly the goods are protected by a structure, so it is not damaged / obtainable without first conquering the place.


SUPPLY LINES IN RELATION TO RELATIONSHIP/FRIENDSHIP WITH TOWN/CASTEL/VILLAGES AND THEIR OWNER
as the user Terco_Viejo has suggested, the granting of permission to establish the line, or the efficiency of the same, must be linked to the relationship between the PG and the city / village / castle in question.
he also objected to the fatot that castles and villages should provide such support, so I thought to make the optional thing through a screen where you decide to which place or TYPE OF PLACE ASK FOR AUTOMATIC support.
so for example you can exclude villages and castles, except someone selected by us
It is clear that the support depends on the type of place, its economy and the relationship.
In this way my proposal binds to his objection without limiting any of the two.

the granting of the line as well as the relations with the places, I think the geopolitical condition must also be linked.
-Clearly if I am part of the faction A and you are not at war with anyone, I will hardly allow myself to establish such a line with the city of reference.
It is not excluded that it can be granted, but clearly without a specific reason that with regard to the wellbeing of the faction rather than the private one, this concession will damage the relations between the PG and the reference city until the concession is terminated.
-If instead we are at war as a faction, then it is much more likely to grant such support, with a higher tolerance threshold.
-if then we are not part of any faction, then it all depends on how much we and the city of reference are friends ... and clearly friendship must be high and the faction will evaluate our relationships with other factions and our social rank before to grant us this support.
-We could also not exclude the fact that the city of reference is so friendly that it gives us support even if the head of the faction is in disagreement, because maybe his relationship with the city is not the best ...
-In short, the conditions for preparing a revolt are within reach, if we are the one who receives the support.
-And if we are the king and someone is acting in that sense, then we must keep our eyes open on the city of reference and on those who make requests to it.

3) It is clear that each army will have its support line and it is clear that the city itself may not be able to meet the needs of many armies for a long time.
Assuming that there are 2 lines for 2 different armies and one of them loses its own, the latter can hook to that of his ally of the same faction going into one of the camps built by the latter (clearly consuming resources faster) .

SHELTER OR OUR BASE
In case you are not part of any faction and you are against someone, then an important role could take place in the "viking conquest" style shelter, evolving in base camp and maybe in castle / city, according to how the developers can decide to exploit it.
In short, an anchorage point to start from, to return to, to improve, to defend and keep an eye on.
The smaller it remains and the less it is followed, the less likely it is discovered.
It works like a mini-city and from there it is established a supply line with the same methods described above.
In this way even those who are not part of a faction can create an infrastructure that supports it but must also be defended or kept hidden.

IF WE ARE POOR
If we have no possessions, nor a shelter, which in effect can evolve to become a city / castle, then it will be the FORAGING ability to limit the consumption of food in the inventory to the constant number of party members reintegrating a part of the missing one.

These are all operations that do not take a long time, but that greatly influence the strategy on the game map, making cities, castles and villages much more important and their economies very important in order to support an army to invade a border territory .
In addition, the importance of a "marching formation" of the armies, which must protect the line or the lines, must also march trying to cover them and defend them from possible assaults on the shoulders or on the sides.

END.

I thank you for your attention, I hope you will continue this discussion in order to improve the system suggested here.
If so, when you answer, copy in your reply the parts that you share and then implemented with a spoiler style tab is what you want to change, and your change itself, so that those who want to read your arguments, will immediately to compare the change with the original and evaluate which one is more suitable.

here is the link to the topic:
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,381046.0.html
 
darksoulshin said:
this is a logistics system that I suggested in a topic long ago.
INTRODUCTION:
As someone has pointed out, it happens in M ​​& B that entire armies of a faction turn their attention to a small castle of an opposing faction located on the opposite side of the world just because its garrison is with few men, perhaps in relation to some recent evidence which has decreed this condition.
It is clear that a large army or more armies must move along the map and therefore must bring food for humans.
At stake, in a few words, we fill the food inventory and then we start with the attack.
This leads the enemy to defend himself in his territory by coming to us from the front, or, if he can avoid us, to go to our territory to create problems.
But it is difficult to happen because since we started a lot ahead of them, we could have time to do what we have to and get back in time to stop them.
In reality, the armies that march on the front must have a constant supply line of provisions, weapons and more.
So I thought: why not make sure that a LINE OF SUPPLY is established between the point in the map where you are and the last place visited?

HOW THE IDEA IS IMPLEMENTED
(help me to improve it if you like it, in this way, even if in the original game there is not because the times do not allow it, some good soul of a modder, can resume the idea and make the  game more strategic even in the campaign map.)


Imagine the game map in which you move the horse with your pg and around you have the towns / villages / castles and in sight you pass the npc or groups of them, which leave their tracks.
in short .. the usual screen!
enter the city and exit.
go on for a few seconds and you will see behind you a trail that connects you to the city you left behind.
That's your supply line!

Now that you have a clearer picture, let's go specifically.

The strength of this line depends on the place you left behind and allows you not to use the food in the inventory or slow down the consumption, which without the line, suffers quite heavily. (Clearly are parameters to be evaluated, I give only the qualitative idea).
It also affects the MORALE OF THE BATTLE and the QUALITY OF TROOPS.

In this way, an attacking army is forced to attack from several fronts to cover a larger area and prevent the enemy from circling the army to hit the supply line and prevent the advance.

On the other hand, the attacker will also hit the enemy supply line to benefit from the advantages.
one steals part or all of the booty.
Specifically, I would tie this result to the type of attack that is performed.
If you damage the places where these resources are stored.
For example, the use of flaming arrows is likely to cause a chariot to fire.

DEEPENING these lines:
1) the support capacity(goods/ day or goods/week or goods/month and boost of morale) depends on the color of the line and its length, depending on the last place visited and the distance from it.
- Better is the city / castle / village left behind, more towards red is the color of the line, which symbolizes the ability to support.
- the greater the distance from the city that has been left, the longer the line will be and its color will turn towards a colder color.
as with the tracks on mount & blades that turn from red to blue.
A less warm color leads to a less efficient line, due to the difficult management of the supply, given the distance.
We see the line, but not the enemy, at least not seeing the conveyor belt along it (with the spotting ability).
tracking and spotting skills here play a nice role for the enemy.
the quality of the line increases the likelihood that it will be discovered even if no wagon runs through it if the enemy has enough high tracking ability.


HOW TO MAKE THE LINE IN PRACTICAL TERMS?
The reference city has a warehouse with goods, depending on its economy,that can empty or falls below a threshold such that the city decides to interrupt the line.
clearly there are the caravans escorted by the guards, who transport the goods.

HOW MUCH NEED TO TRANSPORT?
These goods reintegrate those in the inventory (food and ammunition).
But clearly travel can not be done to transport the right (which is equal to the consumption of resources between a caravan and the next) and leave half empty wagon, so the player should be given the choice of the amount of goods between discrete values ​​(therefore dimensions of the small / medium / large style wagon or how you prefer to break them down).
So you can choose if you get more than necessary or less than necessary, or at least manage the number of party members to stay on the value you prefer.
The higher the quality of the goods and the quantity, the greater will be the men involved in escorting the caravan.
The amount of excess food involves a boost of morale, even if that food is not present in the inventory.
Also the amount of arrows and darts in excess involves a boost in morale.
If it is smaller, nothing strange happens, it simply consumes part of that inventory.
In this regard, clearly every commodity is exhaustible, as well as arrows and darts.
the caravans travel along the line until they reach the prefix destination (the party, passing from one camp to another).

DEPARTURE TIME:
does the caravan leave weekly? or daily? or maybe monthly?
This is to be decided, I would like to leave this choice to the player, but must also involve some consequences.
The ability to change the departure times of the wagons means that attacking them while traveling, for the enemy is more difficult because he can not know these times without some features that allow it.
So I think that the change in timing should take time and money, as well as the possibility that this schedule of change of timing is discovered by the enemy.
I assume that someone has to carry the order, in the form of a mission, and if he is caught by enemy explorers, the risk is that the timing change does not happen and that the next load is likely to end up in enemy hands.
Or a spy can take the place of the messenger, or the same can betray his faction and deliver a fake order.
All missions that could also be entrusted to us, or that we could create, if circumstances permit.

These caravans are however managed by people and as such they must also go to rest once tired .. they can not always stay awake, or am I wrong?
But we can not make them camp in the middle of the road they travel, as they risk being attacked by bandits or being intercepted by the enemy and have no defense.

In support of this line the camps / outposts come into play.

OUTPOSTS/CAMPS:
2) THEREFORE the support line must be built while traveling, practically building small temporary outposts (like camps).
We spend money,time and resources (wood and other stuff).
Maybe these camps can have different levels, so as to change their defenses and adapt them to different situations.
On construction time I can not say, maybe the different levels of camp can affect this variable.
The number of encampments affects the quality of the line.
The caravans can rest in these camps and then resume their journey to the next one, up to the destination, so that the goods, during the journey, is defended.
The camp that will hold the stocks will be chosen by the player.
It will also be able to divide them into percentages among the various camps instead of assigning them all to the camp closest to the front and the army (in case it is lost).
Each camp has therefore a warehouse that can be filled up to a certain point.


ATTACK ON A SUPPLY LINE:
A) IN OPEN FIELD:
the attack on a supply line in the open field, where there are no camps, requires a short time, such as to allow a defense attempt only to nearby armies arriving in time.

The attacker attacks the supply line, which is damaged until it is interrupted or until the defender fails to defend it.

HOW DOES THIS COME?
the attacker with his party goes to the transporter and starts the classic battle.
BUT THERE IS A TIMER as a function of the nearest defensive unit that in the map approaches the cart intended to protect it.
(it is not said that we can see the timer, but there is the same).
once the time has expired, the enemy appears on the battlefield at the point where he "should have come" and clearly the choice of what will happen depends on the player.
He can stay and fight or escape.
Depending on how damaged the goods and killed the guards will depend on the amount of the booty.

The attacker can decide whether or not to damage the goods based on the type of actions he takes.
if he throws a forest of burning arrows on the wagons, he risks burning everything (it will take many arrows, because it does not have to be easy).
He can also do it and then escape from the battle and slip away.
Strategic choices.

B)IN OUTPOSTS/CAMP:
attacking a supply line in an outposts / camp is different than attacking it in an open field.
It works similarly to a siege, with difficulty level depending on the garrison and the level of defenses.
In addition, the time timer granted before reinforcements from the map is shorter than in the open field.
clearly the goods are protected by a structure, so it is not damaged / obtainable without first conquering the place.


SUPPLY LINES IN RELATION TO RELATIONSHIP/FRIENDSHIP WITH TOWN/CASTEL/VILLAGES AND THEIR OWNER
as the user Terco_Viejo has suggested, the granting of permission to establish the line, or the efficiency of the same, must be linked to the relationship between the PG and the city / village / castle in question.
he also objected to the fatot that castles and villages should provide such support, so I thought to make the optional thing through a screen where you decide to which place or TYPE OF PLACE ASK FOR AUTOMATIC support.
so for example you can exclude villages and castles, except someone selected by us
It is clear that the support depends on the type of place, its economy and the relationship.
In this way my proposal binds to his objection without limiting any of the two.

the granting of the line as well as the relations with the places, I think the geopolitical condition must also be linked.
-Clearly if I am part of the faction A and you are not at war with anyone, I will hardly allow myself to establish such a line with the city of reference.
It is not excluded that it can be granted, but clearly without a specific reason that with regard to the wellbeing of the faction rather than the private one, this concession will damage the relations between the PG and the reference city until the concession is terminated.
-If instead we are at war as a faction, then it is much more likely to grant such support, with a higher tolerance threshold.
-if then we are not part of any faction, then it all depends on how much we and the city of reference are friends ... and clearly friendship must be high and the faction will evaluate our relationships with other factions and our social rank before to grant us this support.
-We could also not exclude the fact that the city of reference is so friendly that it gives us support even if the head of the faction is in disagreement, because maybe his relationship with the city is not the best ...
-In short, the conditions for preparing a revolt are within reach, if we are the one who receives the support.
-And if we are the king and someone is acting in that sense, then we must keep our eyes open on the city of reference and on those who make requests to it.

3) It is clear that each army will have its support line and it is clear that the city itself may not be able to meet the needs of many armies for a long time.
Assuming that there are 2 lines for 2 different armies and one of them loses its own, the latter can hook to that of his ally of the same faction going into one of the camps built by the latter (clearly consuming resources faster) .

SHELTER OR OUR BASE
In case you are not part of any faction and you are against someone, then an important role could take place in the "viking conquest" style shelter, evolving in base camp and maybe in castle / city, according to how the developers can decide to exploit it.
In short, an anchorage point to start from, to return to, to improve, to defend and keep an eye on.
The smaller it remains and the less it is followed, the less likely it is discovered.
It works like a mini-city and from there it is established a supply line with the same methods described above.
In this way even those who are not part of a faction can create an infrastructure that supports it but must also be defended or kept hidden.

IF WE ARE POOR
If we have no possessions, nor a shelter, which in effect can evolve to become a city / castle, then it will be the FORAGING ability to limit the consumption of food in the inventory to the constant number of party members reintegrating a part of the missing one.

These are all operations that do not take a long time, but that greatly influence the strategy on the game map, making cities, castles and villages much more important and their economies very important in order to support an army to invade a border territory .
In addition, the importance of a "marching formation" of the armies, which must protect the line or the lines, must also march trying to cover them and defend them from possible assaults on the shoulders or on the sides.

END.

I thank you for your attention, I hope you will continue this discussion in order to improve the system suggested here.
If so, when you answer, copy in your reply the parts that you share and then implemented with a spoiler style tab is what you want to change, and your change itself, so that those who want to read your arguments, will immediately to compare the change with the original and evaluate which one is more suitable.

here is the link to the topic:
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,381046.0.html

Didn't you already post this exact same thing earlier in the thread? I mean I'm not commenting on the actual content of that wall of text, but it feels like mentioning it once should likely be enough for one thread. I get that you're excited to get feedback on your idea (or whatever it is you're looking for posting it multiple times), but it feels a little spammy to keep mentioning it here like this.
 
Devs

This strange effect still exists when a figure or element is overlaid with water.

3nYZ8oB.jpg


In this video it is better appreciated; surely more than one had noticed this failure as well.
13:46 min. Notice how this failure interacts with the spear and javelins.
 
Will there be battles on bridges? Does the flow of the rivers vary depending on the season? So that depending on the season, the troops are forced to use the bridge
 
orgrinrt said:
darksoulshin said:
this is a logistics system that I suggested in a topic long ago.
INTRODUCTION:
As someone has pointed out, it happens in M ​​& B that entire armies of a faction turn their attention to a small castle of an opposing faction located on the opposite side of the world just because its garrison is with few men, perhaps in relation to some recent evidence which has decreed this condition.
It is clear that a large army or more armies must move along the map and therefore must bring food for humans.
At stake, in a few words, we fill the food inventory and then we start with the attack.
This leads the enemy to defend himself in his territory by coming to us from the front, or, if he can avoid us, to go to our territory to create problems.
But it is difficult to happen because since we started a lot ahead of them, we could have time to do what we have to and get back in time to stop them.
In reality, the armies that march on the front must have a constant supply line of provisions, weapons and more.
So I thought: why not make sure that a LINE OF SUPPLY is established between the point in the map where you are and the last place visited?

HOW THE IDEA IS IMPLEMENTED
(help me to improve it if you like it, in this way, even if in the original game there is not because the times do not allow it, some good soul of a modder, can resume the idea and make the  game more strategic even in the campaign map.)


Imagine the game map in which you move the horse with your pg and around you have the towns / villages / castles and in sight you pass the npc or groups of them, which leave their tracks.
in short .. the usual screen!
enter the city and exit.
go on for a few seconds and you will see behind you a trail that connects you to the city you left behind.
That's your supply line!

Now that you have a clearer picture, let's go specifically.

The strength of this line depends on the place you left behind and allows you not to use the food in the inventory or slow down the consumption, which without the line, suffers quite heavily. (Clearly are parameters to be evaluated, I give only the qualitative idea).
It also affects the MORALE OF THE BATTLE and the QUALITY OF TROOPS.

In this way, an attacking army is forced to attack from several fronts to cover a larger area and prevent the enemy from circling the army to hit the supply line and prevent the advance.

On the other hand, the attacker will also hit the enemy supply line to benefit from the advantages.
one steals part or all of the booty.
Specifically, I would tie this result to the type of attack that is performed.
If you damage the places where these resources are stored.
For example, the use of flaming arrows is likely to cause a chariot to fire.

DEEPENING these lines:
1) the support capacity(goods/ day or goods/week or goods/month and boost of morale) depends on the color of the line and its length, depending on the last place visited and the distance from it.
- Better is the city / castle / village left behind, more towards red is the color of the line, which symbolizes the ability to support.
- the greater the distance from the city that has been left, the longer the line will be and its color will turn towards a colder color.
as with the tracks on mount & blades that turn from red to blue.
A less warm color leads to a less efficient line, due to the difficult management of the supply, given the distance.
We see the line, but not the enemy, at least not seeing the conveyor belt along it (with the spotting ability).
tracking and spotting skills here play a nice role for the enemy.
the quality of the line increases the likelihood that it will be discovered even if no wagon runs through it if the enemy has enough high tracking ability.


HOW TO MAKE THE LINE IN PRACTICAL TERMS?
The reference city has a warehouse with goods, depending on its economy,that can empty or falls below a threshold such that the city decides to interrupt the line.
clearly there are the caravans escorted by the guards, who transport the goods.

HOW MUCH NEED TO TRANSPORT?
These goods reintegrate those in the inventory (food and ammunition).
But clearly travel can not be done to transport the right (which is equal to the consumption of resources between a caravan and the next) and leave half empty wagon, so the player should be given the choice of the amount of goods between discrete values ​​(therefore dimensions of the small / medium / large style wagon or how you prefer to break them down).
So you can choose if you get more than necessary or less than necessary, or at least manage the number of party members to stay on the value you prefer.
The higher the quality of the goods and the quantity, the greater will be the men involved in escorting the caravan.
The amount of excess food involves a boost of morale, even if that food is not present in the inventory.
Also the amount of arrows and darts in excess involves a boost in morale.
If it is smaller, nothing strange happens, it simply consumes part of that inventory.
In this regard, clearly every commodity is exhaustible, as well as arrows and darts.
the caravans travel along the line until they reach the prefix destination (the party, passing from one camp to another).

DEPARTURE TIME:
does the caravan leave weekly? or daily? or maybe monthly?
This is to be decided, I would like to leave this choice to the player, but must also involve some consequences.
The ability to change the departure times of the wagons means that attacking them while traveling, for the enemy is more difficult because he can not know these times without some features that allow it.
So I think that the change in timing should take time and money, as well as the possibility that this schedule of change of timing is discovered by the enemy.
I assume that someone has to carry the order, in the form of a mission, and if he is caught by enemy explorers, the risk is that the timing change does not happen and that the next load is likely to end up in enemy hands.
Or a spy can take the place of the messenger, or the same can betray his faction and deliver a fake order.
All missions that could also be entrusted to us, or that we could create, if circumstances permit.

These caravans are however managed by people and as such they must also go to rest once tired .. they can not always stay awake, or am I wrong?
But we can not make them camp in the middle of the road they travel, as they risk being attacked by bandits or being intercepted by the enemy and have no defense.

In support of this line the camps / outposts come into play.

OUTPOSTS/CAMPS:
2) THEREFORE the support line must be built while traveling, practically building small temporary outposts (like camps).
We spend money,time and resources (wood and other stuff).
Maybe these camps can have different levels, so as to change their defenses and adapt them to different situations.
On construction time I can not say, maybe the different levels of camp can affect this variable.
The number of encampments affects the quality of the line.
The caravans can rest in these camps and then resume their journey to the next one, up to the destination, so that the goods, during the journey, is defended.
The camp that will hold the stocks will be chosen by the player.
It will also be able to divide them into percentages among the various camps instead of assigning them all to the camp closest to the front and the army (in case it is lost).
Each camp has therefore a warehouse that can be filled up to a certain point.


ATTACK ON A SUPPLY LINE:
A) IN OPEN FIELD:
the attack on a supply line in the open field, where there are no camps, requires a short time, such as to allow a defense attempt only to nearby armies arriving in time.

The attacker attacks the supply line, which is damaged until it is interrupted or until the defender fails to defend it.

HOW DOES THIS COME?
the attacker with his party goes to the transporter and starts the classic battle.
BUT THERE IS A TIMER as a function of the nearest defensive unit that in the map approaches the cart intended to protect it.
(it is not said that we can see the timer, but there is the same).
once the time has expired, the enemy appears on the battlefield at the point where he "should have come" and clearly the choice of what will happen depends on the player.
He can stay and fight or escape.
Depending on how damaged the goods and killed the guards will depend on the amount of the booty.

The attacker can decide whether or not to damage the goods based on the type of actions he takes.
if he throws a forest of burning arrows on the wagons, he risks burning everything (it will take many arrows, because it does not have to be easy).
He can also do it and then escape from the battle and slip away.
Strategic choices.

B)IN OUTPOSTS/CAMP:
attacking a supply line in an outposts / camp is different than attacking it in an open field.
It works similarly to a siege, with difficulty level depending on the garrison and the level of defenses.
In addition, the time timer granted before reinforcements from the map is shorter than in the open field.
clearly the goods are protected by a structure, so it is not damaged / obtainable without first conquering the place.


SUPPLY LINES IN RELATION TO RELATIONSHIP/FRIENDSHIP WITH TOWN/CASTEL/VILLAGES AND THEIR OWNER
as the user Terco_Viejo has suggested, the granting of permission to establish the line, or the efficiency of the same, must be linked to the relationship between the PG and the city / village / castle in question.
he also objected to the fatot that castles and villages should provide such support, so I thought to make the optional thing through a screen where you decide to which place or TYPE OF PLACE ASK FOR AUTOMATIC support.
so for example you can exclude villages and castles, except someone selected by us
It is clear that the support depends on the type of place, its economy and the relationship.
In this way my proposal binds to his objection without limiting any of the two.

the granting of the line as well as the relations with the places, I think the geopolitical condition must also be linked.
-Clearly if I am part of the faction A and you are not at war with anyone, I will hardly allow myself to establish such a line with the city of reference.
It is not excluded that it can be granted, but clearly without a specific reason that with regard to the wellbeing of the faction rather than the private one, this concession will damage the relations between the PG and the reference city until the concession is terminated.
-If instead we are at war as a faction, then it is much more likely to grant such support, with a higher tolerance threshold.
-if then we are not part of any faction, then it all depends on how much we and the city of reference are friends ... and clearly friendship must be high and the faction will evaluate our relationships with other factions and our social rank before to grant us this support.
-We could also not exclude the fact that the city of reference is so friendly that it gives us support even if the head of the faction is in disagreement, because maybe his relationship with the city is not the best ...
-In short, the conditions for preparing a revolt are within reach, if we are the one who receives the support.
-And if we are the king and someone is acting in that sense, then we must keep our eyes open on the city of reference and on those who make requests to it.

3) It is clear that each army will have its support line and it is clear that the city itself may not be able to meet the needs of many armies for a long time.
Assuming that there are 2 lines for 2 different armies and one of them loses its own, the latter can hook to that of his ally of the same faction going into one of the camps built by the latter (clearly consuming resources faster) .

SHELTER OR OUR BASE
In case you are not part of any faction and you are against someone, then an important role could take place in the "viking conquest" style shelter, evolving in base camp and maybe in castle / city, according to how the developers can decide to exploit it.
In short, an anchorage point to start from, to return to, to improve, to defend and keep an eye on.
The smaller it remains and the less it is followed, the less likely it is discovered.
It works like a mini-city and from there it is established a supply line with the same methods described above.
In this way even those who are not part of a faction can create an infrastructure that supports it but must also be defended or kept hidden.

IF WE ARE POOR
If we have no possessions, nor a shelter, which in effect can evolve to become a city / castle, then it will be the FORAGING ability to limit the consumption of food in the inventory to the constant number of party members reintegrating a part of the missing one.

These are all operations that do not take a long time, but that greatly influence the strategy on the game map, making cities, castles and villages much more important and their economies very important in order to support an army to invade a border territory .
In addition, the importance of a "marching formation" of the armies, which must protect the line or the lines, must also march trying to cover them and defend them from possible assaults on the shoulders or on the sides.

END.

I thank you for your attention, I hope you will continue this discussion in order to improve the system suggested here.
If so, when you answer, copy in your reply the parts that you share and then implemented with a spoiler style tab is what you want to change, and your change itself, so that those who want to read your arguments, will immediately to compare the change with the original and evaluate which one is more suitable.

here is the link to the topic:
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,381046.0.html

Didn't you already post this exact same thing earlier in the thread? I mean I'm not commenting on the actual content of that wall of text, but it feels like mentioning it once should likely be enough for one thread. I get that you're excited to get feedback on your idea (or whatever it is you're looking for posting it multiple times), but it feels a little spammy to keep mentioning it here like this.

I understand what you mean, I didn't mean to spam.
Since I had not received any reply and since I had inserted it in the spoiler to avoid clogging the page, I thought that given the sudden access and the number of comments, simply no one noticed.
On 7 pages of messages I posted it only a second time.
And in several months I could have posted it several times on various devblogs, but I didn't do it because it didn't fit into the context of the discussion.
Here I reposted it without spoilers so that it was a little more visible and because it was part of the context.

Rather what do you think?
 
Terco_Viejo said:
Devs

This strange effect still exists when a figure or element is overlaid with water.
3nYZ8oB.jpg


In this video it is better appreciated; surely more than one had noticed this failure as well.
13:46 min. Notice how this failure interacts with the spear and javelins.

Interesting spot. For the palm trees on the campaign map it looks as though their alpha masks aren’t as transparent as they should be, which could also be the case re the order flag. I’ve no idea why or why the same effect appears with weapons.
 
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