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<p>3D artists give shape to the world we see and experience in a video game. But the devil is in the details, and sometimes what makes a game live and breathe are the small things: not the main characters and impressive buildings, but day-to-day objects such as tools, weapons, and clothes. Gameplay can be as immersive as can be to make you feel like a medieval warrior, but if you’re clothed in sweatpants and the world around you is made of cardboard, immersion jumps out of the window. Today, we talk with one of our 3D artists, Ülker Dikmen, who is one of the people responsible for making Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord not just beautiful, but also a believable world.</p></br> [/parsehtml]Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/84
Dev Blog 01/11/18
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Noudelle said:I did. It doesn't worry me too much though since it seems like character customization is much more extensive in Bannerlord, and this character was probably created using it. So I think it's normal that proportions might me a little off.Kentai said:Really loved this entry. Thanks for providing it. The characters and cloth simulation look great! I'm a bit concerned about the character proportions in the gif though. This could be an illusion created by the long mid-section of the dress, but it seems like either her torso is too long for a female or her legs are too short. It also seems like her hips should be a bit wider. The widest part of her hips is barely wider than her head. Still a very good-looking character and again a lot of what I'm seeing could be because of the shape of the dress.
Hopefully the randomly generated characters' proportions will be a bit more realistic.
Edited my comment a bit while you replied. Hopefully I didn't change too much lol. Yeah you're right. With sliders we can do what we want.
Did some tweaking in Photoshop and this felt right to me.
Kentai said:Noudelle said:I did. It doesn't worry me too much though since it seems like character customization is much more extensive in Bannerlord, and this character was probably created using it. So I think it's normal that proportions might me a little off.Kentai said:Really loved this entry. Thanks for providing it. The characters and cloth simulation look great! I'm a bit concerned about the character proportions in the gif though. This could be an illusion created by the long mid-section of the dress, but it seems like either her torso is too long for a female or her legs are too short. It also seems like her hips should be a bit wider. The widest part of her hips is barely wider than her head. Still a very good-looking character and again a lot of what I'm seeing could be because of the shape of the dress.
Hopefully the randomly generated characters' proportions will be a bit more realistic.
Edited my comment a bit while you replied. Hopefully I didn't change too much lol. Yeah you're right. With sliders we can do what we want.
Did some tweaking in Photoshop and this felt right to me.
You’re probably too used to seeing women wearing heels to give themselves extra height etc.
Kentai said:NPC99 said:You’re probably too used to seeing women wearing heels to give themselves extra height etc.
Maybe so lol, but they'd have to be stilettos because I made her like half a head taller. Still doesn't explain the lack of hip bones though. :/
Just another example of the range of body shapes that are now possible with the Bannerlord character creator. She looks better than a male TW used whose girth was so wide that it stretched the armour texture even when he was stationery.
NPC99 said:Just another example of the range of body shapes that are now possible with the Bannerlord character creator. She looks better than a male TW used whose girth was so wide that it stretched the armour texture even when he was stationery.
Haha, very true. It's still leagues better than the character meshes in Warband and could be a demonstration of the body types. I accept that I'm definitely nitpicking but it's a slow rainy day at work.
White Lion
Regular
xdj1nn said:SatelliteJedi said:
Being a woman in gaming world must be a real pain, I mean, just look at the relevance of this comment
You act like he insulted her entire family. I do agree that was cringey as hell but you over dramatize it.
Oh God ...
Gabriel the Red Lion said:
Yeah, because how dare she be inspired by relevant media!
EmjeR
Recruit
This is exactly why history based creations never improve in terms of historical value. It's basically a century long game of telephone. People base there work on the interpretation of the interpretation of the interpretation of the interpretation of someone who once looked at actual history references.
In my work I do the opposite, I look at the history books, reconstructions and papers first, and after that at movies and tv shows to help fill in the gaps or make it more artistic...
Sigh..
Mr.EmjeR said:
What kind of work do you do? I agree that history is always viewed through filters, btw, just wondering what job keeps you in such close contact with history.
EmjeR
Recruit
Roccoflipside said:
I create historical VR experiences, games and animations for museums and Heritage organisations. I come from a game background, and I very much try to bridge the gap between the traditionally boring bad looking reconstructions, and the interesting but often unground games and movies.
DtheHun said:
You are correct. but you are mistaken in the idea that entertainment based on history has not much appeal, and can't sell. It's understandable, since it has barely been tried. The thing is that there are barely any people who know how to make appealing interesting stuff, that know about history or how to research properly. And on the other side the people that do know about the history don't know how to make appealing stuff. and those two groups rarely work together.
Take for example modern war movies. lets look at Dunkirk for example. if we ignore the story for a bit, we can see that everything is pretty authentic. Is the movie less appealing because airplanes don't have 4 wings or are not made of glass?
I'm not saying I want all the movies to be historical movies. And i'm also not arguing with your point that time a movie is made can have and maybe should have influences of that time in it. Yes Robin hood of today can look different than robin hood frm 10 years ago. The problem that I have an issue with is that those robin hoods are not different interpretations of the source material, but they are interpretations of each other.
Lets say I want to make a movie about a greek war, and i want it to be fantasy. What i can do is take a look at Troy or 300, take their designs and change them again to make my own ideas. Which means my work will be an interpretation of an interpretation of an interpretation. and the end result has likely nothing to do with the greeks anymore.
OR I can read some history books, watch some historical artworks, some documentaries (have some issues as well) and create my fantasy work as well, the end result is an original fantasy interpretation that probably has a lot more to d with the greeks directly and I don't fall in the trap of clichés.
I don't expect movies/games/books to be educational, but I do expect their makers to be educated in whatever their subject is based on. They should do the boring research to give you a very original entertaining work.
In terms of games The witcher and Kingdom come are very entertaining appealing games and they went the route of doing actual source research. This is why it saddens me to learn that my most favorite game has Hollywood as their inspiration and source instead of History.
DtheHun
Sergeant Knight
Maybe I'm cynical, but I think 9 of 10 creatives will chose effortless way: Watching two or three movies with popcorn in the genre, and make some doodles with cool looking heroic cliches, aligning it to the actual product design trends to impress the producer, leaving the boring research for boring reserchears, and leaving more time to express themself.
EmjeR
Recruit
DtheHun said:
I always find it interesting, because it seems within the art world that the level of research that is thought is not the same in every discipline.
Character artist are told to research anatomy from the first day they start. And it's engraved in their brains that even if you do fantasy creatures, a thorough knowledge of real anatomy is going to yield you better results.
But in the hardsurface art world, this doesn't appear to be thought as much. And whenever I speak with different type of artists, both of kinds very often have a very different attitude towards research. The latter more often saying: well as long is think it looks nice, it's fine right?
It's more about attitude than actual time. 10 minutes research vs 0 is going to make a world of difference.
Take swords for example: most people think they know what a sword looks like without looking at one. but few people will get it correct right away. But you only need to do a quick YouTube search, watch a video or two from the sword enthusiast community and you will know how a sword works.
It's suprising how many creations you see on artstation of Flintlock pistols that miss some very important parts. while a 5 minute YouTube video of one of these guns being loaded and fired would have thought the creator everything they needed to know.
I find it most sad when some artworks are really amazing and the artist spend 20 hours working on a piece. But then you realize all they did in research was the first picture they found on google.
My main reason is why research is important is because it gives you more artistic control over your work. You can't decide not to do something if you didn't know you could do it before hand.
Dear developer;
Are Batannians retarded? Do they not wash their clothes? Do they enjoy being dirty? Do you enjoy being dirty? Were the clothes of the batannians made by ancient aliens and they have no way to repair them?
Why are these people getting shat on? What did they ever do to you?
Sewing was a past time, medieval women made their clothes to relieve boredom. I can't imagine them letting their clothes slide into such a poor state, or to so haphazardly add a pocket like the one in the woman's dress. These Batannians need to sort their act out. No wonder they lose.
Give us clean shirts, beautiful cloaks and fancy tartan trousers, and remember that basically everyone lived by a river and had a lot of free time for personal maintenance.
Are Batannians retarded? Do they not wash their clothes? Do they enjoy being dirty? Do you enjoy being dirty? Were the clothes of the batannians made by ancient aliens and they have no way to repair them?
Why are these people getting shat on? What did they ever do to you?
Sewing was a past time, medieval women made their clothes to relieve boredom. I can't imagine them letting their clothes slide into such a poor state, or to so haphazardly add a pocket like the one in the woman's dress. These Batannians need to sort their act out. No wonder they lose.
Give us clean shirts, beautiful cloaks and fancy tartan trousers, and remember that basically everyone lived by a river and had a lot of free time for personal maintenance.
Innocent Flower said:
It was sadly all too common in a feuldal system for the poorest folk to own nothing more than the clothes on their back. But most people, even peasants, weren't quite that poor. People usually had at least two sets of clothes: everyday wear and the equivalent of "Sunday best," which would not only be worn to church (at least once a week, often more frequently) but to social events, as well. Virtually every woman, and many men, were capable of sewing, if only just a little, and garments were patched and mended for years. Garments and good linen undergarments were even bequeathed to heirs or donated to the poor when their owner died.
More prosperous peasants and artisans would often have several suits of clothes and more than one pair of shoes, depending on their needs. But the amount of clothing in any medieval person's wardrobe, even a royal personage, couldn't come near what modern people usually have in their closets today.
https://www.thoughtco.com/european-peasant-dress-1788614
Washing in the Middle Ages. Washing away from the river:
As culture developed, population grew, and cities became booming urban centres, a river bed and a pile of rocks were no longer sufficient for many people. Several items designed to aid with the washing process therefore become commonplace, including large wooden washtubs and dolly-tubs or possing-tubs – tall tubs in which clothes were beaten and stirred with a plunger. Washing in this period could be incredibly physically demanding and was often undertaken by poor servants and washerwomen on an irregular basis in a gruelling process known as the “great wash”. Indeed, the length and intensity of the washing process (the entire thing often took a few days involving a pre-wash, a 24 hour soaking period, a wash that took about 15 hours on account of the need to continually reheat the lye, a further wash of the lye-soaked linen, and finally a rinsing and drying process), coupled with the fact that people took pride in owning enough linen to avoid the need for frequent washes, made it preferable for households to wash everything at the same time every few weeks. It certainly can’t have been an event that the washers of the time looked forward to!
https://thescrubba.com/blogs/news/how-people-used-to-wash-the-fascinating-history-of-laundry
Innocent Flower said:
I understand you perfectly mate, however this phrase is devastating for the historical rigor:
WHERE DO YOU DRAW YOUR INSPIRATION FROM?
“I draw much of my inspiration from medieval TV shows and movies. We also have a large collection of medieval history books here at TaleWorlds which I check out when I lack inspiration.”
In Bannerlord we are told that the Battanians are inspired by the Celtic peoples of Western Europe and with the little that has been seen (concerning clothing) they look more like the Saxon archetype (furs + huscarl) + archetype film 's robin hood (hoods + arrows) + a little pictish blue paint ... And I do not want to offend anyone but "Celtic" is not "Saxon".
In Battania I miss more tunics (leine) and I have too many furs (which I would destine more to Sturgia).
What is Battania for me by historical and geopolitical context: Dal Riata + Picts + Alt Cult.
I would have been inspired by other sources, but who am I to tell Taleworlds how to do his work.
NPC99 said:
Very nice sources, as usual.
With this in mind, there are still people for whom it makes sense to be dirty and dishevelled most of the time, namely outlaws. Leading an irregular, dangerous life, away from many civilized commodities, scarce as they were, it stands to reason that attention to their wardrobe is not a priority for them. Especially since only on rare occasions would it afford them the societal acceptance and status, that it does for common people.
So I'd say that these clothes do have their place in the game, if they are not overused on regular people in towns and villages.
I was thinking after the fact that maybe, they might work for looters (although looters aught to dress warm... I hope they have different looters for different geography...)
But in the context of the writing, it seems like something for batanians.
And this, here, what's this? Cinderella? Not even slaves are dressed so shabbily. Ramsay bolton treats his women better than this. How hard is it to sew straight? If you're really that strapped for cash, and you're not in post-apocalyptia, why not go for a simple cloak? Why go for -shodilly constructed leather jacket-. Does Calradria have a punk movement?
But in the context of the writing, it seems like something for batanians.
And this, here, what's this? Cinderella? Not even slaves are dressed so shabbily. Ramsay bolton treats his women better than this. How hard is it to sew straight? If you're really that strapped for cash, and you're not in post-apocalyptia, why not go for a simple cloak? Why go for -shodilly constructed leather jacket-. Does Calradria have a punk movement?
The hilarious thing is that raw leather, raw linen, raw hessian and other coarse tough fabrics are either light beige or white until you dye them. Brown muddy clothing makes it look like everyone is intentionally dyeing their clothes boring shades of brown, which is idiotic.
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