Dev Blog 01/11/18

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3D artists give shape to the world we see and experience in a video game. But the devil is in the details, and sometimes what makes a game live and breathe are the small things: not the main characters and impressive buildings, but day-to-day objects such as tools, weapons, and clothes. Gameplay can be as immersive as can be to make you feel like a medieval warrior, but if you’re clothed in sweatpants and the world around you is made of cardboard, immersion jumps out of the window. Today, we talk with one of our 3D artists, Ülker Dikmen, who is one of the people responsible for making Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord not just beautiful, but also a believable world.


Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/84
 

lolbash

Master Knight
WBNWVCWF&S
anarchy said:
They actually delete comments. I guess only comments they want people to read stay.

Considering your comment only focused on the Developer's body and not the actual Developer Blog content, I support the Moderator's decision of removing your comment.
 

Duh

Duke
M&BWB
Aye, if it is unclear for folks - no comments on the physical appearance of developers are permitted.
 

FBohler

Knight
WBNWWF&S
charger said:
The physics do look brilliant, hope they do something with the hair though....that looks pretty rigid.

My thoughts exactly.

But hair physics seems to be way more complicated to implement / optimize than cloth physics.
 

Noudelle

Grandmaster Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
FBohler said:
charger said:
The physics do look brilliant, hope they do something with the hair though....that looks pretty rigid.

My thoughts exactly.

But hair physics seems to be way more complicated to implement / optimize than cloth physics.
I'm excited to see what modders will cook up in that regard. Hair physics that is.
 

dr4gunov

Regular
Noudelle said:
I'm excited to see what modders will cook up in that regard. Hair physics that is.

giphy.gif


? :grin:
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Noudelle said:
I'm excited to see what modders will cook up in that regard. Hair physics that is.

I really don't understand that generalized view of wild conformism. Well... the moders will do it, well... it will come in a dlc, blah blah blah... that's how it goes.  :meh:

RoadWarriror said:
Hair physics is very easy. I'm sure it will be added.

Developer Blog 1 (old ones)
One of the current focuses of the artists is on character hair. Hair is a great challenge for all games; simulating realistic movement and texture when you have so many individual strands moving separately is incredibly resource intensive, when done in real time. Some games use certain techniques to improve the simulation, while saving resources but in a game like Mount&Blade, where you may have 100s of characters on screen, the balancing act becomes significantly more difficult. Our current working method is: a textured base (something like a hair coloured swimming cap) with groups of hair strands (rendered onto polygons with alpha channels) moving in various directions to give a natural look. This adds more depth than the method used in warband, which relied on the texture to give depth to the hair

Personally, I would prefer to take advantage of the benefits of improving the physics of cloth. A solution in the form of superimposed layers of cloth/hair could simulate the effect satisfactorily without consuming as many resources as hairworks or tressfx.
Take a look at the test2 of the sample video to see how it achieves a natural effect. (Long hair effect)


(Short hair effect)

 
I love watchng the hair physics of bouncing horse manes, however horses don’t need to wear helmets. When it comes to people, hair needs to be compatible with helmets. A lot of Bannerlord helmets still have the built in coifs that M&B used to totally remove hair and potential clipping. I would rather have a boring but viable partial hair covering solution, which allowed helmets without coifs and no clipping, than full flowing hair, which forced us to have no hair visible when helmeted.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
NPC99 said:
I love watchng the hair physics of bouncing horse manes, however horses don’t need to wear helmets. When it comes to people, hair needs to be compatible with helmets. A lot of Bannerlord helmets still have the built in coifs that M&B used to totally remove hair and potential clipping. I would rather have a boring but viable partial hair covering solution, which allowed helmets without coifs and no clipping, than full flowing hair, which forced us to have no hair visible when helmeted.

Yes, one of the problems that would arise would be the unsightly clipping that would suffer the pc/npc. Hair and headgear don't get along very well; the best thing is the Hair Under Headgear mod for Skyrim and still the clipping is wild:
36517-5-1369794920.jpg

Option without headgear: what I have commented before,
Option with headgear: "boring but viable partial hair covering solution".
Easy
 
Terco_Viejo said:
NPC99 said:
I love watchng the hair physics of bouncing horse manes, however horses don’t need to wear helmets. When it comes to people, hair needs to be compatible with helmets. A lot of Bannerlord helmets still have the built in coifs that M&B used to totally remove hair and potential clipping. I would rather have a boring but viable partial hair covering solution, which allowed helmets without coifs and no clipping, than full flowing hair, which forced us to have no hair visible when helmeted.

Yes, one of the problems that would arise would be the unsightly clipping that would suffer the pc/npc. Hair and headgear don't get along very well; the best thing is the Hair Under Headgear mod for Skyrim and still the clipping is wild:
36517-5-1369794920.jpg

Option with headgear: what I have commented before,
option without headgear: "boring but viable partial hair covering solution".
Easy

I’d swap the with and without and I think that might require two different hair systems.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
NPC99 said:
Terco_Viejo said:
NPC99 said:
I love watchng the hair physics of bouncing horse manes, however horses don’t need to wear helmets. When it comes to people, hair needs to be compatible with helmets. A lot of Bannerlord helmets still have the built in coifs that M&B used to totally remove hair and potential clipping. I would rather have a boring but viable partial hair covering solution, which allowed helmets without coifs and no clipping, than full flowing hair, which forced us to have no hair visible when helmeted.

Yes, one of the problems that would arise would be the unsightly clipping that would suffer the pc/npc. Hair and headgear don't get along very well; the best thing is the Hair Under Headgear mod for Skyrim and still the clipping is wild:
36517-5-1369794920.jpg

Option with headgear: what I have commented before,
option without headgear: "boring but viable partial hair covering solution".
Easy

I’d swap the with and without and I think that might require two different hair systems.

Edited. I put it the other way around what I wanted to do.  :oops: :lol:
 

Quiet_Monk

Sergeant at Arms
Anybody who's ever tried a medieval helm without a coif under would tell you not to do it.  It's really uncomfortable, doesn't really protect against blows + hair gets stuck. I'd go with partial physic with long hair on character when not wearing a helmet and no hair when helmet on.
 

Noudelle

Grandmaster Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
Terco_Viejo said:
Noudelle said:
I'm excited to see what modders will cook up in that regard. Hair physics that is.

I really don't understand that generalized view of wild conformism. Well... the moders will do it, well... it will come in a dlc, blah blah blah... that's how it goes.  :meh:
Wild conformism? The way I see it, I don't want TW to spend too much time on something as banal and inconsequential as hair physics. Especially considering that hair won't be visible on the character models most of the time anyway. I'd rather they spend their time and resource elsewhere.
That being said, I'd still like to have hair physics in the game. So I am excited to see what kind of medusa-headed monstrosities that modders will cook up.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Noudelle said:
Terco_Viejo said:
Noudelle said:
I'm excited to see what modders will cook up in that regard. Hair physics that is.

I really don't understand that generalized view of wild conformism. Well... the moders will do it, well... it will come in a dlc, blah blah blah... that's how it goes.  :meh:
Wild conformism? The way I see it, I don't want TW to spend too much time on something as banal and inconsequential as hair physics. Especially considering that hair won't be visible on the character models most of the time anyway. I'd rather they spend their time and resource elsewhere.
That being said, I'd still like to have hair physics in the game. So I am excited to see what kind of medusa-headed monstrosities that modders will cook up.

I don't want to go into polemic without meaning but understand partner, that what is banal for you is not banal for another.  To give you an example, why do I have to wait for a dlc patch (whatever you want to call it) to find the naval combat?. With this I want to make you understand that labeling something banal is where conformism appears. Evidently I don't expect to find flying dragons as a mount because modders will take care of in future, but let me consider a minimum of movement with physics in the hair of the pc / npc as banal as you think.
The more complete Bannerlord is in terms of details, mechanics, dynamics, possibilities, etc., BETTER.

 
Terco_Viejo said:
To give you an example, why do I have to wait for a dlc patch (whatever you want to call it) to find the naval combat?
Because devs decided it would be waste of resources to try to implement it now and add to development time. The main theme is surrounding kingdoms trying to tear apart an Empire that is already torn by civil war. The short answer they gave on why naval combat won't be in mentions adding faraway lands (probably Nord homeland) giving an actual purpose to sea travel.

That's probably why it was dropped in the vanilla as well - too much assets, balancing and working hours required for something that isn't vital to the gameplay. Features of the game have to be queued and not all of them will end up being added. Some of them will only get in as a base for future development.

That being said, more power to you. If the devs pass by and see your complaints and consider them valid they may act accordingly - it worked for Yaga.
 

Noudelle

Grandmaster Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
Terco_Viejo said:
Noudelle said:
Terco_Viejo said:
Noudelle said:
I'm excited to see what modders will cook up in that regard. Hair physics that is.

I really don't understand that generalized view of wild conformism. Well... the moders will do it, well... it will come in a dlc, blah blah blah... that's how it goes.  :meh:
Wild conformism? The way I see it, I don't want TW to spend too much time on something as banal and inconsequential as hair physics. Especially considering that hair won't be visible on the character models most of the time anyway. I'd rather they spend their time and resource elsewhere.
That being said, I'd still like to have hair physics in the game. So I am excited to see what kind of medusa-headed monstrosities that modders will cook up.

I don't want to go into polemic without meaning but understand partner, that what is banal for you is not banal for another.  To give you an example, why do I have to wait for a dlc patch (whatever you want to call it) to find the naval combat?.
So that the game comes out faster. I also would like for there to be naval combat in Bannerlord. But I don't think it's an important part enough of the game to warrant any further delays.
With this I want to make you understand that labeling something banal is where conformism appears.
It can, but in this case it's a matter of trade-off. Don't spend time developping what (I personally think) is a banal feature in favor of something that could add more to the overall experience.
Evidently I don't expect to find flying dragons as a mount because modders will take care of in future, but let me consider a minimum of movement with physics in the hair of the pc / npc as banal as you think.
Sure, again, I understand that you might think that. It's perfectly understandeable. But I don't agree with it. And it's not because I disagree with you on, again, what I consider to be a banal feature, that I'm somehow a conformist who'll gladly swallow anything TW gives me without thinking.
The more complete Bannerlord is in terms of details, mechanics, dynamics, possibilities, etc., BETTER.
That's undeniably true, but again, I'd rather they focus on just finishing the game as quickly as possible so that we can finally play it. And then, they can add whatever they want in the future.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Do not look here said:
Terco_Viejo said:
To give you an example, why do I have to wait for a dlc patch (whatever you want to call it) to find the naval combat?
Because devs decided it would be waste of resources to try to implement it now and add to development time. The main theme is surrounding kingdoms trying to tear apart an Empire that is already torn by civil war. The short answer they gave on why naval combat won't be in mentions adding faraway lands (probably Nord homeland) giving an actual purpose to sea travel.

That's probably why it was dropped in the vanilla as well - too much assets, balancing and working hours required for something that isn't vital to the gameplay. Features of the game have to be queued and not all of them will end up being added. Some of them will only get in as a base for future development.

That being said, more power to you. If the devs pass by and see your complaints and consider them valid they may act accordingly - it worked for Yaga.

Noudelle said:
Terco_Viejo said:
Noudelle said:
Terco_Viejo said:
Noudelle said:
I'm excited to see what modders will cook up in that regard. Hair physics that is.

I really don't understand that generalized view of wild conformism. Well... the moders will do it, well... it will come in a dlc, blah blah blah... that's how it goes.  :meh:
Wild conformism? The way I see it, I don't want TW to spend too much time on something as banal and inconsequential as hair physics. Especially considering that hair won't be visible on the character models most of the time anyway. I'd rather they spend their time and resource elsewhere.
That being said, I'd still like to have hair physics in the game. So I am excited to see what kind of medusa-headed monstrosities that modders will cook up.

I don't want to go into polemic without meaning but understand partner, that what is banal for you is not banal for another.  To give you an example, why do I have to wait for a dlc patch (whatever you want to call it) to find the naval combat?.
So that the game comes out faster. I also would like for there to be naval combat in Bannerlord. But I don't think it's an important part enough of the game to warrant any further delays.
With this I want to make you understand that labeling something banal is where conformism appears.
It can, but in this case it's a matter of trade-off. Don't spend time developping what (I personally think) is a banal feature in favor of something that could add more to the overall experience.
Evidently I don't expect to find flying dragons as a mount because modders will take care of in future, but let me consider a minimum of movement with physics in the hair of the pc / npc as banal as you think.
Sure, again, I understand that you might think that. It's perfectly understandeable. But I don't agree with it. And it's not because I disagree with you on, again, what I consider to be a banal feature, that I'm somehow a conformist who'll gladly swallow anything TW gives me without thinking.
The more complete Bannerlord is in terms of details, mechanics, dynamics, possibilities, etc., BETTER.
That's undeniably true, but again, I'd rather they focus on just finishing the game as quickly as possible so that we can finally play it. And then, they can add whatever they want in the future.

Maybe the naval combat wasn't quite right example. What about hunting? I don't know... I think you have understood me, let's hug each other and think about Bannerlord coming out soon and that all those things we dream of will appear in the final version.  :iamamoron:

stranger-things-hug-gif.gif
 

anarchy

Recruit
Lolbash said:
anarchy said:
They actually delete comments. I guess only comments they want people to read stay.

Considering your comment only focused on the Developer's body and not the actual Developer Blog content, I support the Moderator's decision of removing your comment.

there was nothing wrong with my comment. others that said similar things stayed. they didn't like what i said after that i assume. most likely the part about distracting the masses
 
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