Destroying doors in murder holes with axes

[Bladerider]

In 2:51 after destroying the first gate with the battering ram the attacking soldiers hit the second doors to break them. None of them is using an axe. The weapons they use are one handed swords and maces.
I think that it would be good to make it so only axes can destroy this kind of defenses because it is more credible and it encourages the use of different weapons instead of having weapons able to do all tasks.
Anyway, it is...weird how the trunks are attached with ropes that are totally exposed instead of being together with nails.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

Wasnt crafting nails very hard in medieval times ?
Also you can group your shock inf under a different category and tell them to handle the door while keeping the swordsmen back.
If you are suggesting it as a commander AI behaviour. Yeah I agree.
At least smart lords should order this.

 

[Bladerider]

Wasnt crafting nails very hard in medieval times ?
Also you can group your shock inf under a different category and tell them to handle the door while keeping the swordsmen back.
If you are suggesting it as a commander AI behaviour. Yeah I agree.
At least smart lords should order this.

It is not necessary to be nails, it can be other kind of joint. It is just that this kind of doors are supposed to be an obstacle to the enemy. Having them tied together with exposed ropes is a bad idea for that task.
I am suggesting it as making it so all weapons except axes have a really hard time to destroy the doors if they can at all. Of course commander AI behaviour would need to be fixed to adapt to it.

 

[lolbash]

I think that it would be good to make it so only axes can destroy this kind of defenses

it encourages the use of different weapons

There is a difference between encouragement and forcing.

You are forcing people to carry an axe in sieges. I would just make it so axes do bonus damage to doors or something as encouragement. Not make it so swords are handicapped in sieges.

 

[John the Roleplayer]

Wasnt crafting nails very hard in medieval times ?
[...]

They were actually fairly easy to make (for a smith that is). But of course metal was valuable so using them for construction would raise the cost of a gate or door considerably. A studded gate however is still cheaper than having an additional portcullis, so it might be a balanced choice between cost and defensive value.

 

[Bladerider]

I think that it would be good to make it so only axes can destroy this kind of defenses

it encourages the use of different weapons

There is a difference between encouragement and forcing.

You are forcing people to carry an axe in sieges. I would just make it so axes do bonus damage to doors or something as encouragement. Not make it so swords are handicapped in sieges.

Well, you always can use the siege tower, the ladders or wait until some mates have destroyed the doors instead of attacking the doors in the first line. With four slots for weapons it isn't  that hard to add an axe either.
Anyway, if it is only a bonus, the difference of time that you are exposed in the murder hole should be very high to make it worth it the use of axes.

 

[lolbash]

Except the axes are already useul in that they can input much higher raw damage than other one handed melee weapons, and have bonus damage against shields. If you add in a bonus like "axes do 5 times more damage to walls," then we have balancing issues.

For example, this would make it so spamming a group of one handed axemen would be the only viable strat for sieges since their axe bonus can easily destroy massive wood barriers in seconds.

This would severely nerf factions that are less likely to be using axes, like for example, the Vlandians, and nerf swords even more.

Axes are already a fine weapon choice and do not need buffs. I would agree with you if you suggested something such as "1.15 bonus damage to wood barriers" but you are asking to make units unable to break doors and handicapping their options in sieges is going overboard.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

Wasnt crafting nails very hard in medieval times ?
[...]

They were actually fairly easy to make (for a smith that is). But of course metal was valuable so using them for construction would raise the cost of a gate or door considerably. A studded gate however is still cheaper than having an additional portcullis, so it might be a balanced choice between cost and defensive value.

Keep in mind that they constructed them not back in their town but during the siege. In the outskirts of the besieged city.

 

[vicwiz007]

It would be pretty bad for gameplay if you did this. Not every faction has wide use of axes, and the murder hole is a large part of sieges. So youd either have to change factions, thus making them less unique and believable, or change the way sieges work. Not gonna happen :l

 

[Bjorn The Broken]

I will not say axes should have 2-3 times more damage to wooden doors but there might be a slight advantage though. When it comes to the argument of gameplay or balance issues, I think that factions should not be balanced to a certain level in terms of besieged or besieging as it was in Warband.

 

[John the Roleplayer]

Wasnt crafting nails very hard in medieval times ?
[...]

They were actually fairly easy to make (for a smith that is). But of course metal was valuable so using them for construction would raise the cost of a gate or door considerably. A studded gate however is still cheaper than having an additional portcullis, so it might be a balanced choice between cost and defensive value.

Keep in mind that they constructed them not back in their town but during the siege. In the outskirts of the besieged city.

Well, during the siege the outskirts of the besieged place would be controlled by the besieger. So I don't think production could continue there. Some work to strengthen the gates can be done while the siege is ongoing, but studding the gate would require opening it and being outside. Maybe that could be done under cover of your own archers, but it seems very risky.

 

[jamieroyle]

Axes already have a bonus against shields in Warband (as Rainbow said). You could maybe just think of the gates as a big shield, and apply the same bonus?  Perhaps as the castle level increase, the quality of the gates does too and so the bonus (alongside overall damage) is reduced?

 

[Bladerider]

Except the axes are already useul in that they can input much higher raw damage than other one handed melee weapons, and have bonus damage against shields. If you add in a bonus like "axes do 5 times more damage to walls," then we have balancing issues.

For example, this would make it so spamming a group of one handed axemen would be the only viable strat for sieges since their axe bonus can easily destroy massive wood barriers in seconds.

This would severely nerf factions that are less likely to be using axes, like for example, the Vlandians, and nerf swords even more.

Axes are already a fine weapon choice and do not need buffs. I would agree with you if you suggested something such as "1.15 bonus damage to wood barriers" but you are asking to make units unable to break doors and handicapping their options in sieges is going overboard.

I said axes but it can be all the weapons with bonus against shields and aply the same bonus against the doors as jamieroyle has suggested. All factions have weapons with this bonus in Warband and it will probably be the same in Bannerlord.
Anyway it wouldn't be a balance problem between factions because it is balanced in other circumstances. For example vlandians will have the best heavy cavalry that would give them an advantage over sturgians in open field battles since sturgians lack good heavy cavalry if they have any at all.

Axes already have a bonus against shields in Warband (as Rainbow said). You could maybe just think of the gates as a big shield, and apply the same bonus?  Perhaps as the castle level increase, the quality of the gates does too and so the bonus (alongside overall damage) is reduced?

Good point.

I will not say axes should have 2-3 times more damage to wooden doors but there might be a slight advantage though. When it comes to the argument of gameplay or balance issues, I think that factions should not be balanced to a certain level in terms of besieged or besieging as it was in Warband.

If you mean having factions that are better in the field while others are stronger in sieges I agree. In fact, if all of them are equaly good at all tasks then it would be a bit like clone wars, without real differences in playstyle between factions.

 

[Triune Impurity Rites 999]

I think it is an interesting idea, sure, but honestly most combat-oriented axes were not designed for the heavy use of chopping wood. Not saying that they couldn't be used that way, but they wouldn't be as effective as their tool counterpart. I think for the purposes of the game, it is better just to leave this particular aspect alone. You could always design a mod with engineers of some sort who carry tools for opening gates.

 

[Crowcorrector]

I think it's a good idea to give the axes a  bonus vs doors just like they have a anti shield bonus.  Nerfing swords would be  abit too extra.  This would definitely increase that 'Oooooh sh*t" when you see a force of Battanians and Not-Nords sieging your castle

 

[Akesh the Cursed]

An easy fix is for axes to receive a bonus as other have stated, that probably works best for the balanced gameplay vs. realism argument

studding the gate would require opening it and being outside. Maybe that could be done under cover of your own archers, but it seems very risky.

You will need some very brave men to go outside the gate and then having the gate closed on them so they can work on it.