[DESIGN FLAW] No reinforcements in bandit lairs
- 主题发起人 Ringwraith #5
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Such as? Given that I have to resort to outright cheating, I'd appreciate any help.Archonsod 说:
Precisely because of that. Low level = few enemies. Try when you're some 20 levels higher.Elfy 说:
Jericho
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Elfy 说:
I've imported my 62nd level uber character to see the extreme limits of the combat engine...I took out the sea raider lair with several 20th level companions and I was the only one to barely survive after 108 sea raiders had spawned. Very tough fight and after running out of arrows I picked up spent or dropped javelins and axes and had two shields broken. - It was fun!
...BUT The quest definitely could use at least a wave or two of limited reinforcements for the player.
miollnir
Recruit
Some maps are more easy : sea raiders are hard, but not THAT hard because the map is flat, simple to understand, with few respawn points, and you can hide behind the boats, etc...
Forest bandits? It just crazy. They pop up and down, shooting from everywhere, with almost no logic to apply.
You can try every tricks of the book, like pulling, snipe, hit and run with a LOT of micro management of your troops, it's useless, because they POP FROM EVERYWHERE.
Yeah, they are robin hood uber ninjas, right...
IMO you should be able to WIN respawn points, making you able to call some more troops. It will give something like : very hard at start, don't come rushing like an idiot, but ambush one camp at a time without pulling other camps. Some bandits will try to run away to call their friends (like troops fleeing in battle). If they survive, the others camps are aware of your attack, and come rushing (ans start spawning with bow, since they have time to equip)
After a few camps capture, it will become more easy, because you have more troops, and less spawn points to worry about..
In the end, it will but just one camp left, a lot of fighters with you, and a last, massive spawn of bandits from the last camp, fully equipped, and with a boss (something like a bandit lord).
If you capture that boss (25% chance he escape, like every lord), you can give him to the marshall and/or the lord who give you the quest, for him to hang him, and gain some friend points.
OK, this is almost a complete mod, but I love scriptted missions. It will be quit hard, tactical, and rewarding if you manage to win. And it will be consistant with the ambush thing : blow your surprise effect, and get gang-rape to oblivion.
Forest bandits? It just crazy. They pop up and down, shooting from everywhere, with almost no logic to apply.
You can try every tricks of the book, like pulling, snipe, hit and run with a LOT of micro management of your troops, it's useless, because they POP FROM EVERYWHERE.
Yeah, they are robin hood uber ninjas, right...
IMO you should be able to WIN respawn points, making you able to call some more troops. It will give something like : very hard at start, don't come rushing like an idiot, but ambush one camp at a time without pulling other camps. Some bandits will try to run away to call their friends (like troops fleeing in battle). If they survive, the others camps are aware of your attack, and come rushing (ans start spawning with bow, since they have time to equip)
After a few camps capture, it will become more easy, because you have more troops, and less spawn points to worry about..
In the end, it will but just one camp left, a lot of fighters with you, and a last, massive spawn of bandits from the last camp, fully equipped, and with a boss (something like a bandit lord).
If you capture that boss (25% chance he escape, like every lord), you can give him to the marshall and/or the lord who give you the quest, for him to hang him, and gain some friend points.
OK, this is almost a complete mod, but I love scriptted missions. It will be quit hard, tactical, and rewarding if you manage to win. And it will be consistant with the ambush thing : blow your surprise effect, and get gang-rape to oblivion.
miollnir
Recruit
As for the other point : difficulty changing.
I love to have the possibility to play an easy game, if I want to relax and fell like a roxxor with m4d sk11lz.
In fact, for my 2 first characters, I was in easy mode (beeing 2-shots by almost everyone is not helping to understand the game dynamics)
So, now, I can play hardcore, with all options to max, and feel good about myself by doing so.
There is not a lot of games out there without difficulty level.
I guess GTA don't, but face it, GTA games are easy as hell, except one or two badly design missions that you have to replay again and again.
No difficulty mean you have to make your game average. That's awfull, because it will be too hard for some, too easy for other, and good only for the people in your average zone.
But, if you can play 90% of the game at one given difficulty, and you have to change it just for 10% because this part is too hard/easy, well, that is a flaw in gameplay.
I love to have the possibility to play an easy game, if I want to relax and fell like a roxxor with m4d sk11lz.
In fact, for my 2 first characters, I was in easy mode (beeing 2-shots by almost everyone is not helping to understand the game dynamics)
So, now, I can play hardcore, with all options to max, and feel good about myself by doing so.
There is not a lot of games out there without difficulty level.
I guess GTA don't, but face it, GTA games are easy as hell, except one or two badly design missions that you have to replay again and again.
No difficulty mean you have to make your game average. That's awfull, because it will be too hard for some, too easy for other, and good only for the people in your average zone.
But, if you can play 90% of the game at one given difficulty, and you have to change it just for 10% because this part is too hard/easy, well, that is a flaw in gameplay.
reallybigjohnson
Regular
i noticed a trend that most people seem to be having issues with the sea raiders. obviously since they are essentially nords they are better than you average bandit NORDS RULE EVERYONE ELSE DROOLS you have to do a couple of things. one thing that helps is when you are going bandit hunting which i do a lot for selling prisoners since that how i make my bread and butter. thank you tweak MB is to leave most of your troops behind and only take your heroes or the troops you want with you. that way there is no way that the computer can pick anything other than what you want.
is to leave most of your troops behind and only take your heroes or the troops you want with you. that way there is no way that the computer can pick anything other than what you want.
Disagree completely. M&B is precisely the type of game that could easily do without any kind of difficulty slider, because it essentially allows you to pick your difficulty in the game itself as you go along. Want an easy fight? Mop up some looters. Difficult one? Solo a king's party. That's it, that's your difficulty slider right there. What would you need another one for?miollnir 说:
I would also say that IMO the problem isn't that there's a part of the game that's stupidly hard, the problem is that it's stupidly hard for all the wrong reasons. Again, kings' parties are tough, and I don't have a problem with that, because there's a very good reason for it, namely the king has a lot of high-tier troops. The difficulty is natural. With bandit lairs it isn't, the restriction on your reinforcements and the way bandis spawn out of caves that can't be entered are completely arbitrary and artificial.
miollnir
Recruit
Ringwraith #5 说:
What you are saying is that if I don't have the skill or patience to learn how to really be badass, knowing every moves, parades, weapons stats, and other game mechanics, I can't do anything else that killing peasants and looters?
I have to run from any battle, siege attack and such things (since auto-battle is broken and you can't really count on it)?
I can't enjoy all the fun this game have to offer because I am too noob/lazy/no-skill ?
That my friend is a very elitist vision.
Look at the actual market, with console games and such. This game are crazy easy, because people want instant fun, so you have no real challenge.
A game like M&B is quit easy at easy mode, and really challenging at max mode.
So if you want to be hardcore, you can (and that's great, cause it's not happening a lot this days) and if you want to be casual, you also can (and that great too, if you love the game but don't have the time to beat the learning curve)
So it is really a game for everyone, and that is great design.
But again, if you have to change your usual difficulty level for ONE kind of mission, this mission is broken.
Incorrect. Read the thread again; most people are having trouble with the forest and tundra bandits, with new ranged troops spawning in all directions. I was just able to win the sea raider battle at full difficulty, with Vaegir guards and marksmen, as a melee and throwing oriented character picking up javelins and axes to throw back; I have tried the tundra and forest variants many many times (reloading the game) with pretty much the same setup, trying all sorts of tactics, and never got anywhere near completing the missions at all.reallybigjohnson 说:
What do you exactly have to do in those hideouts? just run around and kill everyone or reach some specific spot or somethin? I tried it 2 times but gave up on em for now.
I don't think so. Given that the fun in this game consists of cutting people up, I think it's reasonable to expect players to learn to cut people up. Just like in racing games it's reasonable to expect players to know the basics of racing.miollnir 说:
Personally, the only weapon stat I care about is whether it can be wielded one and two handed, and I choose my armor based on looks. I'd hardly call myself a hardcore gamer, and I've had great success at this game playing at normal difficulty.
Nnnope, I don't think so. Again, it's not that it's this one mission, it's the reason behind it. If the mission was to assault a castle's barracks all on your own, then yeah, it would be reasonable to expect extreme difficulty. But it's not appropriate for a bandit lair.
miollnir
Recruit
Ringwraith #5 说:
Every good car game, and every good simulator of any kind I can think of give you a LOT of difficulty tweaking. manual/auto, AI skill, level of damage, etc... For exemple, Silent Hunter can be a really hardcore submarine simulation, or an almost arcade game of shooting warships.
Your second point i am ok with. The difficulty should be on par with the reward/challenge. An exceptional deed should be hard (even in easiest mode) and an almost mundane one should be, well, mundane. And the lair quest is not only broken because of the raw number of bandits you have to slain (IMO this alone is overkill anyway) but the random respawn thing.
Kleidophoros 说:
Kill all the enemies. The higher level the more will spawn.
Thank you.
Basically the same thing you do in all other quests and missions in this game. Spawn in an area and then keep killing things until you're told you've won.Kleidophoros 说:
Lord Lorkhann
Regular
You just need a little bit of skill, with 5 powerstrike and around 160 one handed proficiency I can finish it with half of my hp. I always look out for those quests because you get 3000 xp and 1500 dinars from it, great to lvl you companions.
miollnir
Recruit
Lord Lorkhann 说:
Well with stats like that, I guess you are NOT level 30, but more like 10 ou 15. Am I right?
The point is : it is doable at low and middle level. It is bat**** crazy at high level. At lvl 22 it seem like you have to slash 200+ robin hood popping from everywhere and snipping you perfecty. You and your 4 pals, of course (pals who survive something like 3 minutes, 5 minutes if they are Huscarl)
It's important what type of bandit lair it is as well; the looter one is easy, the sea raider one is possible, others have said the mountain bandit one is not very hard either, but the forest and tundra bandit ones seem near impossible, at least with the setup I've described a few times by now. It's also important to know what difficulty settings you are playing at - you can't really say others just need more skill unless you can complete it at a high character level, with full damage, best AI, and the fastest game speed.
But what a lot of these settings do is not really decrease the difficulty but rather decrease the accuracy of the simulation, and I don't think that's the same thing.miollnir 说:
Also, I can think of at least one excellent racing sim that had no difficulty settings whatsoever - Grand Prix Legends. Man, that game gave me ****ing nightmares. And I think that's a good thing, makes it memorable, which few games are. And I still occasionally dig it out and fail miserably to beat Jimmy Clark in Monaco.
