Desert Faction

[Taraleon]

I dont recall any other occasion than crusades where "traditional knights" (from europe) would fight in a desert. Wait, what was my point? Already forgot it, dang... nowlemmesee... umm...

Anyhow, its fantasy if a huge continent (asia, africa) doesnt have desert in the middle of it. We really should measure calradia's distances in kilometers.

Anyways, we do have deserts in some mods, like Hegemony 268 B.C.

 

[Mage246]

So the traditional knights encased in plate went into the desert? I really doubt that. Now, I could see lighter armors like chain or scale that's wrapped with light fabric to repel sunlight, but even lighter stuff like leathers would have suited desert fighting.

You're the guy that brought up plate. You also mentioned fantasy. For instance, the crusades in which knights fought in desert biome. Pure fantasy, that.

... huh? He's making a valid point. If it's a "desert" faction, it stands to reason they'd live in a DESERT. If they live in a desert, and the player can go there, then naturally you'd have the bizarre situation in which soldiers in full plate armor would be fighting the in the desert.

So, since he was making a valid point, what was *your* point?

 

[Ash_Crow]

Anyhow, its fantasy if a huge continent (asia, africa) doesnt have desert in the middle of it. We really should measure calradia's distances in kilometers.

From Praven (which is near the center of the map), you can reach the borders of the maps in about one day of riding. This is the size of a french department (by definition)  so you can assume something around 100*150 km. Yes, Calradia is very small.

then naturally you'd have the bizarre situation in which soldiers in full plate armor would be fighting the in the desert.

So, since he was making a valid point, what was *your* point?

There are no soldiers wearing full-plate in the game. Plate armor is only available in shops for the player.

 

[Triosta]

There are no soldiers wearing full-plate in the game. Plate armor is only available in shops for the player.

Sword sisters use plate armor and Swadian Knights and Sergeants use Coat of Plates.

 

[Mage246]

Not only has it already been pointed out that there are troops who wear plate armor, most of the heavy armors in the game that aren't "plate" armor would face the same problem. Basically, if your troops are wearing heavy armor, they'd be screwed in the desert.

 

[screwtape]

Not only has it already been pointed out that there are troops who wear plate armor, most of the heavy armors in the game that aren't "plate" armor would face the same problem. Basically, if your troops are wearing heavy armor, they'd be screwed in the desert.

So what?
Just because it's a stupid idea (wearing heavy metal armour under a burning desert sun) doesn't mean that:
a) it's never been done in real life, because it has (e.g. the Crusades)
or b) that it shouldn't ever happen in game.

I'm no coder, but couldn't you just treble the encumbrance penalty for armour in desert landscape? Or up it by whatever factor you need to for it to become a serious penalty?

That said, I'm more than happy with the game and factions as they are, so though a desert would undoubtedly be a fun edition, I'm not sure I'd regard it as any kind of priority, and indeed, as has already been suggested, Calradia is simply too small as is to incorporate sub-Arctic style wastes through to Arabian style deserts....

 

[Shik]

I wouldn't be surprised if a desert area popped up.

After all, desert terrain is already in game. Just check module.ini -> Desert tree types = 0

But most likely we won't see deserts anywhere outside of mods.

 

[RaVeN]

Desert faction sounds nice, I'd slaugher those sand-kissing newcomers(I meant, invaders) to hell!

 

[Shik]

It seems we do have a lot of middle-eastern sort of items/gear already in the game.

The hidden Shahi and Rabati helmets.
The steppe bandit hats.
The turbans.


So, it's possible we might see a middle eastern sort of faction, but seeing as the game is this close to completion, I doubt it.

 

[Mage246]

Middle Eastern doesn't necessarily mean desert. People have this stereotype of the Middle East that way, but along the Mediterranean coast it isn't desert at all. It's only as you go away from the coast that it turns into desert. Since the Crusades targeted the area on the Mediterranean coast, they didn't have to deal with desert very much, which is why Crusader tactics can't be used as an excuse for a "desert" faction You *can't* fight in heavy armor in the desert. It'd be like trying to fight in heavy armor in the ocean, since for all intents and purposes a desert is an ocean of sand to a heavily encumbered person.

 

[Halden The Borch shooter]

Think about the desert. Hot. Dry. Really hot. Really dry. No, hotter and drier. Now put on some metal armor in that dry and scorching place and try to walk a mile.

Basically fighting in the desert in plate armor is so fantasy it's ridiculous.

Not to mention sand will get in the joints and slow your movement. Calradia just doesn't scream arid, as the peasants are all bundled up and there's snow nearby. You'd have to travel further south to hit deserts, like, really south. M&B 8 kind of south as Calradia conquers enough of the world to get into the desert region.

So what did the crusaders do, fight naked?

Not all of them had plate armor, for sure, but some did. And maille isn't any more comfortable either. Soldiers fighting in the desert would just man up, fight, and half of them die of heat exhaustion.

Now there's an idea... make your men slowly lose health, and start to die in the heat... Maybe a faster version of starving.

 

[Shik]

Crusaders? Wasn't that before plate armor was even invented?

Besides, did you read this post?:

Middle Eastern doesn't necessarily mean desert. People have this stereotype of the Middle East that way, but along the Mediterranean coast it isn't desert at all. It's only as you go away from the coast that it turns into desert. Since the Crusades targeted the area on the Mediterranean coast, they didn't have to deal with desert very much, which is why Crusader tactics can't be used as an excuse for a "desert" faction You *can't* fight in heavy armor in the desert. It'd be like trying to fight in heavy armor in the ocean, since for all intents and purposes a desert is an ocean of sand to a heavily encumbered person.

 

[ermine]

I support anything that brings more colour and distraction to the game, be it desert or valleys hidden far up in the mountains where Dwarfs are living and gettign prepared to throw mankind back into the ocean... - and thus I am looking forward to many mods that will come up as soon Verion 1.0 will be released.

However, I don't see the points regarding the fighting in the desert. Desert Warfare in every time was/ is/ will be a matter of logistics....If you have enough water, food etc to feed your men, why shouldn't it be impossible to engage during a couple of hours during 1 Day with the enemy, everyone doing it more sustained might be called HERO

Making a desert and a desert faction further would really imply to put in oases etc, and those need to be many days of travelling distance from eachother. And by this probably we meet some constraints. Further deterrs me the idea of reading threads talking about that the Beduins should be stronger than, except that the Rhodoks here.....etc etc  .

Ciaoaoao

 

[Lord_Adam]

Someone could always mod a dessert in if it's not added by the game developers. This is certainly not out of reach once we receive a module system.

 

[Shik]

Someone could always mod a dessert in if it's not added by the game developers. This is certainly not out of reach once we receive a module system.

You're behind the times man, we received a module system 5 days ago.

 

[Saber Cherry]

It is important for people to remember that 'desert' does not mean 'hot'.  It means very low rainfall and subsequent lack of vegetation.  It is no more difficult for someone wearing full plate with heavy padding underneath, for example, to fight in an area with very low rainfall as opposed to normal rainfall.

A lack of rain can be caused by many factors, one of which is a 'rain shadow' on the lee side of a mountain range, which can exist at any latitude.  This is a result of adiabatic cooling of air flowing over the mountains, which forces condensation and 'squeezes' all of the moisture out of the air, giving heavy rain (or snow) on the mountains and nothing on the other side.  There are deserts in cool regions of, for example, North America.

Even though there can be numerous types of deserts, such as the red sandstone kind (Arches National Park) and salt flat kind, I'm personally in favor of a traditional dune desert with oases.

 

[Triosta]

The dune-oasis-camels-sandstorm-whitelinencloaksandturbans type of desert. It'd be bad if it was added without your troops or character that was currently wearing really heavy armor to say 'We'd better not enter this region until we're wearing lighter garments...'(And nobody wants that.) and ban those armors from being worn in that region, or put on heavy penalties when it's being worn in battle, like said previously, gradually damages you from heat exhaustion and a much slower movement simulating being in a river.

I don't think Armagan would want to deal with that. That's why I said 'No.' in my first post. Cause it'd be too much trouble.

 

[pentagathus]

The romans did a lot of fighting with the parthians around palmyra, which if I am right was sourounded by deserts. And the roman legionaries would still wear thier heavy packs, shields, mail and helmets. And they could still fight. So realy it should be fine for having deserts. In fact it's funny that I found this thread since I'm making a mod which will include a desert fation (I'm not sure what name I should give them though) and a fairly big desert (in the screwed up m&b distance sense.)

 

[Syrdar]

Just wondering will we ever get a faction who are in the desert we have nice green fields the stepps and snow would be cool to have some desert ? maybe a another nation ? anyway just asking.I would love to see some desert area with a few citys.

I don't know if this is the answer you are looking for, but I played "A song of Ice and Fire" module (.903) and I remember fighting in a desert.

 

[Buenor]

What about just making Southwestern US / Mexico Desert.  It doesn't have that much sand, although it's getting over 100 every day now.  In a Month it'll be 120...