Dena a bit too strong?

[Mkhedari]

Huh.  I've never had much luck with archers.  The only ones I usually have are the Camp Defenders and Soldiers' Wives.  I think you need 30 or more of them in your party for them to increase morale every other day, so I typically have a bunch of them.  They suck.  I suppose I'd be better off with Saethyddion, but even in sieges they do little. 

After all, the enemy's rushing the walls, and they have shields.  You usually don't have much time before they're upon you, and the archers usually can't shoot at the enemy once they are, so massed heavy infantry are more useful most of the time.

 

[Hidole555]

How to Kill Dena Raiders

Step 1) Get a Horse
Step 2) Get the best shield, the longest spear, and the best 1h axe or sword you can afford.
Step 3) As a Precaution, make sure your party is twice the size as the Dena party is. For some players this may mean grabbing some raw recruits from nearby villages.
Step 4) SAVE
Step 5) Start the battle with the Denas. If Ambushed!, immediately ragequit and load save.
Step 6) Position your troops on the high ground to give them the advantage of height.
Step 7) Ride out as a 1-man skirmishing party. Circle around the Denas so they waste their thrown weapons on you. Then, use your spear to damage as many Dena's as you can. Target the ones that are most to the side to avoid damage to your horse. If your horse is killed, you're kind of screwed. Remember, you're going for the most DAMAGE, not kills. After you land a hit, keep riding and pick the next target based on how easy it'll be to land a hit.

Done correctly, by the time the Dena's reach your troops, they'll be low on HP enough that your troops will have a much easier time dealing with them. Be sure to order your troops to Charge!!! when the enemy meets your battle line. They will be enveloped by your men which will make their death all the more faster and casualties on your side all the more fewer.

 

[Alfred of Gloucester]

Step 5) Start the battle with the Denas. If Ambushed!, immediately ragequit and load save.

Best thing ive read in a while

 

[qmax]

Archers are a bad joke.  Unless you get them to shoot the massed enemy in the back like that, don't even have them in your party.  Most of their shots miss, the vast majority of their hits hit shields, most of those that don't get stopped by armor, and most of those that don't fail to kill.  It's a rare day when archers kill someone.

I disagree.  You need to have the archers close enough to hit targets, you need to move them to the side when shield walls engage so they can keep firing, and it helps to have your shield wall defend at the bottom of a hill or rise so the enemy is more exposed to the archers.  Every archer hit staggers the enemy such that your infantry can get two or three strikes in to their one.  And when the enemy runs away in a weakened state your archers can take down some of them even though your infantry may not be able to chase them down.  If you think archers are useless try attacking a group of Saathyds (sp?) with equal number of medium infantry and see how you do.  And remember to assign some spearman an archer designation to mix them in with the archers and give them more reslience to cavalry charges.

 

[qmax]

As a proper welshie I was hoping the Saethydds would be as good as maybe rhodoks sharpies or something, but I can't seem to use them effectively atm so ive phased them out of my army. Having 30archers 60inf, I found archers hardly even made an impact. In fron of my men or behind, they rarely picked off low tier enemies, nevermind mids. Putting them to flank seemed like the best option but it seems that a small number of inf or cav just peel off and engage them so they stop shooting and die in melee.

I'm new to brytenwalda and Im probably doing it wrong but For me it's  much simpler to pile in more INF or  CAV to field battles leaving archers in garrison.

I never usually have more than about 20 archers plus hero archers.  Have you infantry forward and a bit to the side so they are encountered first.  Then as shield walls engage, have them retreat gradually so your archers come up to the side.  The combination of your shield wall beating on them from the front and your archers hitting them from the side is historical and effective.  And assign archer designation to a few Militae or other spear type and your archer formation won't be so wimpy.....  And if a few break off to attack the archers, you should defend the archers from horseback.  Depending on terrain, command your archers not to fire until the enemy is closer, so as to conserve arrows.

 

[Apstinentas]

Archers are a bad joke.  Unless you get them to shoot the massed enemy in the back like that, don't even have them in your party.  Most of their shots miss, the vast majority of their hits hit shields, most of those that don't get stopped by armor, and most of those that don't fail to kill.  It's a rare day when archers kill someone.

I disagree.  You need to have the archers close enough to hit targets, you need to move them to the side when shield walls engage so they can keep firing, and it helps to have your shield wall defend at the bottom of a hill or rise so the enemy is more exposed to the archers.  Every archer hit staggers the enemy such that your infantry can get two or three strikes in to their one.  And when the enemy runs away in a weakened state your archers can take down some of them even though your infantry may not be able to chase them down.  If you think archers are useless try attacking a group of Saathyds (sp?) with equal number of medium infantry and see how you do.  And remember to assign some spearman an archer designation to mix them in with the archers and give them more reslience to cavalry charges.

And remember to assign some spearman an archer designation to mix them in with the archers and give them more reslience to cavalry charges.

Mother of god...That is genius.

 

[JuJu70]

Well I will chime in - I think for mid-600s Dena pirates are pure fantasy. There were probably more Pict raiders than any Scandinavians. And the weapon quality definitely wasn't any better than other Germans not until the Franks weapons became a norm (which 800s). Also armor is a big question-mark; considering that raiders tried to avoid pitch battles I would say their armor was pretty light for the vast majority of troops. Maybe some rich and noble people had the mail but common soldiers - I doubt.

 

[Raagun]

Still a hilarious troops. I was expecting sea riders in first encounter. And saw how 20 of them demolished my infantry line of ~60 men wit 0 casualties.
I like them. This game needs some extra challenge to farm

 

[Kinsume]

Well I will chime in - I think for mid-600s Dena pirates are pure fantasy. There were probably more Pict raiders than any Scandinavians. And the weapon quality definitely wasn't any better than other Germans not until the Franks weapons became a norm (which 800s). Also armor is a big question-mark; considering that raiders tried to avoid pitch battles I would say their armor was pretty light for the vast majority of troops. Maybe some rich and noble people had the mail but common soldiers - I doubt.

The lowest tier raiders should definitely be dropped down some in terms of weapons/armor. While I don't doubt they were fearsome warriors, it doesn't change the fact that 20 men can't charge into 80 on the open field and come out with no casualties. Maybe if they were all unarmed, but that isn't the case here.

 

[Phatman19]

lol you die vs 20 franks with 80 troops?

 

[Kinsume]

lol you die vs 20 franks with 80 troops?

Lol you obviously don't play on max difficulty.

 

[Phatman19]

you're right, I'm actually at 108% difficulty, so it's a little above. In reality I kill most of them myself with a 2hander.

 

[Kinsume]

My guy went into that fight with about 10% hp so he didn't participate. It was the 20 of them vs 80 of my men, mostly medium and heavy units and they just walked over my men.

 

[Lainncli]

Lol you obviously don't play on max difficulty.

lol you die vs 20 franks with 80 troops?

you're right, I'm actually at 108% difficulty, so it's a little above. In reality I kill most of them myself with a 2hander.

My guy went into that fight with about 10% hp so he didn't participate. It was the 20 of them vs 80 of my men, mostly medium and heavy units and they just walked over my men.

Ladies, put the handbags away!

Seriously, I do agree that the Danes are a bit too hard. What would actually sort out the problem is if there was a troop tree for the raiders. I know Brytenwalda is finished development and all, but that doesn't mean someone else can't add some minimods. For example, every ship has a Dena Jarl and a Ship's Captain then a mix of Dena Housecarls, Dena Warriors and Dena Looters. Housecarls (Húskarlar) could be the high-end heavy infantry you currently fight, Warriors (Krigera) would probably be a mix of mail and high-end leather armour, mercenaries who aspire to be rich and feared as fierce warriors, and Looters (Røvera) wear leather armour or cheap mail, young men who have come to seek their fortunes abroad. I'm not a modder, but if someone wants to take this up I'd be happy to help.

 

[Lainncli]

隐藏: New Troops

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  30 20 12 14 32
260 260 260 0 0 260 260
0 262144 0 37753 603392 0
  34360271689 6400095648985275042 2050385 0 67646784199 5124305977976375964 2013929 0

trp_dena_húskarl Dena_Húskarl Dena_Húskarlar 0 108003328 0 0 2 1838 0
  1348 0 1348 0 1350 0 1348 0 203 0 217 0 224 0 223 0 515 0 516 0 517 0 513 0 512 0 506 0 785 0 793 0 784 0 789 0 783 0 782 0 779 0 854 0 839 0 931 0 949 0 959 0 962 0 1279 0 1280 0 1356 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0
  30 20 12 14 29
220 220 220 0 0 220 220
0 262144 0 37735 537856 0
  25653440836 4205603702910970637 2005268 0 68015395072 3560999418607232029 1984154 0

trp_dena_røvera Dena_Røver Dena_Røvera 0 103809024 0 0 2 1837 0
  1338 0 1338 0 1338 0 1338 0 1338 0 218 0 219 0 298 0 299 0 301 0 303 0 304 0 638 0 637 0 636 0 1404 0 716 0 716 0 959 0 837 0 961 0 927 0 931 0 14 0 932 0 844 0 846 0 847 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0
  22 14 8 10 23
170 170 170 0 0 170 170
0 65536 0 12899 266752 0
  25653440836 4205603702910970637 2005268 0 68015395072 3560999418607232029 1984154 0

trp_dean_kriger Dena_Kriger Dena_Krigera 0 103809024 0 0 2 1835 0
  1348 0 1348 0 1350 0 1348 0 203 0 217 0 517 0 512 0 506 0 785 0 784 0 783 0 782 0 779 0 839 0 931 0 949 0 959 0 962 0 1279 0 1280 0 1356 0 634 0 252 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0
  30 20 12 14 27
200 200 200 0 0 200 210
0 196608 0 29543 472064 0
  25653440836 4205603702910970637 2005268 0 68015395072 3560999418607232029 1984154 0

trp_dena_captain Dena_Kaptajn Dena_Kaptajner 0 36700160 0 0 2 0 0
  1348 0 227 0 226 0 517 0 527 0 513 0 511 0 798 0 799 0 765 0 800 0 801 0 872 0 857 0 839 0 949 0 1282 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0
  30 20 12 14 32
260 260 260 0 0 260 260
0 296960 0 37737 603392 0
  32849797524 1322771547427813083 1947331 0 59777229642 6628381364179173247 2026351 0

Very quickly made 4 new troops, if anyone wants to code these in for me that'd be great.