MP Delay on release of attacks

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we should constantly be bumping this with other voices as well because I know so many are subtly aware and dislike this it's been bothering me as well and while I was fit to give up and let it go and relearn a new game in a way it's restrictive because I really think this system does feel as wonky to most of us as well when it seems very fixable, mechanics should be prioritized over animations. Honestly if taleworlds presented a multiplayer build that was a version that worked super cleanly but only mechanically even if they left the wonky animations and just ignored them like have the swings and stabs function correctly just to see if people want it, It wouldn't even divide us because no one likes it the way it is. Anybody would say this delay is annoying, one is clearly better than the other because they would feel it as they play.
 
UGH I H A T E the delay, it is really truly awful, it is like they built LAG into the game engine... Warband was so crisp and now I feel like I automatically have lag, the delay throws my timing all off.
 
I am by no means an expert at medieval combat. But when I see these videos about swing releases of warband and bannerlord I kind of compare this to kickboxing. People always think that in order to strike powerfully, they need to wind-up or charge their attack. Let's sum up what the effects of winding up are:
1: It makes your attack much more predictable because the opponent has time to see where the attack is coming from.
2: It actually slows down the speed of an attack because you are not directly making contact with the opponent but first retracting your weapon.
3: Once again, I am not an expert, but I am quite sure that getting speed and strength from your core rotation like hips and such is a much better way to back up your attack than actually retracting the weapon and doing alll kind of unneccesary nonsense.

TALEWORLDS. What is actually the reason for this delay?
 
This still really annoys me, but we all probably got used to it and changing it would mess up the whole fighting routine.
We shouldn't accept poor game-design because we're used to it. Come on now.
Attack delay is a non-negotiably terrible idea that should never have seen the light of day.
 
It also makes chambering way harder then it should be

This.

Also noticed in the duel server that holding your attack is suicide, 9/10 times they will swing faster than you can let go. Whether this is because of delay or some stance bull****tery I don't know but it is sad my main weapon in Warband fights isn't usable anymore :sad:
 
This.

Also noticed in the duel server that holding your attack is suicide, 9/10 times they will swing faster than you can let go. Whether this is because of delay or some stance bull****tery I don't know but it is sad my main weapon in Warband fights isn't usable anymore :sad:

If you held the attack X seconds it was considered a "heavy attack", which deals more damage but is slower (which affects the small windup attacks have)
 
If you held the attack X seconds it was considered a "heavy attack", which deals more damage but is slower (which affects the small windup attacks have)

which doesn't make sense as a concept.

if you hold an attack in Warband, do you not already make it slower by holding it? by adding an extra arbitrary release delay, you essentially give hold attacks a double delay. it's unnecessary and punishes the use of a move which is otherwise useful for regaining control of a fight, particularly as holding an attack in one direction makes your next block to other directions even slower. so, if you hold and the opponent reads it and swings in, the game limits your ability to cancel that hold and defend yourself. this means that right now holds are:
1) slow by nature of holding left click
2) even slower thanks to an extra release delay
3) easy to spam into because of these delays
4) difficult to cancel and defend yourself because of the extra block delay they add

basically a useless mechanic right now that you are only punished for. holding attacks in Warband for the right amount of time gave a damage bonus, and i think that's a decent incentive to include them in any player's arsenal - although the practical application of tempo-disruption is enough by itself.

TLDR holds are neutered and trash in bannerlord
 
I am very happy this thread exists, I hope it doesn't die so that TW is aware this problem causes frustration every day.

I also have a following observation in regards of combat sluggishness in relation to movement speed:
Due to delays and windups there seems to be a lower ratio of speed and volume of character actions to movement speed compared to Warband. I think this is what causes the impression that it's so hard to predict an outcome of an action and feeling "stuck" in a swing or a block. Between releasing a mouse button and a swing finishing there is enough time that due to relative high movement speed situation can change enough to make reasons for performing said swing long irrelevant. In Warband this ratio is great and allows players to freely adjust their actions to relative positions and actions of other players. However, that is achieved at a price of unrealistic swinging animations and instant blocks that made weapons feel like they have no weight and clearly Bannerlord doesn't want to go that way.
So in theory, another way to make combat less frustrating would be to slow down movement speed (at least in combat) to match action to movement ratio of Warband (although that could make the game feel like a chess match).

All in all I kinda feel bad for TW guys because for now the way the combat is makes it a perfect proof that sometimes a game design produced with all the honest effort, good reasons and intentions ends up being of little value due to simply turning out to be not fun to play. I hope they manage to work this out because Bannerlord is clearly a work of passion and I hope it succeeds.
 
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I think noudelle (in an older thread) gave the best explanation for this:

"Taleworlds' philosophy seems to be that by throwing hundreds of tiny, imperceptible variables into the equation, that somehow, depth will magically materialize itself into the game. Instead of working with a few, concrete mechanics that can be easily tweaked and corrected, they have created an untameable abomination that can never be corrected with its current design.
This design philosophy is fundametally flawed, because there is no focus to it. They are simply replicating what would happen in real life if a certain action were to occur, but it's in a video game instead of real life.
Taleworlds is trying to replicate a physics system, without making a true physics system. which is why it will never feel right to play. They could have committed to this idea fully and gone for an actual, fully-physically simulated combat system like Gang-beasts, Exanima or other similar games, but then it wouldn't truly be Mount & Blade would it?"
 
I disagree.

I stopped playing both Chivalry and, to a lesser extent, Mordhau due to the ridiculous, super-human, lightning fast spikes in angular acceleration of the player body, footwork, and weapon that can be achieved with really un-natural movements (such has looking down at the ground, and then swinging an overhead accel with full damage). Over a network, these spikes make combat un-fun since they aren't perceptible due the lack of the full sensory feedback in a real fight. We only have a keyboard and mouse to work with.

This baked in delay may not achieve 100% realism, but it prevents the overall feeling and look of a fight from being so arcade-y. The devs put a lot of thought and intention into this and I see exactly why. I don't want a Chivalry clone. Devs, please don't fall for the cries to return to arcade combat.

Maybe, all that is needed is to tweak the sensitivity of the block/swing direction so that it doesn't require such an exaggerated movement to block a certain direction.
 
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I disagree.

I stopped playing both Chivalry and, to a lesser extent, Mordhau due to the ridiculous, super-human, lightning fast spikes in angular acceleration of the player body, footwork, and weapon that can be achieved with really un-natural movements (such has looking down at the ground, and then swinging an overhead accel with full damage). Over a network, these spikes make combat un-fun since they aren't perceptible due the lack of the full sensory feedback in a real fight. We only have a keyboard and mouse to work with.

This baked in delay may not achieve 100% realism, but it prevents the overall feeling and look of a fight from being so arcade-y. The devs put a lot of thought and intention into this and I see exactly why. I don't want a Chivalry clone. Devs, please don't fall for the cries to return to arcade combat.

Maybe, all that is needed is to tweak the sensitivity of the block/swing direction so that it doesn't require such an exaggerated movement to block a certain direction.

Except Warband never had the problems that Chivalry and Mordhau had. Hitting someone with the start or end of your swing made you whiff off, and blocking could match the pace of feinting. All this attack delay does is make combat sluggish and it especially screws over holds and stabs. The only attacks you should even bother using are non held left and right swings to mitigate attack delay and because the arcs are so wide its impossible to miss. As for visual looks, Bannerlord is far more unreadable due to the animation blending system mixing with feints and late swing cancels that can phase through enemies.

A big part of Bannerlord's problem is it inverts which aspects of combat should be fast or slow. Readying attacks, releasing attacks, and blocking should be quick and snappy to allow for skillful reactive gameplay. Readability was never an issue Warband had with these. Bannerlord makes these three aspects really sluggish while making swing speeds for weapons overall a little faster and making feinting unreadable, making it harder to react in combat. To top it off, movement speed is overall faster and more weightless in Bannerlord (with the exception of backpedaling). This combined with the sluggish dueling controls encourages you to spin away from an enemy if you fail to hit to deny them a counter attack, rinse and repeat. If they do manage to hit you in the back, it doesn't matter because you don't get slowed down like you would in Warband.
 
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