Definitive post about development of Bannerlord

[Mad Vader]

I am fairly certain that "they" are not lying about their intentions. People that actively want to deceive you are few and far between. Simply failing in adequately grasping the scale of the project and their work speed is much, much, much more likely. And they usually feel bad enough about their failures themselves.

Think of it in the sense of the phrase "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity."
Though "stupidity" is also a bit too harsh in this case.

A good assessment. The correct word is probably "amateurism".

 

[Keldar]

I am fairly certain that "they" are not lying about their intentions. People that actively want to deceive you are few and far between. Simply failing in adequately grasping the scale of the project and their work speed is much, much, much more likely. And they usually feel bad enough about their failures themselves.

Think of it in the sense of the phrase "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity."
Though "stupidity" is also a bit too harsh in this case.

First of all there are so many that try to deceive others. Second, I doubt they feel bad or they would post responses to people's concerns saying how sorry they were for disappointing people and at the very they are ignoring the concerns of their players by not posting. I think it is mostly laziness, incompetence, indifference. I do though think they also at the very least have knowingly mislead people but you can't PROVE they have not lied.

 

[Ser Jon]

Well, even if their intention was not to mislead, it can be entirely possible that their efforts had still led to an incredible amount of misleading information. Largely, of course, reinforced by a rather conservative approach to communication with the consumers.

 

[Keldar]

Well, even if their intention was not to mislead, it can be entirely possible that their efforts had still led to an incredible amount of misleading information. Largely, of course, reinforced by a rather conservative approach to communication with the consumers.

Well said, completely agree and its still on them for their pathetic lack of communication. I dare anyone on the forums to excuse that.

 

[[Rei]]

I dare anyone on the forums to excuse that.

You, after someone accepts your dare.

 

[JohannTheFirst]

First of all there are so many that try to deceive others. Second, I doubt they feel bad or they would post responses to people's concerns saying how sorry they were for disappointing people and at the very they are ignoring the concerns of their players by not posting. I think it is mostly laziness, incompetence, indifference. I do though think they also at the very least have knowingly mislead people but you can't PROVE they have not lied.

Everything is relative, and your mileage may vary depending on your environment. In western societies of plenty, especially in well-off industries like entertainment, I highly doubt that many would need to actively deceive others. What I don't doubt, is that many in the industry have issues evaluating their own skillset or are capable of gaging the complexity of long term projects.

You can't prove that they lied either. You would usually make an intention a necessary prerequisite to classify something as a lie.

Well said, completely agree and its still on them for their pathetic lack of communication. I dare anyone on the forums to excuse that.

I won't excuse it, I'll challenge the notion in the first place.

Now I won't act as if I have any idea about their devblogs or anything else going on before release. I watched maybe one video where I saw a ton of issues that I found in Warband, which already tempered my expectations. But post release?

I was annoyed about the lack of communication. Shortly thereafter they reorganized the forums, opened the suggestion list (at first it was just by activity, now there's a curated one), a bit later they made their "Plans for the game"-threads, all the while responding to players on various issues. Since then I've seen quite a few things popping up in the update logs that I specifically wanted in the game.

Now, you can say it's just 3-5 people, but even with 100 full-time employees that's between 3-5% of a company, essentially doing an optional job, interacting with the playerbase. The standard for manufacturing industries themselves isn't a massive amount of customer interaction, especially not on a consistent basis. That's more or less what this is.

So yeah, other than giving me a roadmap of what they would consider feature-complete, which they themselves probably don't even know at this point, I don't actually care about what many here perceive to be such a "lack of communication" at all. I don't even think that exists. I'd have the same exact problems if they made a massive list and wrote "No idea if we'll add that, at this point". And there have been plenty of times where they have said as much. They're careful as to NOT mislead people.

 

[kreamy]

There is no doubt that the feeling of "fraud" heightens as time passes and those long-awaited original mechanics that Bannerlord should have do not arrive.

That is undoubted, but from that point to turning this forum into the absurd constant attack on everything that TW does is a lot of distance, don't you think?

I don't want to seem like a fanboy without a brain, I'm just as frustrated as many of you, but I was already embarrassed to enter the forum to always read the same ****.

I mean - I can see what you're saying. However, I don't think that the forum 'responses' or feelings are at all responsible for TW's actions (or lack of communication for example).

Like - should people just not voice their displeasure? I don't see what real alternative there are for people, and for their participation in this forum - but please understand that this community has obviously tried, we've all given feedback, we've posted about the bugs, yet there doesn't seem to be light at the end of the tunnel at all.

So, whether people attack or don't attack, is there any point to stop the former? (Besides the fact that TW doesn't seem to care of course).

If people feel upset, the forum is the right outlet.


Edit: You sparked my brain with this reply. I posted a follow up to your post on what I think the reason for the divide in the forum is. (link)


Cheers

2nd Edit:

I didn't ask for it either (EA) but I understand the people who asked for it.

EA does not justify everything, but it explain other many things, what is not justifiable (for me) is to limit yourself to bombarding the forum with everything you do not like about the game without taking into account the many good things that Bannerlord already has, I do not know , I think the healthiest thing to do is wait patiently and give a video game the importance it deserves, everything else seems to me to be whimsical comments from rude people who have never tried to make a game themselves.

I really think you are oversimplifying things.

Let's not forget what was offered, and what TW delivered, and what they say they will deliver now.

People bought the game over certain premises, and on the coat tails of dev blogs that hyped features.

Making games is hard, sure - but this type of development execution is very nutty given the whole cycle of events (10 year dev, experience making 2 prior games, redeveloping the game, broken promises etc. etc. etc.)

So, its not just animosity, its justified behaviour to many extents (TW needs to be 'accountable' to someone, and thats the purchaser - we purchased the game because of what they promised, but thats clearly not the case given the progression of EA).

^ I think it would be very hard to prove otherwise ^

 

[Ser Jon]

I mean - I can see what you're saying. However, I don't think that the forum 'responses' or feelings are at all responsible for TW's actions (or lack of communication for example).

Agreed. And it is because it's simply not why they aren't responding/communicating. What's the excuse for when there wasn't negativity on the forum? The idea that anyone could think to justify or deny that there is no good communication from the developers is insane.

"They communicate! But if they didn't, it's actually your fault for telling them what they're doing wrong".

?

 

[rion4581]

Oh no, the return of this argument.

Well it's a valid arguement. If people hate so much how come they're playing it so much

 

[Mad Vader]

Well it's a valid arguement. If people hate so much how come they're playing it so much

We have to explain this every few days, there should be a FAQ for parachuting white-knighting recruits like you. Besides, it's a nasty thing to say, leave people alone - would you like to be attacked for liking the game and told you are wrong or stupid?

 

[Ser Jon]

Well it's a valid arguement. If people hate so much how come they're playing it so much

No, it isn't a valid argument, it's actually an incredibly bad argument to make, especially so when the game discussed is an early access title. So yes, it's honestly completely absurd to try and pass this argument off.

 

[vito397]

Well it's a valid arguement. If people hate so much how come they're playing it so much

I'll trust a person who played a 1000 hours when they say the game is bad, because by then they know the game and it's contents inside and out.

I will not trust a person who played 15 hours when they say the game is good, because they have not even scrapped off the delicious icing to find the cake empty of content.

 

[WhyAmIHere]

The grindy-ness of M&B greatly inflates play times.

 

[Life_Erikson]

We have to explain this every few days, there should be a FAQ for parachuting white-knighting recruits like you. Besides, it's a nasty thing to say, leave people alone - would you like to be attacked for liking the game and told you are wrong or stupid?

Thats actually a good idea. Would be nice to do such an FAQ and have it pinned.