SP - General Defection, or lack of it. 1.59 Beta

[Zorion_no]

I'm not sure if this is a suggestion, or if I need more feedback? or "its working as intended".

So on my play now I've conquered the final city of a faction.
They have 0 lands, they still have all the Clans from the start + 4 hired merecenaries companies, their total power atm is about 500 vs my factions 12000...
Yet to get peace it says we have to pay them 1000 denar a day?

So now its been about 100-200 ingame days and there is no end to the pestlords, who try to raid villages, get caugth and put into prison, 3 days later they escape rince repeat with 0 defection you can see why this is now an issue.

Tbh this tanks the fun, Warband if a lord didnt have any lands for a period of time, they would defect.

Totally in my play now there have been about 3 defections.(2 Vlandia, one from other factions to the one I'm in(the vlandians joined Western Empire).

Ideally this would be resolved by if a lord dont hold land for x days they should defect, the king should be exiled like in Warband, and make a comeback if one of their original cities rebel.

Note I havent played Diplomat this time, so I havent offered them gold to jump over to my faction(but I dont feel its the vassals job either).

 

[Apocal]

Working as intended:

Defection calculations last changed at 1.5.6 it is same since that day. Reason why defections are reduced in 1.5.8 is they do not left without fief (because better campaign AI) and they do not left without money easily now. Also they have better money management, for example they do not hire mercenaries if they have financial problems. If you make 30 year tests you can see several defections in some runs.

Because they do not suffer from money easily now I think we are ready to close one of AI cheats "upgrading troops to cavalry without using horse". However decision is not at me about this. But I will make some tests for this to see if anything is effected badly if we remove that cheat.

By the way if anyone finds time it is good to have more 20 year tests from 1.5.8 especially with number of noble clans data and fief score data at 20th year is better. So we can see how many percentage of runs have defections with snowball score.

 

[Zorion_no]

Working as intended:

Whats intresting though is that after the last hotfix/patch they made - defections felt more right, and I started to see more of it.
Not to mention Northern Empire who's at that point had had 5-6 merc companies attached to them, see it drop down to 1-2 at most.

After the patch there have been more defections, so I dunno if it was sort of bugged or if working as intended my patience for it, was lower than needed.

I just dont think/feel its right that a kingdome with 0 land keep all or most of its original clans + 4-6 for several years.. and no defections.

I know its a balance act, so thats fine - read when EA is over and we go to retail, I'll start useing mods to tweak stuff like this better to my likeing.

I was just curious if it was as intended or if I was unlucky/bugged etc.

 

[mexxico]

Whats intresting though is that after the last hotfix/patch they made - defections felt more right, and I started to see more of it.
Not to mention Northern Empire who's at that point had had 5-6 merc companies attached to them, see it drop down to 1-2 at most.

After the patch there have been more defections, so I dunno if it was sort of bugged or if working as intended my patience for it, was lower than needed.

I just dont think/feel its right that a kingdome with 0 land keep all or most of its original clans + 4-6 for several years.. and no defections.

I know its a balance act, so thats fine - read when EA is over and we go to retail, I'll start useing mods to tweak stuff like this better to my likeing.

I was just curious if it was as intended or if I was unlucky/bugged etc.

We will show financial situation of clans to player at encylopedia in next patches. Most important thing triggers defections are financial situation. You will see very poor (below 15K gold) / poor (15K-45K gold) / normal (45K-135K gold) / rich (135K-405K gold) / very rich (405K+ gold) keywords at encylopedia about a clan. So if they do not have lands they will be very poor after several years. After that defections will speed up.

If kingdom has good amount of accumulated kingdom budget (something like 3-4M gold) it can take 3-4 years for their clans to go very poor situation by the way. Because 1-2K gold from this budget is distributed to poor each poor clan each day. Still it will be easier to follow what is happening with this financial situation information. Maybe later we can also show kingdom budgets somewhere.

 

[The Horrorlord]

We will show financial situation of clans to player at encylopedia in next patches. Most important thing triggers defections are financial situation. You will see very poor (below 15K gold) / poor (15K-45K gold) / normal (45K-135K gold) / rich (135K-405K gold) / very rich (405K+ gold) keywords at encylopedia about a clan. So if they do not have lands they will be very poor after several years. After that defections will speed up.

If kingdom has good amount of accumulated kingdom budget (something like 3-4M gold) it can take 3-4 years for their clans to go very poor situation by the way. Because 1-2K gold from this budget is distributed to poor each poor clan each day. Still it will be easier to follow what is happening with this financial situation information. Maybe later we can also show kingdom budgets somewhere.

@mexxico is it currently possible for clans to come to you without paying them millions to join? If so i've yet to see it happen. Just confused by what i've read above.

 

[Zorion_no]

@mexxico is it currently possible for clans to come to you without paying them millions to join? If so i've yet to see it happen. Just confused by what i've read above.

Depends on the clan from my experience.
Their tier, amount of family members(to field armies, governors etc).
I cant say if their current amount of money have an impact.

I typically havent passed 1 million for un-landed clans.
From 250k to 760k in 1.59.
I tend to be "friends with them before I try to make them join our kingdome".
(Read bribe them and their familymembers with 10-25k to several of them and you'll have like 25 relations with the lord of the clan).
That way the very first speech check is also much easier as it will tell you "my friend ..." something.

Getting lords from hostile factions with lands though I havent event bothered trying, as its as you say typically in the millions(no wonder though, since they bring in their lands etc + the "power that gives").

Overall I think the price for getting the lords to defect is actually quite good(my opinion).

But I felt the defection rate was abit low.
But then again now it did improve abit after that patch was inbetween this post.
Thats prolly just a false-positive and rather linked to me playing the game for more years ingame and thus as Mexxico pointed out its cause they are now getting to be actually poor.

I cant wait to see that new feature, as it will "help" the players in not getting overly frustrated with never seeing defections(or rare).

On another note I still think you need to have King/Queen going into exile if they dont hold land and dont have any clans for a certain amount of time like 100-200 days? otherwize you'll end up with Pestlords problem from Warband.

Rhaega dont have any mercs nor any clans left(I got them to defect, and some even defected to other kingdomes).

This is a typical frustrating part of the later games - 2100 days passed ingame mind you.

Where the lords dont defect(I think perhaps the drain on their economy needs to be bigger, and not the only factor have a "loyalty-marker" where its at 100 and pr day they will loose -1 and when its 0 -> they will defect(this could trigger from being unlanded or low/no income).

Since they also act like pestlords with 10-30 in the party keep on raiding, not to mention enter the city of the village they just raided(even if they are hostile) means they fill up their coffins perhaps faster than they loose it?.

I'd love to see hostiles not being able to enter towns - like the player cant, this breaks immersion alot.

 

[Zorion_no]

We will show financial situation of clans to player at encylopedia in next patches. Most important thing triggers defections are financial situation. You will see very poor (below 15K gold) / poor (15K-45K gold) / normal (45K-135K gold) / rich (135K-405K gold) / very rich (405K+ gold) keywords at encylopedia about a clan. So if they do not have lands they will be very poor after several years. After that defections will speed up.

If kingdom has good amount of accumulated kingdom budget (something like 3-4M gold) it can take 3-4 years for their clans to go very poor situation by the way. Because 1-2K gold from this budget is distributed to poor each poor clan each day. Still it will be easier to follow what is happening with this financial situation information. Maybe later we can also show kingdom budgets somewhere.

So do this actually mean that to deplete them from funds when they act as pestlords, is that its better to capture them -> then go to town and ransom them instead of just storeing them in the dungeon(and they break out for free)(or get ransomed out).
Do the ransom actually get paid out of their funds, or is it "magic/cheat" handled.

 

[GrandiousBrain]

We will show financial situation of clans to player at encylopedia in next patches. Most important thing triggers defections are financial situation. You will see very poor (below 15K gold) / poor (15K-45K gold) / normal (45K-135K gold) / rich (135K-405K gold) / very rich (405K+ gold) keywords at encylopedia about a clan. So if they do not have lands they will be very poor after several years. After that defections will speed up.

If kingdom has good amount of accumulated kingdom budget (something like 3-4M gold) it can take 3-4 years for their clans to go very poor situation by the way. Because 1-2K gold from this budget is distributed to poor each poor clan each day. Still it will be easier to follow what is happening with this financial situation information. Maybe later we can also show kingdom budgets somewhere.

I just HOPE that there will be choice for the player aka OPTIONAL bcs unlike some others I personaly prefer to NOT be all knowing god right from begining of the game like im Gods son sent from above to bring justice to Calradia BUT instead i would like to have an option where i GRADUALY unveil/find out/explore/hear rumors/buy information from vassals,clans,taver folk,get some throu quests and MAYBE just MAYBE have SPY mechanic where you spend certain amount of gold to send a SPY or corier to go and gather information for you about certain person or certain location.Then after that is done My encyclopedia should slowly be updated as i play and reveale stuff.

I realy would like to have OPTION where i as a player can chose if i want everything to be given to me in encyclopedia from the get go (information about everyone and everything) or do i want to over time as i play the game and do quests and talk with characters i slowly reveal things and automaticaly my encyclopedia slowly gets updated (do quest get info about some retated to the quets stuff,talk to lords/vassals/family members/companions and get some bits and piecess of the information,then pay spy/corier where for certain amount of gold and pay i get info about certain person or place and if caught there will be small or big hit on reputation/relationship).
Also if starting with no all knowing god selected option then ALL you know is Rulers and their close family member BUT you dont know about new additions like if child has been born player wouldnt know until it uses the methods i mentioned above to unveal stuff bcs that way it prompts and insentifies the player to actualy go and INTERACT WITH OTHER NPCs and its own famly memmbers,vassals,companions bcs they might know informations that you still don have and that way update encyclopedia by asking/interacting with NPCs or paying spy/corrier to learn information for you.

Thats what i want to see in Bannerlord like it was in Warband where even if you get good chunk of info it still made you go and explore,go to tavern,talk to NPCs to learn locations of certain people and make you EXPLORE.
Well same but upgraded versiojn can be done in Bannerlord and you cna even give players more power of choice where in options before they satrt their play can chose if the want Vanila all knowing god or want to play like in Warband where you start from nothing and know almost no on and slowly build up,learn stuff and so on.

I realy do hope that this type of aproach to encyclopedia is atleast talked about among devs/decision makers and maybe even considered if not now then atleast maybe post full release but still would want this additional optional choice to be considered.