Debate or Discuss on The Economy right now - Pros, Cons and Ideas to make Calradia an better place

[Flesson19]

https://mountandblade2bannerlord.wiki.fextralife.com/Town+Projects - you already have the "Irrigation" under Daily Defaults and you can also build the
"Lime Kilns". But I agree this system should be at least revised once they implement the new mechanics (or before release).

The only good thing is that a town with 0 prosperity only costs my trader around 250k-350k to buy where a town like askar with 5k prosperity costs me 2.5 million, but still that number needs to change to 2 at maximum

 

[Apocal]

In the case of the kill bandits quest, if there are really so many bandits in the area then they're already disrupting the villagers on their way to the market, so there's already an indirect hit to prosperity that way, and then you get the double whammy of a -5 daily penalty on top of that

The bandit parties are mostly or wholly pulled from the reserve parties of a nearby badit hideout. Those parties generally don't come out much but once the quest is issued to the player will flood out towards the affected town.

The game basically stocks the pond for that quest, in most cases.

 

[Apocal]

Ok, I see one critical problem in all of this that we should consider. Production of raw resources is completely insensitive to price.
...

Why is that a big problem?

 

[mexxico]

@mexxico I did detect a major problem, the hunt down group of bandits quest from villages if left undone can cause a snowball effect that can cause towns prosperity to go to 0. 3 of the 6 Khuzuit towns are now near or 0 in my playthrough around day 1200. Especially when 2 villages get it at the same time. The quest gives -5 prosperity so when 2 villages from the same town get it that is -10 for quite some time and it snowballs so the lower prosperity gets, the less food they have which lowers prosperity for less surplus food so it just keep getting worse and by the time the town in under 400 it is so hard to build it back up. In my game 3 of the 6 Khuzuit towns are now under 1,000 prosperity so selling to them is almost impossible since they have no money. and also have very little good to sell with low prosperity and they are the best place for chees and butter and to sell grapes and olives.

Yes some quests have huge negative effects. This is one example. I will examine this. Thanks.

 

[HugoTheFrenchMan]

Yes some quests have huge negative effects. This is one example. I will examine this. Thanks.

Thank you too

 

[nereid]

Yes some quests have huge negative effects. This is one example. I will examine this. Thanks.

How high is the rate that a visiting Lord will automagically finish a quest? IMHO the current settings of fluctuating power plays into the availability and prices of resources.

 

[Flesson19]

How high is the rate that a visiting Lord will automagically finish a quest? IMHO the current settings of fluctuating power plays into the availability and prices of resources.

I heard it was 10% per quest but no concrete number, now the quest is tied to a bandit hideout, so if you eliminate the hideout then the quest goes away and another can't come back till a new hideout forms, but it seems to come back to frequently

 

[nereid]

I heard it was 10% per quest but no concrete number, now the quest is tied to a bandit hideout, so if you eliminate the hideout then the quest goes away and another can't come back till a new hideout forms, but it seems to come back to frequently

Maybe this number needs also some tuning. I don't know how many quests get done by the player in the late game or on the other side of the map. If the player does not handle the quests and thus keeps the prosperity up it will definitely go down where the player does not do any quests.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

Maybe this number needs also some tuning. I don't know how many quests get done by the player in the late game or on the other side of the map. If the player does not handle the quests and thus keeps the prosperity up it will definitely go down where the player does not do any quests.

The problem is that you don't really want the lords to be more efficient at solving the issues when you're actually looking for quests to do. Then we'd be complaining about how hard it is to find any quests when we're looking to improve our recruiting pool.

This is really a super easy to problem to solve. Just make it so unsolved issues don't affect prosperity. It was a bad idea in the first place. Balancing it out will only make it a slightly less bad idea.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

If the point of this whole system is to help control runaway prosperity, wouldn't a better approach be to make prosperity increase more like how skill points increase? As in, at low prosperity it increases very fast, but at high prosperity it increases much slower until at a certain point it will barely increase at all.

 

[daishi5]

Why is that a big problem?

Here is a quote from the first page

To me i think the biggest problem is super late game inflation since it does not seem to work close to as intended if what @Flesson19 said was true and you did the maths right and grain at 6k days is supposed to be 29 and fish 33 it really does not seem to be the case here as these things seem to in general go to either really high or just break late game to where profit is unimaginable.

And as i said before the smallest tweak to caravans could cause major issues such as towns not having enough food or msking workshops even worse since now nobody is buying so while it could bring a lot of positives without testing thatvwhole 10% less caravans thing i dont think i can give a fully honest opinion

Right now the system will consume more food if production is too high through the growth in prosperity. IE the system can never produce too much because consumption will eventually rise to meet it, so prices cannot fall too low.

The problem is that there is no counter system to increase production, so overtime it is possible for not enough to be produced, leading to ever-increasing prices. If there is a simple modifier to production added where increased prices drive up production, then prices will have a very strong tendency to stabilize at some point.

Edit: This fix would also prevent people from buying up all the supplies to drive prices up and then sell all their stuff for a profit. I also think this might be part of the reason that people report prices tend to even out throughout the world, but I can't be sure.

 

[Flesson19]

If the point of this whole system is to help control runaway prosperity, wouldn't a better approach be to make prosperity increase more like how skill points increase? As in, at low prosperity it increases very fast, but at high prosperity it increases much slower until at a certain point it will barely increase at all.

yeah I had that idea a modifier as it get higher or lower than the average the rate of increase or decrease slows, but yes great idea +1

 

[Baerstein]

i would prefer a fixed min and max for everything in this game. every zero prosperi town i visit have zero money in it and the other skyrocket prosperi have lots of money. Players will always find a way to destroy the economy.

 

[nereid]

The problem is that you don't really want the lords to be more efficient at solving the issues when you're actually looking for quests to do. Then we'd be complaining about how hard it is to find any quests when we're looking to improve our recruiting pool.

This is really a super easy to problem to solve. Just make it so unsolved issues don't affect prosperity. It was a bad idea in the first place. Balancing it out will only make it a slightly less bad idea.

True, I concur totally. My proposal would only be a band-aid.

 

[JDZ5]

Castles should give you more money, not less for owning them. I barely break even with a castle w/ garrisoned troops, caravan, and a sizeable army. This has happened to me on multiple play throughs where it's cheaper give my castle away than to keep it.
-783 Garrisoned troops (122 troops)
-542 Army (88 troops)
+212 Settlement 1
+264 Settlement 2
+339 Castle
Total of -510
This shouldn't happen. I should at the very least break even. Maybe negative double digits. But not 500. I shouldn't HAVE to buy a caravan to break even. At the very least a castle with no fiefs should be able to support the garrison inside of it. As of right now, I avoid getting castles. In a game about taking castles. Lowered garrisoned troop wages by 30 - 50%, would at least make the losses manageable.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

its because you have to many troops man for your income ^^ if you do your economics right this shouldn't be an issue but you just cant pump the whole castles with troops if you dont have the income for it (same as managing an army) nor the production for taxes. But sure maybe it should be tweaked just a little but not to much in my opinion or else people are gonna pump in defenses like no tomorrow without having to lift a finger. Defend your villages as well because if they go down so does your taxes

 

[JDZ5]

its because you have to many troops man for your income ^^ of you do your economics right this shouldn't be an issue but you just cant pump the whole castles with troops if you dont have the income for it (same as managing an army) nor the production for taxes. But sure maybe it should be tweaked just a little but not to much in my opinion or else people are gonna pump in defenses like no tomorrow without having to lift a finger. Defend your villages as well because if they go down so does your taxes

122 troops with a roaming army of 88 isn't by any means big, and I'm loosing money with both my fiefs up. -510 per day. That's a huge issue. With a garrisoned troop wage reduction I'd be able to barely break even. Am I just supposed to leave my castles with 60 troops?

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

isnt it 723 (militia) garrisoned troops + 122 regular ? Personally i dont have a problem with mines but yeah in the beginning when my characters fresh i need to stay low with troops and guard it with my own or risk it and go to war campaigns to make good money but that decision must be thought thru strategically. Thing is that you level them up so fast that your budget breaks fast in the beginning to so its also about quality troops chewing on that budget you dont have in the beginning. Steward skills + governor have also helped me in the past in the beginning breaking it up of which im certain you're aware of and leadership asw if you´re going ham on troops

 

[JDZ5]

isnt it 723 (militia) garrisoned troops + 122 regular ? Personally i dont have a problem with mines but yeah in the beginning when my characters fresh i need to stay low with troops and guard it with my own or risk it and go to war campaigns to make good money but that decision must be thought thru strategically. Thing is that you level them up so fast that your budget breaks fast in the beginning to so its also about quality troops chewing on that budget you dont have in the beginning. Steward skills + governor have also helped me in the past in the beginning breaking it up of which im certain you're aware of and leadership asw if you´re going ham on troops

The militia is only around 200ish, -783 is the amount of gold I'm loosing per day, and the 122 are my own personal troops I've put in there. Militia actually don't consume food and don't cost anything to be stationed in a castle.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

The militia is only around 200ish, -783 is the amount of gold I'm loosing per day, and the 122 are my own personal troops I've put in there. Militia actually don't consume food and don't cost anything to be stationed in a castle.

hmmm then it shouldn't be any problem with that low count well except for the regulars. Is the 122 high lvled troops ? if so you might have to take em out and use em to get some money or donate them pref to your allied neighbor until you have the skills, infrastructure and budget to sustain your castle. Start building tax office there to asap if there isnt any... It takes time to get it started but later on you will not even notice em and your castles will def generate you some good stack of denars But it doesn't mean you can just let em be. Castles are ment to be defended and its always an risk if you venture of as it is for the Ai when they leave theirs. usually hip on 1/2 for the defenses so 300 defenders usually can fend off 600 but depends ofc on couple of factors