Dear Taleworlds, Is there any way you can remove the 2048 unit cap on battle size for the game?

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Midnitewolf

Sergeant
I have a pretty powerful gaming rig and have found that I can run a modded battle size of 1500 extremely easy and probably even break 2000. However, due to the 2048 unit hardcoded limitation plus the fact that cavalry and horse archers are counted as two units for the purpose of this limitation, I am finding as a Khuzait with a lot of horse mounted troops, that I have to dial everything back down due to the game crashing when I try to fight any large battles.

Also, I just wanted to say that I understand that from a performance standpoint, having an unlimited troop count slider is not something that can be added into the base game simply because too many people can't understand that adding huge armies to the game, causes performance issues so I am not talking about a expanding the battle size in the base games UI, I am just talking about removing the limitations so that I can run a modded battle size of 2000-3000+ units without running into a hard crash if I happen to hit that magical 2048 units on the battlefield at a time.

Also, I realize this hard cap might be a game engine limitation but if it is not, could we get it unlocked or at least greatly expanded? Also I can't help but think that if I can run 1500+ now, in a couple years when I put in a brand new Ryzen 6000 series processor, that I should be able to get 2000-2500 or more down the road.
 
2048 is a power of 2, so it really looks like something related to engine limit, but I just can't understand how and why. Also I cant understand why cavalry are counted as two for both soldier and horse, normally they are together, hardly seeing cavalry unmounted(if horse is still alive), and if the soldier is killed, only a horse remain, so it is also only one unit, and AI for horses is supposed to be much simpler compare to soldiers.
Anyway, hope this limit will be unlocked in the future, and if not, TW will explain why this is the engine limit.
 
For whatever reason beyond 2048 there is some sort of presumed overflow error. It is presumably based on entities, and that means to prevent overflow anything with a horse counts as two. A horse is a separate entity from a person. It has health, AI (if not ridden), movement, etc.
From the computing point of view they are the same.
You would need to strip them down to equipment properties for they to not count, which means no health, no movement at all if dismounted, no equipable horse armor, oldest ones disappearing if too many are made to limit the number present, etc

That all said, if it could be made so all troops start dismounted at sieges (cav just flat out not loaded in), you could drop the doubling so have more troops for sieges
 
For whatever reason beyond 2048 there is some sort of presumed overflow error. It is presumably based on entities, and that means to prevent overflow anything with a horse counts as two. A horse is a separate entity from a person. It has health, AI (if not ridden), movement, etc.
From the computing point of view they are the same.
The question is why presume this limit. If purpose is to maintain performance by controlling runtime complexity, horse AI is much simple than soldier, and it is supposed to weight less than soldiers.
 
The question is why presume this limit. If purpose is to maintain performance by controlling runtime complexity, horse AI is much simple than soldier, and it is supposed to weight less than soldiers.
You are right the overflow error is tenuous at best. It is only based on it being a power of 2. If someone has a more firm answer I'm all ears.

To be clear, I'm not commenting the merits of a design that has such a overflow error. I'm just answering that would be why the cap is set at that number. And that if it is an overflow error, that is why it cannot be increased. It not a matter of game running slowly. It is a matter the game breaks beyond that number. if it is baked deep in the engine, it can't be fixed barring some significant code re write, if at all. you can't wave it away with better hardware.

in a somewhat similar manner, that is why the fact horse AI is simpler is irrelevant. The fact the game is tracking it as an entity, at all, of a class like a person means to that overflow limit they are the same as a person. Unless you stripped a horse to be an object like a sword entirely it counts
 
it would be nice for 10yrs from now when we're all waiting for Mount and blade 3 with PCs 5x or more better than current hardware
 

AndrewArt

Sergeant
Also, I just wanted to say that I understand that from a performance standpoint, having an unlimited troop count slider is not something that can be added into the base game simply because too many people can't understand that adding huge armies to the game, causes performance issues
this sentence is why I have lost faith in humanity
 
1000 is the limit their engine can handle without any issues and that´s totally fine for me.

Limiting options between 1-1000, as they did with the last update, because some people don´t understand that more troops means less performance on their potatoe PCs is not okay though...
 
1000 is the limit their engine can handle without any issues and that´s totally fine for me.

Limiting options between 1-1000, as they did with the last update, because some people don´t understand that more troops means less performance on their potatoe PCs is not okay though...
What do you mean? Wasn't it always capped at 1000 without mods?

Wouldn't a simple warning message be sufficient to let people know that larger battle = more work for computer ?
 
What do you mean? Wasn't it always capped at 1000 without mods?

Wouldn't a simple warning message be sufficient to let people know that larger battle = more work for computer ?
We had a slider and you could set it to like any number up to 1000. Now we have a drop down menu with limited options.

TW said they received too many bug reports from players reporting bad performance with a high troop count with their potatoe PCs.

So they thought the best idea is to reduce the options instead of ignoring those "bug" reports from stupid people and reduce the options for all people, even the "smart" ones who were aware that their Pentium 2 CPU can´t handle 870 troops :wink:

I mean I´m not even affected because I play with 1000 troops but still...TW is dumbing the game down for those people wherever possible....

We had many instances of players reporting bad performance in battles and in their options, the battle size option was maxed out. This is mostly because previously we didn't give enough information about the quality equivalence of this option. Players didn't know what to expect with the number they're selecting.
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Apocal

Master Knight
That all said, if it could be made so all troops start dismounted at sieges (cav just flat out not loaded in), you could drop the doubling so have more troops for sieges
All mounted troops, except the player, are dismounted during sieges.
 

AndrewArt

Sergeant
We had a slider and you could set it to like any number up to 1000. Now we have a drop down menu with limited options.

TW said they received too many bug reports from players reporting bad performance with a high troop count with their potatoe PCs.

So they thought the best idea is to reduce the options instead of ignoring those "bug" reports from stupid people and reduce the options for all people, even the "smart" ones who were aware that their Pentium 2 CPU can´t handle 870 troops :wink:

I mean I´m not even affected because I play with 1000 troops but still...TW is dumbing the game down for those people wherever possible....
At this point I'm just curious, and I want someone on this forum to admit that they didn't know that troop numbers affected performance... I want to see if there is someone so shameless about their own stupidity... But now that I think about it, there were indeed plenty of people on steam complaining about performance. I was confused because game was running fine for me and many others. Never in a million years would I have thought that they actually didn't realize that big battles = lower performance, and their wooden PCs can't handle it, though...

I hope the next patch will bring something good to the game, I'm waiting to play again.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
At this point I'm just curious, and I want someone on this forum to admit that they didn't know that troop numbers affected performance... I want to see if there is someone so shameless about their own stupidity... But now that I think about it, there were indeed plenty of people on steam complaining about performance. I was confused because game was running fine for me and many others. Never in a million years would I have thought that they actually didn't realize that big battles = lower performance, and their wooden PCs can't handle it, though...

I hope the next patch will bring something good to the game, I'm waiting to play again.
When I was playing on a potato, I set my troop numbers to 500 at EA start and bumped up to 700 as performance got better over the months.
 

AndrewArt

Sergeant
When I was playing on a potato, I set my troop numbers to 500 at EA start and bumped up to 700 as performance got better over the months.
as any person with a brain would do, indeed a logical solution...

Again, as others have said, I think a warning for people who didn't know this would be enough.... Even add a color for performance (300-500 troops in the green, 500-700 troops in the orange, 700-1000 troops in the red as an example for the effect on performance). Nothing mods won't fix in the future anyway, but I just wish devs thought their solutions out a little bit more sometimes... But anyway, I hope for steam workshop sometime this year, that is when I want to start meddling with mods. I'm sure devs won't get everything right by the end of development, but at least I'd like seeing them not make some things worse if anything... maybe the next patch will be a way better one than the last one, I'm hoping for it.
 
So I guess there's no way the engine can be updated to increase the size limit.

The only way we'll be able to play with the limit modded and set to 2048 without constant crashes is if, when spawning reinforcements, the game could be made to count the number of individual horses in the same way that it counts units/men left on the battlefield, so the number of 'entities' is never pushed over 2048. No idea if that's possible.
 
because some people don´t understand that more troops means less performance on their potatoe PCs is not okay though...
Since choice of battle size is placed under 'Performance' sub-category of 'Setting', I doubt those who can not notice battlesize will affect performance can actually read.
 
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