Dead born baby still floating around...kek

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vym

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Donno how to start...Tried Bannerlord again few days ago. Sigh.
First of all I've played M&B and all expansions and mods thousands of hours for at least 10 years. And I can sincerely tell you that its my favorite game.
Now what developers did with Bannerlord. What is the most suitable and precise word? A mess? Clumsy, illogical, dead born unfixable mess?
So it was 1.5.9:
- looters still have unlimited stock of stone in theirs torn pants and in realistic mode can few shot you, same time having 150+ health pool. Fail.
- all units are still having copy paste states eg. top tier units 130-80-80-60-30-130 etc. except batanians and few others. Fail.
- tournaments are still absolutely unrewarding. 1200-1500 gold for region wide tournament plus some ****ty armor piece for 400-800 gold? Really? Fail.
- units combat AI is still non existent. After hold position command all my line is broken by 1 FCKN mounted enemy unit meanwhile archers and infantry attacking my army from flanks. Mounted units behavior is absolutely idiotic - they just charging in nowhere, then charging another way, then running circles. Mounted lords behavior is even more stupid. They just jerking around battlefield doing something inexplicably chaotic. Fail.
- graphics textures are still glitchy. Half of battlefields blinking with shadows and artefacts. PC spec - i5 10400f, 16Gb RAM, Asus 1080ti.
- loot is still non existent too. I mean WTF after defeating 350+ lord armies for 10 times all I could loot was a few broken bows, spears, torn pants and gambesons, 2 ****ty horses and bunch of food supplies?! And its from tier 4+ troops and lords!
- character leveling and perks is a biggest issue for me. Frankly I dont even feel any progress after a week of playing. Few useless perks here and there.
- prices for weapons and armor are still beyond good and evil. Arrows for 18000, bows 18000, ****ty armor 20000+, horse armor 20000+
- sea raiders (my favorite basic challenge on MB game start with decent loot and exp) are useless bums in Bannerlor. After killing 100+ of them got literally ZERO loot, except same always broken spears, shields and torn pants.
- WHY?! for the love of God morningstar (my favorite MB weapon) and other maces having THRUST damage?! How dafuq you can thrust with mace unless you are complete idiot?!

Bottom line: I have no idea what happened to developers. Really. My imagination is helpless here. How? HOW?! How after perfect MB they could create THIS?!
 
Don't take it personal or anything but I decided to simplify your post. Skimmed out the emotional parts and included the main things you were trying to say. If I missed out on anything or similar, let me know.

- Looters have infinite stones. On realistic difficulty, their damage and health are ramped up considerably.
- Most top tier units have the same stat layout.
- Tournaments not paying as much as they should
- Combat AI and formation issues
- Graphic issues (artifacts)
- Loot being super unrewarding
- Character leveling/perks not feeling impactful enough
- Prices of weapons/armor being inconsistent.
- Thrusting with a Mace isn't logical

I personally feel the levelling/perk system is just fine, and I don't think thrusting with a mace is a serious concern, but the rest of them are fair points or bug reports. One note: I do not recall any troop in the game having over 100 HP since "humans" are capped at 100 HP but I could be wrong.
 
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looters still have unlimited stock of stone in theirs torn pants and in realistic mode can few shot you, same time having 150+ health pool. Fail.
Yeah looters are too strong for the lowest trash IMO, too many rocks, rocks to accurate, too much HP and also too many spawned in fat pile at the start of the game sometimes. Also the way they rout now means like I got caught by 30 of them (I was greedy and had too many horses) so I kill em but they rout so fast that then I have to fight 29m then 15 then 12 and so on, it's really obnoxious.

all units are still having copy paste states eg. top tier units 130-80-80-60-30-130 etc. except batanians and few others. Fail.
Yeah, but also the stats don't feel like they matter much, everything dies in two hits from anything . Only Bow skill seems to have noticeable effect of "good range" of the troops, but melee and stuff .... feels like still in place holder form.

tournaments are still absolutely unrewarding. 1200-1500 gold for region wide tournament plus some ****ty armor piece for 400-800 gold? Really? Fail.
I think it's okay because they are shorter, however I wish they would ad the team commands in like we had in warband. Tourneys are super easy unless you are in a 2 man group and the other guy just doesn't behave, if you could make him stand in SW or fallow you of run to the wall, that'd be good.

units combat AI is still non existent. After hold position command all my line is broken by 1 FCKN mounted enemy unit meanwhile archers and infantry attacking my army from flanks. Mounted units behavior is absolutely idiotic - they just charging in nowhere, then charging another way, then running circles.
Yeah it's pretty awful.

loot is still non existent too. I mean WTF after defeating 350+ lord armies for 10 times all I could loot was a few broken bows, spears, torn pants and gambesons, 2 ****ty horses and bunch of food supplies?! And its from tier 4+ troops and lords!
At least most gear eventually get made by the shops now, so you can just sell the junk and save up for something good.

character leveling and perks is a biggest issue for me. Frankly I dont even feel any progress after a week of playing. Few useless perks here and there.
There's a great disparity between some skill/perk sets being very good and some just being petty little nothing check marks. And then some are just so slow to raise they hardly ever feel worth investing into, even if thier effect is good.

prices for weapons and armor are still beyond good and evil. Arrows for 18000, bows 18000, ****ty armor 20000+, horse armor 20000+
I agree crappy basic armor is sometime too much but there are some decent eco pieces if you shop around, like leather brigandine vest. I'm okay with the top shelf armor and weapons costing the fortune they do, but I wish the armor effects were greater.

sea raiders (my favorite basic challenge on MB game start with decent loot and exp) are useless bums in Bannerlor. After killing 100+ of them got literally ZERO loot, except same always broken spears, shields and torn pants.
Yeah, it goes back to you other loot complaint, the loot system is just not what we'd expect from warband. It was cool farming metal armor from sea raiders in warband and I was initially dis-a-point too.

WHY?! for the love of God morningstar (my favorite MB weapon) and other maces having THRUST damage?! How dafuq you can thrust with mace unless you are complete idiot?!
Idduno but some of em did it in warband too. I think it's just to give the player 'freedom' of how they swing the weapon. I think the chain attacks are awful though and kinda take away the freedom feeling, like I'm wrestling to make the weapon NOT chain into an attack I don't want. I would like a lock button to lock out certain chain or directional attacks you just never ever want on a certain weapon.
Bottom line: I have no idea what happened to developers. Really. My imagination is helpless here. How? HOW?! How after perfect MB they could create THIS?!
They just didn't try to re-create the warband mechanics. It's been pretty ineffective ever since MP beta people have been saying "oh...this is...well could you make it more like warband?" and no, they don't want to.

You got valid criticism, the titles a little weird, I was expecting something very different.
 
Well, 1.5.9 (and 1.5.10) were pretty bad patches with plenty of issues (especially performance), I think most can agree. You should however play the most recent 1.6 beta instead, then give your impressions. It's pretty good in comparison, and maybe your graphics issue would even be fixed.

Some issues you're mentioning I feel are purely out of warband nostalgia though. Many of your complaints are that the game isn't easy enough, or is a tad bit grindy, or isn't warband. My take on things:

Tournament rewards are fine, even though they give less money the more you rank up on the leaderboard. That's fine, otherwise people would grind tournaments forever like there isn't anything else to do in the game. Get the roguery double bet perk for tournaments if you really want more tournament money (it's the 50 roguery perk). Also, once you reach number 1 on the leaderboard you get 1 daily renown which is pretty cool (that's 40-50 won tournaments, which are plenty to start your economy and I'd say it's enough lord-beating that it makes sense that you're now considered the best of the best, which is why you earn less money by betting on yourself, because the odds are in your favor).

About equipments, 20,000 should be nothing once you're in mid-game if you manage your economy right (don't over-upgrade your troops, get some workshops, defeat lord parties, create caravans, play as a mercenary. Don't rely solely on tournaments to gain money (everybody was doing that at the start of EA but it ain't gonna cut it anymore). Up your trading as well if you want, play as aserai culture too (the trading penalty does help). There are plenty of options to make money. I really don't mind the 20,000 price range, it's really not a lot.

Perks and leveling have a better progression now, it's easier to gain experience, so improvements have been made as of 1.6.0. We also got a couple of more good perks (stewardship perks) that are pretty significant, and overall I think TW is doing a good job balancing the perks in a way that they don't make you a demigod on the battlefield like in Warband, which is a good thing. Still, more "significant perks" are always welcomed, as long as they're balanced, and some reworks here and there can indeed be good. Still hoping for the roguery big army of bandits perk btw 🙏.

Loot needs to be balanced, in the sense that we shouldn't get tens of thousands worth of equipment from defeating a lord, so in that sense I think it's good. Loot really shouldn't give you all the money in the world imo, because it would completely overshadow all the other ways of making money. I love that everything contributes to your overall economy and you can find a use for every method. I see two options here: either get tons of junk, or get a few high quality items in-between some junk. Still, loot shouldn't give tons of easy cash like that. By leveling roguery though, it definitely should be profitable. +%Loot bonus should be impactful enough, in the sense that without it you get a lot of junk, and with it you get better items (which may or may not already be the case, I haven't really tested high roguery, but it does say +%Loot so try that maybe.)

Looters. I personally like that they pose a challenge, in the sense that the player can't just go all brainless rambo and take on an army of looters by himself (which yeah, you could say they're the worst of the worst, but it's still an army of people). You still can do it though if you really wanna. Get a crossbow, 3 stacks of bolts and a horse and I'm sure you can figure it out from there. All in all, should stones get a nerf in damage? Idk. I wouldn't nerf stones just to nerf stones. Maybe armor should also provide a blunt/bludgeoning damage resistance, especially heavier armors or certain types of armors, but Idk. Either way I'm fine with the game presenting a little bit of challenge at least.

My bottom line: game's pretty good and I'm sure it will just keep getting better.
 

vym

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Same goes to units EXP. After defeating 550, 350 and 270 men armies I leveled up...8 tier 1-2 troops. REALLY?
I mean everything in this game is soooooooooo fckd up, that its barely playable for me. And the most funny that everything can be tweaked in a few hours to become at least little bit less annoying and more realistic. But its still there for many many months.
 

vym

Recruit
Loot needs to be balanced, in the sense that we shouldn't get tens of thousands worth of equipment from defeating a lord, so in that sense I think it's good. Loot really shouldn't give you all the money in the world imo, because it would completely overshadow all the other ways of making money. I love that everything contributes to your overall economy and you can find a use for every method. I see two options here: either get tons of junk, or get a few high quality items in-between some junk. Still, loot shouldn't give tons of easy cash like that. By leveling roguery though, it definitely should be profitable. +%Loot bonus should be impactful enough, in the sense that without it you get a lot of junk, and with it you get better items (which may or may not already be the case, I haven't really tested high roguery, but it does say +%Loot so try that maybe.)

Excuse me sir, but if I defeated a lord with top tier equipment WTH I can not have it?! Yes it can be damaged during a fight (body armor and helmet) but at least few parts must be in fine condition. Same goes if I knocked him down from his horse on the battlefield. WTH I can not take his horse with its full plate body armor? I'm talking about realism here, not some fantastic crap that I'm looting few broken shields and spears after defeating top tier lord's army.
 
Excuse me sir, but if I defeated a lord with top tier equipment WTH I can not have it?! Yes it can be damaged during a fight (body armor and helmet) but at least few parts must be in fine condition. Same goes if I knocked him down from his horse on the battlefield. WTH I can not take his horse with its full plate body armor? I'm talking about realism here, not some fantastic crap that I'm looting few broken shields and spears after defeating top tier lord's army.
I mean, you can say many arguments from a realism perspective but we're talking about gameplay now. For example, if one soldier throws a javelin in my head, should that not guarantee my permanent death, with no chance to recover? It's realistic after all.

But we also must consider gameplay. If you were to loot the horse the lord is riding, or his full plate armor, there is literally no need to buy armor or an expensive horse ever in the game. Even if you also lost your armors and horse on defeat (which btw you don't, so you only have to buy things once, which is really nice), the player has such a huge advantage in battles that he could just go fight another lord and get another heavy set of armor and horse... it's just not good gameplay.

And, if the devs would make high end stuff very cheap, so that it makes sense that we can now loot it from troops, I mean, what are we going to even spend money on anymore? It just doesn't feel right to me.

Also, do try the increased roguery skill, you should get better loot I imagine. And all in all it would make sense. Roguery (=being a bastard) means you would try to recover as much loot as possible, strip the enemy troops naked if you have to. So I really like the idea of roguery increasing loot, and of getting garbage without it, which I hope is the case. Other than that, I do think there will be loot improvements, like I stated. Yet, about what you said, realism is better off the table when considering gameplay sometimes.
 

kreamy

Sergeant
Don't take it personal or anything but I decided to simplify your post. Skimmed out the emotional parts and included the main things you were trying to say. If I missed out on anything or similar, let me know.

- Looters have infinite stones. On realistic difficulty, their damage and health are ramped up considerably.
- Most top tier units have the same stat layout.
- Tournaments not paying as much as they should
- Combat AI and formation issues
- Graphic issues (artifacts)
- Loot being super unrewarding
- Character leveling/perks not feeling impactful enough
- Prices of weapons/armor being inconsistent.
- Thrusting with a Mace isn't logical

I personally feel the levelling/perk system is just fine, and I don't think thrusting with a mace is a serious concern, but the rest of them are fair points or bug reports. One note: I do not recall any troop in the game having over 100 HP since "humans" are capped at 100 HP but I could be wrong.
what a champ
 

five bucks

Sergeant at Arms
Let's dial things back a bit. Bannerlord has heaps of issues that still need working out, and development is going too slowly for almost everyone's tastes, but it isn't a "dead born, unfixable mess."

There is a lot that's really good with the fundamental framework of the game, which is very well-made. Hell, it's even fun for a playthrough and a half. Until you get bored of the gameplay being built around grind/luck/exploits and the shallow-feeling world.

TW are improving it - slowly but surely. Maybe one day it might even offer the features it's missing from Warband, though they remain strangely reluctant to actually confirm this simple matter.
 
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vym

Recruit
Dear developers, you gave me a dream. Let me share it with you.
Anyone of you put ragged pants without pockets and take 20 stones (you can shove them in any place of your body you like) with you - same your fckn looters have - and I will take my broom only. The challenge is simple - you must run follow me with 20 stones in ragged pants only without pockets and I will run away from you in jeans and fat leather jacket. The point is knock to me down. If you will fail I will beat the **** out of you with my broom. Deal?
 
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vym

Recruit
Few more absolutely retarded moments:
- looters equipped with gambesons and falchions and its a fact (after installing loot mod I saw it with my eyes). REALLY?!
- auto battles are still apotheosis of idiocy. Sending 10 Battanian Scouts and 10 trained warriors vs 18 looters caused 3-4 casualties of tier 4 level 21 scouts! I mean how they even being calculated?!
HUGE /facepalm...
 

LDominating

Recruit
Whoever says thrusting with a mace isn't realistic...well you can,it acts like a punch.
Also I am sure the only maces thrustable are spiked ones,and I believe it's a T2 one.
Used by Empire Archers T2 if I'm not mistaken.
 

vym

Recruit
Now I can explain why we all getting such a ****ty loot:
- looters equipped with gambesons (600+ gold) and falchions (as I told before for 500-900 gold). You can see prices for these items yourselves. Developers dont want us to gear up too fast and become rich too fast too.
- bandits hideout. Some t1-t2 bandits equipped with emperial javelins (145000 gold).
Etc. Now I have big list of trash units equipped with t4-t6 weapons. Thats why we can not have full loot system.
And one more question. How dafuq armor and damage mitigation working FFS?! Now I have 52 body armor. Looters stone from 32m range made 19 chest damage!!! WTF is that?! It mean stone damage was 71 blunt?! Same goes to any other weapon with damage little bit higher than my body armor. Cut damage 54, armor 52 and Im getting 30-40 damage during on foot fight.
My axe damage 72 cut. Im riding a horse. Looter running away. My speed>>>than looter's. Im making 26-38 damage with FCKN axe on his bare head!
So literally all in-game mechanics such as physics, speed, armor etc. are fckd up right now. Its just a one huge mess and mystery.

P.S. Yesterday after installing 9 (NINE!!!) mods and half a day tweaking I finally made almost perfect game for me. Except retarded combat AI targeting and unpredictable behavior on battlefields.
 
P.S. Yesterday after installing 9 (NINE!!!) mods and half a day tweaking I finally made almost perfect game for me. Except retarded combat AI targeting and unpredictable behavior on battlefields.
All the previous stuff you talked about should be addressed at some point, but this one and siege pathing or two biggies and they need to be addressed asap. Other than that my biggest gripe is the poor control we have over clans, and how little control we have ruling our own Kingdom.
 
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