Day 227 Sturgia is no more. I did not even lift a finger.

[Apothnesko]

From the screenshots you all posted it seems to me that most frequent thing is not Sturgia losing, but Khuzait winning. This eventually ends with Sturgia losing too, but the Empires also seem in losing position. Which imho signals the bigger issue is Khuzait being OP rather than Sturgia being weak (not saying that Sturgia doesn't have problems because it has many, but there seems to be another issue here).
Khuzait being OP is not a surprise, and most likely comes from 2 things mentioned in this and other threads:
- cavalry advantage in simulations
- Khuzait speed advantage in campaign map - this is possibly bigger issue than the first because it lets them choose engagements, press winning situations and avoid loses.

The question is how to balance these advantages with other factors.
Make their cultural bonus only apply on steppe terrain?
Perhaps decrease spawn rate of recruits in Khuzait lands?
Make cavalry take more than 1 party slots (like 1.2 or so) so cavalry-only armies are smaller?

Auto calc is going to be huge factor. Considering just standard troop trees you have a 50% chance at cav on tier 2. Add to that fact that they have an automatic .5 speed boost on the map if cultural bonuses affect ai lords. After testing it earlier, I found it affects you at all times. On foot or horseback. With or without horses in your inventory.

 

[Drenai]

I don't think that troops that are primarily on foot should stand a chance against troops that are primarily on horseback, especially horse archers, the Romans found that out.
Cavalry in the open should dominate, cavalry in the forest should be at a disadvantage, this is how it should be, not some artificial buffs and nerfs.

I'm moderately concerned about the call for balance between the factions, I don't really want the difficulty to be the same no matter which faction I play for, once I get through a campaign as the Empire, I would like to give the Sturgian faction a go, and for it to be tough game.
If however the calls are heeded by Taleworlds then I can just as easily go for a mod.

 

[Sarissofoi]

Yeah their strategic bonus from feat with their army having large portion of cavalry(and thus fast) and auto calc bonus from cavalry(that work even in sieges) make them unstoppable.
That lead them to getting more fiefs and more lords and they boost their ranks with local manpower.
Thus snowballing.
There really need some penalty for foreign lords/kingdoms that keep foreign lands. More problems and less recruits and cash.

 

[Sarissofoi]

I decided to make a small experiment and chop up not imperial factions.
>Eastern Strugia got some Nomad lands and clans and no war with Vlandia
>Western Strugia(Nords) get some Vlandian lands and clans plus some Battanian and war with Vlandia
>both Khuzaits and Vlandias are weaker with less lands and clans

As far as it goes.
>Khuzaits were contained by some time with East Sturgians and North Empire taking some castles from them but start rolling back recently

>Nords were bullied by Vlandia but lost only former Vlandian possessions and now just sit in their remaining lands
>both North and South Empire are pretty strong but Western Emprie is bullied by everyone
>Vlandians start rolling again

And of course soon Khuzaits are on the rise again.

 

[mexxico]

Does cavalry get a penalty for siege battles? It would be interesting if these buffs were more situational, for example the cavalry buff only applies to non siege battles and foot troops get a buff of 20% in siege battles to even the playing field.

While reducing that penalty to 20% I also wanted to totally remove it during a siege however I see this advantage is directly added to party's Strength variable which is not possible (if done can create lots of new problems) to modify during siege. Probably it will not stay like this in long term.

 

[Meraun]

Well 224 is pretty long, isnt a factrion supposed to die out at some point? I mean, one faction will always win (i like taht)

 

[Sarissofoi]

While reducing that penalty to 20% I also wanted to totally remove it during a siege however I see this advantage is directly added to party's Strength variable which is not possible (if done can create lots of new problems) to modify during siege. Probably it will not stay like this in long term.

That is bad news.
I guess one can always increase heavy infantry tier and lower light cavalry one but it lead to another part of problems. Especially with how leveling work right now.

 

[Dabos37]

While reducing that penalty to 20% I also wanted to totally remove it during a siege however I see this advantage is directly added to party's Strength variable which is not possible (if done can create lots of new problems) to modify during siege. Probably it will not stay like this in long term.

Would be possible to remove this bonus completely for the moment? If I have understood correctly, now cavalry units also have 20% advantage in sieges which makes no sense. This is probably one if the reasons because Khuzaits and Vlandia are doing so good currently in campaign and losing less men than they should in sieges. Thanks!

 

[Tacaxs]

While reducing that penalty to 20% I also wanted to totally remove it during a siege however I see this advantage is directly added to party's Strength variable which is not possible (if done can create lots of new problems) to modify during siege. Probably it will not stay like this in long term.

Even though you said it would be long term, I would like to Add that it would probably also make sense for archers to have advantage during siege defense.

 

[PeteSKTemplar]

Woud not be possible to set cavalry bonus according to horse type? Like for example - regular (light) horse 10 percent movement speed, warhorse (heavy) 10 percento to autocalc?

About Sturgia and Aserai problematic geography - could central city by the sea (Varnovapol / Qasira) have "seaport" to "teleport" army to the side left or right of the sea to be able to cross its too long realm more quickly?

 

[TheChewieShow]

The question is how to balance these advantages with other factors.
Make their cultural bonus only apply on steppe terrain?
Perhaps decrease spawn rate of recruits in Khuzait lands?
Make cavalry take more than 1 party slots (like 1.2 or so) so cavalry-only armies are smaller?

Personally I like the idea I seen before on this forum.

-Horses need to eat food, therefore Horse units consume twice the amount of food than normal troops (This in current version won't work anyways because AI doesn't really care if their troops are starving)
AND
- Horse units get -35% to defense and offense when in siege battles

This would make Kazuits still great at battle combat but not so good at taking castles and cities.

 

[TheChewieShow]

Well 224 is pretty long, isnt a factrion supposed to die out at some point? I mean, one faction will always win (i like taht)

The problem is, if the game is supposed to be played with generations of one clan (You can have kids and play as your kid when your character dies of old age) then factions getting taken over this early defeats the purpose of even having kids.

If one faction can just take over all other this easily, it becomes an unstoppable power. This means the player will have to either fight this one function all the time or join them.

I like the idea that mod Calradia at War made. In this mod, each faction has a chance of getting an inside rebellion due to their size. The bigger the faction the bigger the chance of some lord rebelling and going on their own.

 

[Yormund]

Maybe disabling/decreasing the rate of clan defections could be part of a solution? Less clans=>less armies=>longer time between the battles and less snowballing? I'd bet that in most of those playthroughs, whoever owned Tyal, was joining Khuzait shortly after?

I like the defection mechanic allright but I do think it's a bit too common for clans to switch sides. It does not seem to realistic either. Maybe the clan defections should start only after their homeland is basically beaten, down to something like two castles? The other case could be to try and overthrow the current ruling clan - but for that, maybe it should be a civil war type of event? Major clans vying for power is great, but clans simply going on a faction tournee is pretty immersion breaking IMO. It should not be so easy to just betray your liege.

I'd rather have them happen much less frequently, but maybe on a bigger scale tbh.

 

[Bannerman Man]

Here are the results of another simulation to add to the pile. 8 years. No player interference.

Final Tally:

Fiefs and Clans:

Factions	Towns	Castles	Noble Clans	Mercenary Clans
Aserai	6	5	8	7
Battania	8	18	10	0
Khuzait	13	19	15	0
Northern Empire	0	0	1	4
Southern Empire	11	11	15	0
Sturgia	0	0	1	0
Vlandia	10	9	10	0
Western Empire	5	5	6	0

Notes:

Keep in mind this picture doesn't tell the full story, it's just a snapshot. For instance, Vostrum changed hands no fewer than 5 times to 4 different factions, but because it was eventually taken back by the S.E. you can't tell from the picture.

Sturgia fell first, followed by the Northern Empire a few years later. The western half of Sturgia was slowly conquered by Battania, then the other half quickly fell to Khuzait some time later. The fact that Tyal and Varnovapol still belong to their original owners makes me believe that they defected to Khuzait rather than being conquered.

Aserai currently employs 7 minor faction clans as mercenaries. No other faction in the realm owns any, other than the Northern Empire whom are totally wiped out.

Sanala once again proves it is the clear cut powerhouse of the realm. No other town is within 5000 prosperity of Sanala. Because Sanala has such high prosperity, its prices are greater relative to all other towns. Caravans don't buy much from Sanala when they visit, and tend to head to other high prosperity towns when they leave, because those are the only towns that can offer a profit on the high prices of goods. Most of the grain produced by surrounding villages is consumed by Sanala itself, rather than getting sold to caravans.

The 3 out of 4 of the new Daily Defaults are really powerful, with the boost to loyalty being the only weak one (Festival and Games). Sanala has 16k prosperity and is still growing by +27 per day. Chaikand has 800+ militia. Many villages have north of 1000 hearths (hearths even continue to grow dispite being raided when 'Irrigation' is active).

Because the 'Housing' daily default is percentage based it compounds over time and higher prosperity towns grow faster than low prosperity towns. Here's an example of what I mean:

I have a feeling this will cause problems down the line. Also, because the Loyalty daily default is so underwhelming compared to the other 3, towns that are "stuck" on Festival and Games are essentially wasting their bonus. The AI doesn't seem to know how to properly factor this in.

 

[TheChewieShow]

Here are the results of another simulation to add to the pile. 8 years. No player interference.

Final Tally:

Fiefs and Clans:

Factions	Towns	Castles	Noble Clans	Mercenary Clans
Aserai	6	5	8	7
Battania	8	18	10	0
Khuzait	13	19	15	0
Northern Empire	0	0	1	4
Southern Empire	11	11	15	0
Sturgia	0	0	1	0
Vlandia	10	9	10	0
Western Empire	5	5	6	0

Notes:

Keep in mind this picture doesn't tell the full story, it's just a snapshot. For instance, Vostrum changed hands no fewer than 5 times to 4 different factions, but because it was eventually taken back by the S.E. you can't tell from the picture.

Sturgia fell first, followed by the Northern Empire a few years later. The western half of Sturgia was slowly conquered by Battania, then the other half quickly fell to Khuzait some time later. The fact that Tyal and Varnovapol still belong to their original owners makes me believe that they defected to Khuzait rather than being conquered.

Aserai currently employs 7 minor faction clans as mercenaries. No other faction in the realm owns any, other than the Northern Empire whom are totally wiped out.

Sanala once again proves it is the clear cut powerhouse of the realm. No other town is within 5000 prosperity of Sanala. Because Sanala has such high prosperity, its prices are greater relative to all other towns. Caravans don't buy much from Sanala when they visit, and tend to head to other high prosperity towns when they leave, because those are the only towns that can offer a profit on the high prices of goods. Most of the grain produced by surrounding villages is consumed by Sanala itself, rather than getting sold to caravans.

The 3 out of 4 of the new Daily Defaults are really powerful, with the boost to loyalty being the only weak one (Fairgrounds). Sanala has 16k prosperity and is still growing by +27 per day. Chaikand has 800+ militia. Many villages have north of 1000 hearths (hearths even continue to grow dispite being raided when 'Irrigation' is active).

Because the 'Housing' daily default is percentage based it compounds over time and higher prosperity towns grow faster than low prosperity towns. Here's an example of what I mean:

I have a feeling this will cause problems down the line. Also, because the Loyalty daily default is so underwhelming compared to the other 3, towns that are "stuck" on Fairgrounds are essentially wasting their bonus. The AI doesn't seem to know how to properly factor this in.

Damnn bruhhh you provided so much info is this you might as well make it its own thread

 

[Bannerman Man]

Damnn bruhhh you provided so much info is this you might as well make it its own thread

Maybe haha. But I don't think a new thread needs to be made every time someone runs one of these tests. There are a lot of people doing this. Better to keep them in as few threads as possible IMO.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Their current only bonus (speed bonus at snow) is nearly nothing.

Hmmmm what if the penalty for snow was much more severe so their bonus gave them a big advantage in defending their lands? They could be very strong in their region, against AI, but not so much elsewhere.

 

[frukox]

I use an autocalc mod which removes cavalry bonus and Bannerlord Tweaks to add about 100 militia to each castle and town. Playing as a bandit hunting and quest-tournament whoring lancer, it's day 150 and Sturgia is still on their feet only having lost the Nevyansk Castle to the Vlandians. Btw, that castle is bound to be taken by either Battanians or Vlandians. A terrible location for them. All factions are still powerful. Aserai only lost the Tubilis Castle. Battania only lost the Uthelaim Castle. Khuzait only lost the Erzenur Castle and that's it. Rhotae is changing hands between Northern, Battanian and Western Empire.

This shows removing the autocalc bonus as well as adding a good cultural one will suffice for the Sturgians.

 

[PeteSKTemplar]

Though I do not like tough position to play for Sturgia but from many games I played I would have even bigger problem to play Western Empire. I consider only Southern safe play, Northern kind of gamble but Western they just always disappear.

I think that prolonging sieges to get some time for faction to help besieged city or castle perhaps even giving bonus to militia growth for every faction they are at war with - so not offensive but defensive bonus could help with slowing down conquering vast territories.

 

[Maximum997]

Mexxico explained above that their equipment in simulations doesn't do anything.

In my expirience they actualy perform better in autoresolve then in manual battles