Day 1 observations

[Full-Tang]

Speaking to the Trainer

One of the first people you speak to is the Trainer, to go beat champions and get into the tournaments.

Once done fighting a given engagement, you come back to town somewhat further away from the trainer facing the other way.

It would be better if when exiting him you are standing in the same spot and direction from which you first entered.

A typo

When speaking with Marnid Rhalers in the starter town, I have a conversation wherein at one point I say (spelled as in game), "My symphaties friend."

Should be sympathies.

You are slightly disadvantaged.

You are wtfpwned!

I realize now that going into combat with something that has a red [12] by it means that there are 12 enemy. We learn by doing.

However, this is not a slight disadvantage, it's a great one.

Also, I'm finding the minimal possible engagement is [4]. I beat those [4] once tonight, the first time out. The battle took nearly 45 minutes. Ever since they are destroying me even though my skills are improving on horse and with weaponry.

Therefore....

I need an army

However, my army is a mob with pitchforks. It included my first time out [2] dudes that got pasted before I could get my horse turned around.

Therefore I spent all my wampum buying jerks that couldn't defend themselves. It takes time for these to grow into good soldiers, but time is against me.

The thought here is that, without sacrificing all my clothes, and the newbie shield, I should be able to mount some kind of reasonable force. Nothing awesome, but at least something that will not get put on trial and hanged before I can get into the fight.

The learning curve, concerning what I should sacrifice in order to survive the first week, or build a force of soldiers, is too high. This should be corrected down somewhat, or the [2] guys should be corrected up somewhat. Give them more power, or make them cheaper.

This may not be feasible, since I don't understand the higher level yet. Perhaps a starting gang of punks with equal skills as are currently in the game, but free.

The best for last...

Slideshow Bob

Often, when changing perspective, or first engaging in close-up combat, I lag out so badly I take several hits before it recovers.

I'm not sure why this happens, but it does seem to occur more often than not when looking towards my rear angle. (behind me)

It does happen when facing the opponent as well. It is also happening when trying to face directly at NPCs, such as the trainer mentioned above, though not always.

Some Pluses

The opening training fights seem to be rather well balanced.

And the combat is diabolically fun, in fact I was discussing recently this style of combat for an MMO design.

The shadows and lighting are nice.

 

[Keemo]

The learning curve, concerning what I should sacrifice in order to survive the first week, or build a force of soldiers, is too high. This should be corrected down somewhat, or the [2] guys should be corrected up somewhat. Give them more power, or make them cheaper.

I disagree with you there. I'm playing the game as hard as it will go (107%) and I find it very easy to get a decent band of fighters going once you get a little momentum. The first 2-4 fights can be very edgy but they should be. I personally don't want to see the game get any easier or if it does atleast make it optional.

I think you will find the game to get easier after some more time.

 

[Tyan]

When your first starting out on your first character you might consider turning the damage to 1/2 or 1/4 and/or reducing the maximum battle size in options to make it a little easier, but after you start learning how to fight more effectively you probably will want to turn these options back up.

 

[Ingolifs]

If you want to get money at the start, sell whatever extras you have ( if you're a hunter or merchant) talk to constable hareck, and go river pirate hunting. At the start, it's best to look for any manhunter/pirate battles. As soon as you have around 700 gold, you can buy yourself a decent sized army to go out river pirate hunting with. Bring a club so you can capture the pirates as prisoners and sell them off at 100 apiece.

When you have a decent sized army, but not too large, indulge in merchant jobs, escorting caravans around. The merchant trips can be dangerous, but more often than not you won't encounter anything nasty, and you will get lots of money for it.

 

[Skyrage]

Not to mention the XP for the merchant quests is quite good too sometimes...

 

[jackx]

Provided you have a horse and a bit of patience, you should be able to take on any amout of river pirates on your own, simply because the AI is that bad when dealing with a mounted player... if you have an extra bit of patience, you can also club them all down, which should help you get money even faster...

As for training an army - unless you're up against something nasty (i.e. Sea Raiders or the like) in melee, grab a strong shield (or practice your blocking skills if you've got HP to spare) and use yourself as a bait... i.e. charge the enemy, and then move back towards your troops... most of the time, the enemies will still be hacking away happily at your shield when your troops rush in from the sides and cut them down with ease...

 

[Circuitbreaker]

Provided you have a horse and a bit of patience, you should be able to take on any amout of river pirates on your own, simply because the AI is that bad when dealing with a mounted player... if you have an extra bit of patience, you can also club them all down, which should help you get money even faster...

Even River Pirates will occasionally block your attacks and if you fumble your attack, your horse can get quite a beating like a hit for 20 damage. So you do need some real skillz. But a mounted character definitely has a huge advantage over enemies on foot and if their numbers are small, River Pirates are quite nice for practicing weapon skills.

Last night I started a new game and although it took some patience being a level 2 character I was able to bludgeon a small group of River Pirates into slavery fighting from horseback using a club I bought in Zendar.

Note that later on Vaegir Deserters are nice targets for low level characters (assuming you have a lance) as they don't have any ranged attack (!!) capabilities.

 

[jackx]

Hm? River pirates are armed with clubs, hatchets and falchions... if you make a ride-by-attack at full speed and try to hit at maximum weapon range, even if they block, you'll have moved past them before they can strike at you...

Of course you only attack when you can do a perfect, unobstructed ride-by on an isolated target with no risk of anyone stepping in your path, hence why I said you needed a lot of patience, because you'll do 95% riding and 5% fighting...

(you could also rush them on foot and cut them up in a matter of seconds, but probably not when you're new player )

Edit: best way to start is making a "salt run" immediately anyways, since you'll be moving before any of the various groups of bandits etc. spawn...

 

[Full-Tang]

All good info! But the fact remains, I had to rely upon your 'outside info' to even get started in the right direction.

Whenever a player must rely upon an outside source, other than the product itself, in order to learn how-to....the learning curve is too high.

I hope you see my point.

Coming to the website to get advice is not a good thing. It requires me to be out of the game, and searching for information elsewhere.

A good developer will notice this and correct it. If the game does not lead you in some fashion to take the proper course of action, then it needs a new addition of content in order to do so, otherwise new players will be dogpiling the boards with 'wtf!' posts.


edit - For example:

When I began the game, I noticed the Trainer. Very good.

I go over to the Trainer, and he trains me how to fight. The concept is simple enough to learn quickly, in the game, and I learn to take down the champions in a matter of 30 minutes or so.

It's right there for me to PLAY as I learn.

This is well balanced, and why I mentioned it.

To the contrary, I now see the constable. He informs me that River Pirates are the way to go to fame and fortune. Excellent!

However, nothing in the game at the constable leads me to make the proper choice in equipment, or in leadership.

The content I speak of resides here. A basic set of choices should be made at this point, and they should be obvious to the new player. In this fashion, the player doesn't take his horse and go get himself killed for the rest of the night.

This places his new product in danger of being uninstalled rather than enjoyed to the next levels.

At the constable, then, a group of 'free' or at least very inexpensive troops will be 'given' to you, with instructions. 'Lead some of my troops into battle with the River Pirates, and you will be rewarded with..' such and such.

A new player is not going to understand by default of installing - the concept of leadership. This is relatively new game play for them, and it just won't occur to them to take these actions.

In my opinion, this is an important point to take into account when discussing content additions before release.

 

[armagan]

Hi Full-Tang,

Thanks a lot for your comments and feedback. I'll take your points into account.

 

[Full-Tang]

My pleasure, arma.

 

[Tarrak]

I must admit that I was overwhelmed too. Even the training seemed hard.
But I even lost all my money on betting, then had to earn more to get me a friend and then I jumped into battle. Obiously I lost my horse and what money I had left. Not that great, and it took a long time to get back on track.

So a few headers in the beginning would be great.

 

[Instag0]

Well, I'll be one of the few to say that the learning curve for the game is perfect, and I like it the way it is- any easier and I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much as I have. Though, a few textual points could be helpful- as long as the underlying difficulty and systems of the game are not changed.

 

[Arathiel]

i remember my first week as well... it was horrific. I assumed that hiring underlings was something that wouldn't be feasable till i had much more money. After all, if it cost two or three thousand just to get a sword, how much must a whole nother person cost? So i didn't even bother asking the tavernkeeper about it, I just went off and was repeatedly pwned by pirates. So I agree it, would be great for newbs if someone was to tell the player

"If you're going out hunting, it might be a good idea to save up a little money from the tournaments, and hire yourself a small party. You can hire peasants for fairly cheap!"

Or something like that.

 

[Full-Tang]

I have not won a single tournament match yet lol.

 

[Keemo]

would be great for newbs if someone was to tell the player

"If you're going out hunting, it might be a good idea to save up a little money from the tournaments, and hire yourself a small party. You can hire peasants for fairly cheap!"

Or something like that.

That I agree with. Rather than having them throw free money and troops your way let the NPC's explain how to survive in the open wilderness to prepare the player better for the new challenges ahead.

 

[armagan]

Yes. I am not planning to make the game easier either. There only needs to be NPCs in Zendar that will give you some more advice (actually very much like the advice given to newbies in this forum)

 

[Tarrak]

It is not that the game is too hard, it is just that you don't know what is going on and thus put yourself in a situation where you get beaten.
That is a tough lesson to learn the hard way.

No need to make the game easier, just a bit more introduction.

 

[Full-Tang]

And there it is.

After this evening I agree, it's 'easy' enough. Challenging, fun, and balanced.

What I did different was start a character, and head out doing some trading.

Once I had the money, I got a new horse (making combat more fun now), and an army of 23 peasants.

After watching most nasty parties retreating from me which I chuckled at, I went made more money.

So far, I've replaced my armor, sword, and shield, replaced the horse twice, and the army twice.

I still have money to burn. Thank God too, I got robbed twice lol.

___________________________________________________________

Arma's right, it needs an introductory lead-in to making the right choices.

After that, all is well in newbie land as far as being beaten constantly. The problem goes away.

 

[DarkAngel]

I don't want to see the game dumbed down, so an easy mode would be nice.

I find the game very easy as it is, against any enemy. (I am not boasting, its a game and this is a forum I know a lot of other players are this way as well.