The NDP in Canada is the official Queen's Opposition against the conservatives here, and they're a party revolving around social democracy/democratic socialism.
So big whoop, wanna fight aboot it?
So big whoop, wanna fight aboot it?
Danish elections - fyi
- 主题发起人 Adorno
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Archonsod 说:
While denying economic freedom and growth and stunting technological progress waves that often come from so called booms. I don't see this doing much to encourage private investment or enhancing product quality control for consumers.
Its basically a great way for a country to get left behind its competitors while doing little to stem corruption.
Socialism has been tried in multiple countries and has failed. Don't see why people whip a dead horse, its not an adequate solution to poor monetary and fiscal policies.
leprechaun
Marquis
To at least some degree, every single European country is socialist. I mean, I know the Eurozone is faltering somewhat but that's not socialism to blame.rejenorst 说:
I agree with you. As for blaming socialism I don't know. Personally I blame the sheer incompetence of the bureaucrats within a heavily centralized system. Many of them happen to be socialist in ideal or have some socialist/communist background but I believe the problem stems a lot from their complete lack of business experience while at the same time they're the ones setting uniform economic policy across the EU.
Which is a bull**** concept in the first place. There's finite resources around here, everything you take is taken from someone else. You can't have freedom via oppression, the two are somewhat contradictory.rejenorst 说:
Such as?
Erm, which part of "nobody would be making profit" did you not get? What precisely are they going to invest, rocks?
Would that be why the predominantly socialist countries such as Sweden regularly get rated higher by the UN in terms of quality of life, social development et al than any of the capitalist ones? Not what I'd call a failure....
The problem in Europe is that it isn't a centralised system. The Eurozone is failing because each individual member is free to set their own economic policies, which tend to conflict and contradict with each other. Hence why France and Germany (and for that matter the markets) are calling for a single centralised financial governance for the whole Eurozone.rejenorst 说:
Note the problem countries - Greece, Spain, Italy. Pray explain when any of those were communist? And as already stated, nobody sets blanket economic policy across the EU, that's the ****ing problem.
Lyze
Baron
Yes. Two things:BadaBoomBadaBang 说:
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[*]No Canadian I have ever heard says "aboot"; only the Americans in their witless attempts to mock us to boost their doubt-racked egos (yes, you joked, I knows).
[*]While the NDP is an admirable party, with Layton dead, turmoil is about, and Harper still has a majority. 39% of those who voted, which were themselves only 60% of eligible voters elected a party to a "majority" holding, a party with the most ultra-right wing views in our political history. Compare the Conservatives with the Nazi Party and you'll find that on the political spectrum, they're frighteningly similar. The NDP may be the Queen's Opposition, but they are powerless to stop Harper from doing whatever he wishes. Never forget this - we will need to fight him, or else he will drive this country to ruin, and leave our children to suffer for it.
[/list]
That is all.
Sir Saladin
Count
Swadius 说:
Rejenorst likes American Republicans. He isn't qualified to judge sanity.
Yeah, I'd like to hear the answer to this. You can enjoy theorising without data all day, but this fact still needs explaining.Archonsod 说:
Maybe you're confusing communism with socialism.rejenorst 说:
The Nordic countries - Norway, Sweden, Denmark - as well as Holland and other countries with a high degree of economic equality have strong economies,
with large welfare systems based on redistribution through high tax rates.
And surprisingly to some they also have low crime rates (low murder rates), and low relative poverty.
The economies that are faltering are based on strict capitalism.
Archonsod 说:
That depends on the type of resource your talking about. If your talking about Raw materials then one way or another their going to be used whether socialism or capitalism.
Your using it to talk to me now. Communications, transportation, portable computers, the Gutenberg press even ffs.
I don't think Denmark is going to go hardcore socialism but ok if we're talking about pure socialism then no. There no one would be able to invest and the country would remain in the stone age.
Economically Sweden had major problems in the 1970' due to over government spending on welfare and subsidies as well as bad labor regulations, increases in taxes and protectionism. In the 1990's it moved more towards free markets with less regulation, a trend that continued in 2006. In fact Sweden has moved in the direction of less interventionism during booms and busts while still moving in the direction of free markets and privatization. It hardly fits the model of socialism you're talking about. In any case it would be the exception and not the rule while its success can be placed more down to its economic policy reforms than its socialist roots.
An interesting note about the Scandinavian model:
http://workforall.net/ScandinavianModel.html
Originally EU member countries signed the SGP, but yes, several large Euro zone countries didn't stick to it, that should have been the first warning that centralization wasn't going to work. The EU is attempting to integrate the economies of multiple countries into a single economy, further more, the SGP penalties were laughable and would have made things worse for any country trying to keep a low deficit though I hear that has apparently been addressed this year. But this will all have zero effect. Your arguing that Europe isn't centralizing enough, I will argue that further centralization won't work because the EU is to detached from the national level to understand what is needed. If you remove the idiotic national Economic monetary and policy makers your just trading them for idiotic policy makers in Brussels.
Apart from that the (ECB) is also privatized entity which sets the benchmark interest rates and is the sole supplier of the Euro. It is independent from the EU which has some major drawbacks.
Your right in that it doesn't set economic policy but it does attempt to influence and pressure countries to follow its direction/guidelines through: Eu trade law, regulations and directives. Not to mention the EMU, SGP, coordination of economic policies through peer pressure and benchmarking as central elements, and economic policy guidelines for member states.
As for socialism or communism in the EU Parliament (not the national governments) have several Socialist vice presidents. And there are inevitably a few members in the parliament who had ties to the Russian communist party.
I just hope that this **** doesn't become the next EU pressy...:
http://www.theparliament.com/latest-news/article/newsarticle/german-mep-wins-nomination-eu-parliament-presidency/
Sir Saladin 说:
I like 1 of them. And since Obama has proven that Democrats and Republicans have pretty much the same policies you can go **** yourself you insane bastard.
Adorno 说:
I am going by the hardcore definition that Archonsod uses which borders communism much more than socialism. The current socialism lite that Sweden has for example is barely socialism at all.
Sir Saladin
Count
There isn't much reason for Democrats to be different then Republicans when Rejenorsts keep rewarding the Republicans and their trickle down economics, steal from the poor and give to the rich agenda by voting for them. *insane bastard Saladin strips off his clothing and runs out into the street while singing YMCA at the top of his lungs*
