Damage transformation ability for armor

[Living_One]

The main reason armor was worn, is because it allowed you to stay alive even if you are hit very hard. You may fell unconscious, but you would stay alive.
So how about idea, that armor should have an extra parameter – an ability to turn any type of damage into a blunt damage. This should be as a percentage of this happening. The better is armor the higher is the chance. So if the final blow is transformed into blunt damage soldier is not dead, and you can heal him later, or make him prisoner.

 

[KnZ]

Great idea, imho. But this is almost useless for players 'cause there is no constant death. And, btw, this should be only significant for the helmet - a good spiked mace's swing in chest would kick out the remans of life from you, and not drop you unconscious.

 

[Nairagorn]

Maybe Armagan will mke it an option, or maybe one of the folks tearing apart the code will come up with a hardcore, one death mode give it 150% difficulty rating.

 

[Living_One]

And, btw, this should be only significant for the helmet - a good spiked mace's swing in chest would kick out the remans of life from you, and not drop you unconscious.

But if, for example, you are hit with sword in a chest? If you have no armor you are dead. If you have armor only your rib is broken, you fell unconscious from pain, but you are alive. So all armor should have this ability. And some nasty spiked weapons might have a negative modifier on this ability.
For example, black plate will have a 80% chance that attack with any weapon will deal blunt damage. But spiked mace will have a –40 modifier. So if the guy in black plate is hit with this mace there would be only a 40% chance that a hit will deliver blunt damage.

Yes this would not affect player very much, but it will affect all other troops. For me it seems very unrealistic that after a fight 50 vs 50 knights there are so many dead. There should be very few dead, and a lot of injured and unconscious, so you can heal your man, and capture many prisoners. Or kill them, if you don`t want to do any slave trading. Or set them free and earn some honor points.

 

[KnZ]

Hmm... Well yes, I must agree with you. I think I need to formulate my opinion more exact. My point is that even blunt damage sometimes (and the stronger the weapon is, the more the chance is) kills. For example, it is quite hard to kill with a club - your enemy will drop unconscious faster than you deal enough damage for him to die of he pain shock. And if you have a good warhammer, enemy's death will be a good and realistic effect of a head strike. So, I'd add one more thing to your suggestion, Living_one: blunt weapons should have a chance of knocking uncoscious too. For example, club has 95%, mace - 85%, and so on. Or, maybe, the chance of dropping dead should depend on the damage dealt... The less damage you deal, the more chance you have to get a prisoner - it seems logical to me. And if the chance of converting damage would be added... It would be a bi-i-i-i-ig step towards realism, imho.
So, I support you, Living_One.

 

[GreenKnight]

If it's made so that blunt damage may kill, then what does that mean for those damned "Capture the nobleman" missions? You can do everything else right, but in the end, whether or not you can accomplish the mission is left to chance? That seems like it'd be very annoying.

 

[KnZ]

If it's made so that blunt damage may kill, then what does that mean for those damned "Capture the nobleman" missions? You can do everything else right, but in the end, whether or not you can accomplish the mission is left to chance? That seems like it'd be very annoying.

And how is it in RL? Remember the game Thief. There was such a weapon called "blackjack" that allowed you to knock out an opponent from behind with a single strike. Making some weapons PURELY for knocking out the opponent would probably balance the situation. But something tells me that without some stealth or sneaking it would be boring, unrealistic and silly.

 

[GreenKnight]

I don't care how it is in real life. As has been stated in a previous post, if I kill a bug in real life, I don't amass points that will eventually let me get smarter. It's a game. If the nobleman missions were removed entirely, then maybe I'd say sure, let there be some chance of death by blunt force trauma. But as it is now, blunt force should remain for incapcitating only.

 

[Living_One]

And how about something like this:
Each weapon has a chance of dealing non-lethal/blunt damage (for example, two-handed axe has a 5% chance, and club has a 95% chance). Every piece of armor has a positive modifier to this chance (for example, leather armor has +10%, plate armor has +50%). So if a two-handed axe hits a guy in plate armor there would be a 55% (5% from axe plus 50% from armor) chance to deliver non-lethal damage, and if a club hits him, than damage will always be non-lethal (95% from club plus 50% from armor = 145% chance of dealing non-lethal damage).

So in "capture nobleman mission" you can give some good armor to nobleman, so some types of weapon will always deal non-lethal damage to him.

 

[Destichado]

THIS IS A GREAT IDEA

carry on.

 

[Balor]

Huh? It's not in already? What a shame .
Anyway, talking physics, when you are being hit with a stick weighting one kilogramm, or a sword that weights about the same, you are hit with the same force.
But, in case of the sword, the pressure is done along the thin age, therefore - it slices into your body.
Armor just distributes the impact, making it more bearable.
Therefore, damage should be calculated by energy of the swing, then modify it by shapness, see it will be able to penetrate the armor, if not - apply blunt damage, based on how small the area receiving the damage is (a hit with a stick and a mace are drastically different, and mail may stop 'sharp' modifier, but will not disturibute the pressure to wider area (therefore, no blunt damage reduction)).
If penetration occured - apply both blunt AND slashing/piercing damage, that is like:
Overall damage = pure impact (blunt damage) + blunt damage * sharpness (both of blade or tip) factor. Blade curvature further improves slashing "bonus".
So, armor should have values that protect against penetration (slashing and piercing), and then impact distribution.
Padded and hard leather armor has decent slash protectoin and impact distribution, but will not protect agaist pointed weapons too well. Very heavy, too. (I mean protection/weight ratio)
Chain armor - excelent slash protection, but poor protectoin from blunt and pierce.
Scale armor - worse then plate, better then chain, but very heavy. Hard to make, too.
Plate armor - best protection against everything. But you cannot put it on fast by yourself, and has to me customly made. (If realistic).

 

[Ilex]

Depends on scale armour if it's better than chain. Scales could be made out of leather (and leather was used).

 

[Balor]

Well, I meant iron scale armor. Scale armor made of leather is not that common, unlike studded leather armor, for instance.

 

[Cleitan]

Slashing through chains is near impossible, It would never penetrate the chains not even with a giant axe. But heack it would hurt, but you couldnt ever be cut through the chains except for pokes and arrows.

 

[GreenKnight]

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not the armor expert here, but in the case of a chainmail hauberk, some padding was typically worn underneath, right? Leather or something? That should provide some help against blunt force, shouldn't it?

 

[KnZ]

Cleitan
Well, that depends on the quality of a chainmail and the sharpness of the axe... I doubt that you've ever tried to make a full-power strike with a sharpened great axe

Balor
What you suggested is just as complex as my previous suggestion about the differentiation between damage types. It has 0 answers and about 60-70 views))) I think it is a good idea about those armor parameters as slash protection and impact distribution, but I don't think that there are much people that would agree with us...
Oh, and btw, don't forget that sometimes armor deflects damage totally. This happens when you try to dodge a strike and you nearly do it, and enemy's strike slides off your armor. This happens mostly with thrust attacks, but slashing strikes sometimes are deflected too.

 

[Mechstra]

Yes, it was, and it wasn't impossible to cut through the rings either. That's typically why a padded jerkin was worn underneath.