Damage/protection conception: the elephant in the room

[five bucks]

Damn, the madlads went and did it huh? Fighting top tiers early on is now properly terrifying. Hits which used to be safe 20s now roll single digits pretty consistently. Lances are essential in navigating these battlefields early on,

Agreed! It's a good feeling. My 50 Legionaries can now fight off 250 Imperial Recruits, where before they could not even handle 150 of them.

and while arrows are still somewhat terrifying, they're not as silly as before

Arrows are still pretty silly - their damage only changed by about 1 hit to kill in most cases. Sometimes it did not even change the hits to kill at all.

Blunt damage was nerfed, but pierce damage was not - it still ignores most armour - and since arrows deal the majority of their damage as pierce damage, with only a small part being blunt damage, this means arrows can still easily slaughter someone from a distance, even if they are wearing armour, in about 4 hits on average.

 

[Madijeis]

Agreed! It's a good feeling. My 50 Legionaries can now fight off 250 Imperial Recruits, where before they could not even handle 150 of them.

Arrows are still pretty silly - their damage only changed by about 1 hit to kill in most cases. Sometimes it did not even change the hits to kill at all.

Blunt damage was nerfed, but pierce damage was not - it still ignores most armour - and since arrows deal the majority of their damage as pierce damage, with only a small part being blunt damage, this means arrows can still easily slaughter someone from a distance, even if they are wearing armour, in about 4 hits on average.

Not sure about that. Haven't fought battania so far, for now I just state the fact that forest bandits are a whole lot less scary. I have yet to experience late game, just started yesterday, I'll be sure to update

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Does it mean you finally managed to get 1.8.0 working on your Win7?

There is no way, after verifying the files a couple of times the same error persists (it seems to be a common bug already reported to Taleworlds by other users with the same problem). That spear test is from another thread, I don't remember which version it was with.

Spawn rate, recruitment cost, wage, upgrade cost and xp gain are not linked with the troop skill level.
Affecting parameters are mainly troop tier/basic or elite type/regular or mounted/mercenary type/bandit type + specific perks.
One easy test would be to set all the skills of a Vlandian recruit to 300 , cost and spawn rate wouldn't be different.

[...]

So, you could have more skillful troops in weapon skills per role/function without any collateral effect by simply modifying one parameter... Okay...

 

[Spinozart1]

There is no way, after verifying the files a couple of times the same error persists (it seems to be a common bug already reported to Taleworlds by other users with the same problem). That spear test is from another thread, I don't remember which version it was with.

So, you could have more skillful troops in weapon skills per role/function without any collateral effect by simply modifying one parameter... Okay...

Looks like yes.

 

[Philozoraptor]

i liked what taleworlds did to archers in the early versions with them not being able to find a target in the dark. if it were up to me, i'd make them shoot in the general direction of the enemy when it's dark. not make them just stand still. this is a good nerf to bows imo.
as to their damage, bows should be able to kill peasants very fast. but heavily armored units shouldn't fall so easily to arrows. so i think it's an armor problem not an archers one.

Thats already kind of the case, accuracy is reduced in the night (its just so high be default in vanilla omn high tier archers that you wont notice).

 

[Philozoraptor]

Thank you for your reply. Hopefully Taleworlds will be able to make the same kind of successful changes to other aspects of the combat system.

Regarding the spear issue, I want to bring back this test I posted here



...and ask you guys a question.

In the video reference thread, I made mention of a significant increase in the polearm skill of that particular troop. My question is (I didn't get to check it in campaign) if by editing that xml parameter, the troop would be affected in terms of money/acquisition value/wage ?

If there are no collateral effects, that tweak + a lowering of the projectile damage produced directly by editing the values of the item itself in the xml; could be an easy and satisfactory solution.

Character level of troop is defined in xmls, actual stats are irelevant when wage / price is calculated, only level matters.

 

[0tto]

Arrows are still pretty silly - their damage only changed by about 1 hit to kill in most cases. Sometimes it did not even change the hits to kill at all.

yup, chest armors have higher values.
shot in arm/leg/abdomen can knock 1-2 shots off that dudes graph.

 

[Bluko88]

There is no way, after verifying the files a couple of times the same error persists (it seems to be a common bug already reported to Taleworlds by other users with the same problem). That spear test is from another thread, I don't remember which version it was with.

Did you try fully un-installing, deleting all game directories/config files, rebooting the computer, and re-installing the game? Verifying doesn't always cut it, sometimes you gotta give it the hard scrub.

After that I'd blame cutscenes or something, but they are all rendered in-game so IDK

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Looks like yes.

Character level of troop is defined in xmls, actual stats are irelevant when wage / price is calculated, only level matters.

Thanks for the info guys.

Did you try fully un-installing, deleting all game directories/config files, rebooting the computer, and re-installing the game? Verifying doesn't always cut it, sometimes you gotta give it the hard scrub.

After that I'd blame cutscenes or something, but they are all rendered in-game so IDK

Thanks for the advice but I am afraid that if I decided to do all that, the error would persist. There are a couple of threads in the support section with the same kind of problem... which clearly comes from Taleworlds side, not from the users rigs.

 

[D0c1]

Thats already kind of the case, accuracy is reduced in the night (its just so high be default in vanilla omn high tier archers that you wont notice).

that's very interesting and good and bad news at the same time...

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Especially @five bucks and the rest of the guys... have you tested the battles with the new hotfix?

As some of you may know, it wasn't until yesterday that I was able to test 1.8.0 in its full extent due to this problem. Well, between yesterday and today I've run a few short tests and I can't really find a significant difference in the damage/protection balance... that difference you were talking about at the beginning.

I have seen that this thread has been opened... I wonder, has there been a step backwards or from the beginning the changes were what is currently implemented in the hotfix? because if so it is far from what I personally would consider minimally acceptable...

 

[five bucks]

Especially @five bucks and the rest of the guys... have you tested the battles with the new hotfix?

As some of you may know, it wasn't until yesterday that I was able to test 1.8.0 in its full extent due to this problem. Well, between yesterday and today I've run a few short tests and I can't really find a significant difference in the damage/protection balance... that difference you were talking about at the beginning.

I have seen that this thread has been opened... I wonder, has there been a step backwards or from the beginning the changes were what is currently implemented in the hotfix? because if so it is far from what I personally would consider minimally acceptable...

I'll run into a bunch of looters and see

 

[five bucks]

Especially @five bucks and the rest of the guys... have you tested the battles with the new hotfix?

As some of you may know, it wasn't until yesterday that I was able to test 1.8.0 in its full extent due to this problem. Well, between yesterday and today I've run a few short tests and I can't really find a significant difference in the damage/protection balance... that difference you were talking about at the beginning.

I have seen that this thread has been opened... I wonder, has there been a step backwards or from the beginning the changes were what is currently implemented in the hotfix? because if so it is far from what I personally would consider minimally acceptable...

Yes, it seems like something has indeed happened with damage. Militia and Mountain Bandits used to barely scratch me in my full mail+good helmet at the release of 1.8 with their sickles and hand axes, now they do 14-32 damage a swing.

Edit: Don't take it as gospel though as I wasn't paying super close attention to the damage I was taking before, other than noticing it was low - so this could be an anomaly.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Yes, it seems like something has indeed happened with damage. Militia and Mountain Bandits used to barely scratch me in my full mail+good helmet at the release of 1.8 with their sickles and hand axes, now they do 14-32 damage a swing.
[...]

Thanks for your time anyway .