Damage in this game is Ridiculous

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Funny thing though, if you look in the xml files a noble bow has a thrust_speed of 135 and a speed_rating of 91. The throwing stone has 102 in both.

Also the stone has no "thrust_damage_type" , that means it will not be considered in their mathematics of weapon dmg. If im right.

Stone thrust_damage is 15 so I think it will always be, never the less what armor you wear
 
Now, granted I normally mod the crap out of Warband and toy with the damage values on a regular basis, but I don't remember native warband being this ridiculous in terms of damage. Most melee weapons are sitting around at f*cking 60 cutting damage with swords, axes, etc, and maces can deal a whopping 50 damage. In Warband you are lucky to get your hands on a weapon that good that's two handed, and armor at least does something in native warband. In bannerlord however? It's expensive garbage that merely drags out your slim healthbar by an meager sliver. Why the hell are so many weapons not only so damaging, but able to deal damage what is supposed to be the toughest armor in the game? I even tried using the dummy max value heavy armor and it still wouldn't protect me from looters throwing rocks, or basic melee strikes from some of the weakest melee units in the game. Why the hell is fodder able to counter elite units like Catpahracts, when the entire purpose of such units is that they are essentially invulnerable to fodder with no armor and wielding one handed weapons with no shields? Arrows likewise are absolutely ridiculous, as are missile weapons in general, to the point that there really is no point to ever get in melee. You will get swarmed by the cheapest and most garbage infantry swiftly and cut down regardless of how "good" your equipment is, and you're basically screwed as soon as you run out of ammo for your missile weapon of choice. Considering this is supposed to coexist with permadeath, the current lethality in bannerlord is ridiculous. And not just for a basic character level, but for gameplay as well. Being able to hack apart even the toughest units or characters with just a couple hits isn't fun, it's goddamn boring. There's no such thing as a lengthy good fight with the bots even on hard, as one of you will go down in just a couple hits despite wearing armor that should render you impregnable to most basic weapons.

Please, for the love of god, either nerf the damage of every weapon in SP into the ground to make fights drag out for an actual length of time instead of these ridiculous anime-esque battles with people wielding lightsabers disguised as arming swords, or at least give us the modding tools (or just module armor soak and armor reduction values to damage) to do it ourselves ASAP. I'm pretty much losing all interest in bannerlord for the time being until something is done, as the combat is just dull compared to Warband.
totally agreed. armor sux in dis game
 
Why the hell is fodder able to counter elite units like Catpahracts, when the entire purpose of such units is that they are essentially invulnerable to fodder with no armor and wielding one handed weapons with no shields? Arrows likewise are absolutely ridiculous, as are missile weapons in general, to the point that there really is no point to ever get in melee. You will get swarmed by the cheapest and most garbage infantry swiftly and cut down regardless of how "good" your equipment is, and you're basically screwed as soon as you run out of ammo for your missile weapon of choice. Considering this is supposed to coexist with permadeath, the current lethality in bannerlord is ridiculous. And not just for a basic character level, but for gameplay as well. Being able to hack apart even the toughest units or characters with just a couple hits isn't fun, it's goddamn boring. There's no such thing as a lengthy good fight with the bots even on hard, as one of you will go down in just a couple hits despite wearing armor that should render you impregnable to most basic weapons.

^^
This is pretty much what killed SP for me.

I can look past the hollow and boring village/town/castle scenes. (They're all pretty much ghost-towns)

I can ignore the one-dimensional quests and vapid lifeless dialogue.

I can even tolerate the lack of kingdom management and monarch options.

Why? Because it's a sandbox game and I can use my imagination to fill in any blanks in the game's setting, atmosphere, or "story".


But I can't use use my imagination to make flawed game mechanics go away.

When the actual gameplay (combat, battles) doesn't function in a proper or fun way, then I lose my desire to play.

Everything mentioned above by @Wyzilla is why the combat in SP feels restrictive and promotes passive gameplay.



@Wyzilla also brought up a great point about trash units being able to go blow for blow with elite units. I've always felt there was too much parity between all the troop types in Bannerlord. Aside from a few top-tier ranged units that stand out simply because they're obscenely broken and OP, there is little to no distinction between the other units in the game's roster -besides appearance/cosmetics. This applies to both different tier troops and different troops for each faction. They're all the same in terms of their functionality and ability.

Not only does this hurt the game's variety and the uniqueness, but as @Wyzilla pointed out, it makes going the extra mile for elite troops moot, because at the end of the day there's not much separating them from mid-tier common units.

Warband had such vibrant flavor because there was a real distinction between low-tier fodder troops and a faction's elite-level units. It felt good to acquire t4 and t5 units because they had the skills and equipment to make themselves actually stand out form the rest of the common rabble. It made the player appreciate these top-tier units because while expensive, they were worth their weight in denars. Having an appropriate and noticeable upward scaling between each troop tier gave the player an incentive to upgrade their army to be the best it could possibly be.

In addition, each faction had distinctly different strengths, weaknesses, and playstyles -which greatly added to the fun of Warband. For example, Nords and Sarranids have very distinct troops with vastly different skillsets from one another. If you tried to play with Sarranid troops the exact same way you used Nord troops, you probably be in for a much more difficult time. These differences added to Warband's fun and gave the game an imaginative unique flavor.
 
so armor was historically upgraded primarily to provide protection from missile weapons so that more destructive two handed melee weapons could be wielded without a shield. I feel like being accurately targeted by archers at a distance which displays them as little more than fuzzy figures and still having a massive chunk of my health disappear despite wearing armor literally worth 100 kings ransoms is ridiculous. missile weapons are at their most effective before the projectile starts to drop after that they very rapidly decline, with crossbows having a steeper decline than bows due to projectile weight and aerodynamics.

my biggest issue with melee damage is how fast everyone else is on their feet. you literally cannot use weapon reach to keep enemies at bay because they move much faster than you do. in my opinion it really sucks beginning the game as a 24 year old infant who doesn't know how to walk and it seems to level up much slower than riding.
 
Drastic battle mod is the way to go, makes things so much better in terms of damage and of course making armor actually mean something along with many in game sliders to change it as you see fit. Best battle mod for BL so far.
 
so armor was historically upgraded primarily to provide protection from missile weapons so that more destructive two handed melee weapons could be wielded without a shield. I feel like being accurately targeted by archers at a distance which displays them as little more than fuzzy figures and still having a massive chunk of my health disappear despite wearing armor literally worth 100 kings ransoms is ridiculous. missile weapons are at their most effective before the projectile starts to drop after that they very rapidly decline, with crossbows having a steeper decline than bows due to projectile weight and aerodynamics.
JOINT HURTBOXES and ARMOR HURTBOXES: an armor system that provide a way to balance factions warfare and make more deep the combat system(suggestions)

The inserted link takes you to a thread of mine that talks about the armor system and how it can be made more realistic and at the same time both improving the gameplay and solving the various balance problems between units, as well as to restore immersion to a game that he should have it but he can't get it.
 
so armor was historically upgraded primarily to provide protection from missile weapons so that more destructive two handed melee weapons could be wielded without a shield. I feel like being accurately targeted by archers at a distance which displays them as little more than fuzzy figures and still having a massive chunk of my health disappear despite wearing armor literally worth 100 kings ransoms is ridiculous. missile weapons are at their most effective before the projectile starts to drop after that they very rapidly decline, with crossbows having a steeper decline than bows due to projectile weight and aerodynamics.

my biggest issue with melee damage is how fast everyone else is on their feet. you literally cannot use weapon reach to keep enemies at bay because they move much faster than you do. in my opinion it really sucks beginning the game as a 24 year old infant who doesn't know how to walk and it seems to level up much slower than riding.
I dislike the feeling of being shot by even low tier ranged at such a distance where they're just specs too. I also feel they always shoot too fast compared to the player, even when I have high skill and noble bow, they some shoot me just as easily with thier crap bow, I suspect they don't have the reticle part of the aiming . With ranged it ether double down on your own ranged units and bully the AI with even more and better ranged, or put up with constant cheap shots from enemy ranged if you use any normal party make up.
 
missile weapons are at their most effective before the projectile starts to drop after that they very rapidly decline, with crossbows having a steeper decline than bows due to projectile weight and aerodynamics.
this is interesting because in game, crossbowmen typically have longer range... just goes to show how far off from reality these ranged projectile calculations have been modeled.
 
this is interesting because in game, crossbowmen typically have longer range... just goes to show how far off from reality these ranged projectile calculations have been modeled.
no cross bows should have a longer range because they have a much higher draw weight. however once friction against the air causes the projectile to drop it falls much quicker than an arrow because it is heavier and less aerodynamic therefore the damage done in the last third or so of the total range will be less for a bolt than it would be for an arrow because an arrow is lighter weight and more aerodynamic. however a crossbow is still an upgrade technologically from a normal bow. in terms of per shot range damage and ease of use there is no comparison. the only area in which the bow is still superior is rate of fire.
 
no cross bows should have a longer range because they have a much higher draw weight. however once friction against the air causes the projectile to drop it falls much quicker than an arrow because it is heavier and less aerodynamic therefore the damage done in the last third or so of the total range will be less for a bolt than it would be for an arrow because an arrow is lighter weight and more aerodynamic. however a crossbow is still an upgrade technologically from a normal bow. in terms of per shot range damage and ease of use there is no comparison. the only area in which the bow is still superior is rate of fire.
crossbows in real life. are not nearly as efficient as actual bows. because they have shorter limbs made of metal and shorter thicker and heavier bolts.

these bolts have more air resistance and weight meaning they will have a faster energy drop off rate.

and these short crossbow limbs that are often made of metal, are not nearly as flexible or efficient in energy transfer as a longbow. let alone a composite bow or recurve bow.

so the result is that your 900 lb windlass (gear crank reload that takes 30 seconds each shot) crossbow will have about the same projectile fps and damage around the 50-100m mark as a 150lb longbow.
however, it will prove to be much much much more deadly within that 50m range. and almost useless outside of 150m.
however, the best crossbow in the game is probably a 200-300 lb pull action reload. meaning it's weaker than that.

the game uses only the draw weight as a factor for range. which means crossbows have longer ranges. but they don't factor in the limb length, material used, bolt shape and size and mechanics involved in launching.
 
T
Bring a mace with you.
Archers were not expected to kill a knight.

MP ruins everything. When you try to make everything equally viable you ruin everything. F*** multiplayer. If anything, multiplayer should have its' own weapon stats completely separate from SP.
+1 singleplayer games have no need for balance between a tier 1 and tier 6 troop.
 
Realistic Battle Mod makes the game way more playable in this regard, more parrying and shield blocking, armour is stronger, horse charges actually do something and high tier units are more powerful 1v1, good times.
 
crossbows in real life. are not nearly as efficient as actual bows. because they have shorter limbs made of metal and shorter thicker and heavier bolts.

these bolts have more air resistance and weight meaning they will have a faster energy drop off rate.

and these short crossbow limbs that are often made of metal, are not nearly as flexible or efficient in energy transfer as a longbow. let alone a composite bow or recurve bow.

so the result is that your 900 lb windlass (gear crank reload that takes 30 seconds each shot) crossbow will have about the same projectile fps and damage around the 50-100m mark as a 150lb longbow.
however, it will prove to be much much much more deadly within that 50m range. and almost useless outside of 150m.
however, the best crossbow in the game is probably a 200-300 lb pull action reload. meaning it's weaker than that.

the game uses only the draw weight as a factor for range. which means crossbows have longer ranges. but they don't factor in the limb length, material used, bolt shape and size and mechanics involved in launching.
The biggest benefit of crossbows is ease of training and use. Bows took years to train with to develop the strength and skill required to use them, crossbows could take days. Hardest part is actually building the crossbows.

In Bannerlord crossbow units should be really cheap. They aren't as efficient or effective as skilled bowmen that have been training for years, but almost anyone can be given a crossbow and trained in their simple use.

Italy made great use of crossbows. Entire companies of pikemen + crossbowmen came to dominate warfare, followed soon by firearms which were also fairly easy to learn how to use. The Swiss were also renowned for it.

M&B games have too few units and a lack of the economics and logistics behind warfare to effectively simulate the differences between fielding a company of bowmen vs a company of crossbowmen. Crossbowmen are cheap and easy to replace, bowmen well good luck replacing them easily and cheaply.
 
I'm no medieval historian but weren't crossbows used as a short-mid range? I often find weird how a crossbow unit can start to shoot before a fian unit.
 
1257 lb (large) composite crossbow (1257lb = 570 kg)
bolt mass 0,32kg
Bolt speed 51,62 m/s
Kinetic energy 426,34 J
Momentum p = 16.5 kg·m/s

bolt mass 0,222 kg
bolt velocity 58,08 m/s
kinetic energy 374,43 J
momentum p = 12.89 kg·m/s

1200 lb composite crossbow (smol, 544kg)

bolt mass 0,0813 kg
bolt velocity 69,3 m/s
kinetic energy 192,8
momentum 5.613 kg·m/s

bolt mass 0,0811 kg
bolt speed 69,85 m/s
kinetic energy 192,82 J
momentum 5,589 kg·m/s

longbow in yewtoob myth debunking video

arrow speed 55 m/s (10 m away, 52m/s 25 m away) possible 57m/s upon release
arrow weight 0,08 kg
kinetic energy 130 J at 57m/s, 123 J, at 10m, 109 J at 25m
momentum
4.56 kg·m/s,
4,4 at 10m
4,16 at 25m

Steel prod 850 lb

weight 0,08 kg
speed 50,9 m/s
kinetic energy 100 J
momentum 4.072 kg·m/s

weight 0,093 kg
speed 49,4 m/s
kinetic energy 111 J
momentum 4.557 kg·m/s

weight 0,159kg
speed 41,5 m/s
kinetic energy 133 J
momentum 6,159 kg·m/s

I havent seen any 1250lb + steel prod crossbow bolts being chronographed.
 
From my experience, the really bull**** shots happen because of speed. Like charging into a group of looters on horseback. It will get you killed. Funnily enough, those rocks are deadly because they deal blunt damage. Besides that, damage in this game seems rather normal. If you're not eating hits while speeding, it doesn't hurt that much.

Getting hit in the face hurts a lot tho. Not sure if it should hurt that much, but it's pretty damning. Enemy's handling also comes into play. When you get hit at the right timing, it will hurt more than when it's at the beginning or end of the swing. Is that damage difference fair? I can't tell, to be honest.
 
From my experience, the really bull**** shots happen because of speed. Like charging into a group of looters on horseback. It will get you killed. Funnily enough, those rocks are deadly because they deal blunt damage. Besides that, damage in this game seems rather normal. If you're not eating hits while speeding, it doesn't hurt that much.

Getting hit in the face hurts a lot tho. Not sure if it should hurt that much, but it's pretty damning. Enemy's handling also comes into play. When you get hit at the right timing, it will hurt more than when it's at the beginning or end of the swing. Is that damage difference fair? I can't tell, to be honest.


look up the previous post, above yours. Rock weight, kinetic energy, momentum can all be easily counted with the device that some folks use to measure arrow, bolt, bullet velocities.

If the developers looked at these things I made, added their own, for others who have different historical reproduction bows, crossbows, ballistae, springalds, whatever. This stuff can be reproduced, effective range. And the game can use it, it can change arrow weights, it can change velocities and it can drop like the real ones much more. All that kinetic energy and stuff is great when deciding on whether it will penetrate what kind of armor however, as in hunting, vs unarmored small target it is warhead that does damage, and excessive force is not required. Somebody has to arm that 'excessive force' otherwise.
 
From my experience, the really bull**** shots happen because of speed. Like charging into a group of looters on horseback. It will get you killed. Funnily enough, those rocks are deadly because they deal blunt damage. Besides that, damage in this game seems rather normal. If you're not eating hits while speeding, it doesn't hurt that much.

Getting hit in the face hurts a lot tho. Not sure if it should hurt that much, but it's pretty damning. Enemy's handling also comes into play. When you get hit at the right timing, it will hurt more than when it's at the beginning or end of the swing. Is that damage difference fair? I can't tell, to be honest.
The REALLY bull**** shots happen when those looters choose to stand there and throw rocks at a charging horse, instead of scattering to get the hell out of the way. These are looters, not disciplined soldiers. And even disciplined soldiers have a tough time keeping their composure, and that's with actual weapons not rocks like a caveman.
 
The REALLY bull**** shots happen when those looters choose to stand there and throw rocks at a charging horse, instead of scattering to get the hell out of the way. These are looters, not disciplined soldiers. And even disciplined soldiers have a tough time keeping their composure, and that's with actual weapons not rocks like a caveman.
That's no longer about damage. That's AI.
 
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