Current state - Realism

[BraveheartA7X]

if it is as realistic as Warbands it will be perfect. 

Some of you people who are asking for these time consuming hyper realistic features seem to be forgetting that we all play RPG because they take things from real life that people enjoy and include them, but exclude the parts of real life that suck.

 

[FBohler]

I agree, Warband's realism is okay, if Bannerlord follows the same path, it'll be good too.

Based on the result of the poll, I will wrap up this matter for good:

The vast majority of the community doesn't require the game to change its level of realism, looks good as it is right now.
If there are some people asking for changes in this regard, they're just the vocal minority, no need to worry.

 

[Crowcorrector]

The vast majority of the community doesn't require the game to change its level of realism, looks good as it is right now.
If there are some people asking for changes in this regard, they're just the vocal minority, no need to worry.

Thanks m8 the devs needed to hear this.

Yo Devs .... crack on as normal, the community doesn't require the game to change its level of realism.

And Armagan, chill out fretting about the vocal minority -> There is "No need to worry" FBohler, 2018

 

[vicwiz007]

If anything id say the group in the competitive scene is the loud one, and what they want is not realistic. Feinting like its a lightsaber, jumping 10 feet in the air, running like usain bolt... the list goes on. When i say this, it is largely because i watched Purzelblume's video of her and the guy playing Bannerlord, and the things they "complained" about made me cringe. I think they went in expecting it to be like the highly competitive matches they love from warband. In case you couldnt tell, i really despise the warband gameplay at high level competition lol so yes im biased against the things that make it the way it is.

Luckily i think TW has taken a more realistic approach, however with still some unrealistic things for fun's sake and im fine with that. Call me crazy, but i think this is partly why Frank is gone. He was the hardcore competitive guy, and theyve taken a different approach to Bannerlord that makes that playstyle obsolete.

Hope im not offending those who like that stuff. I just think it turned a lot of people off from multiplayer.

 

[FBohler]

If anything id say the group in the competitive scene is the loud one, and what they want is not realistic. Feinting like its a lightsaber, jumping 10 feet in the air, running like usain bolt... the list goes on. When i say this, it is largely because i watched Purzelblume's video of her and the guy playing Bannerlord, and the things they "complained" about made me cringe. I think they went in expecting it to be like the highly competitive matches they love from warband. In case you couldnt tell, i really despise the warband gameplay at high level competition lol so yes im biased against the things that make it the way it is.

Luckily i think TW has taken a more realistic approach, however with still some unrealistic things for fun's sake and im fine with that. Call me crazy, but i think this is partly why Frank is gone. He was the hardcore competitive guy, and theyve taken a different approach to Bannerlord that makes that playstyle obsolete.

Hope im not offending those who like that stuff. I just think it turned a lot of people off from multiplayer.

This.

But as for Warband, I don't think it's about 'realism'. They made the best combat out of the very limited resources they had, it was hardly a product of decision making, it was just the best they could deliver. Now they're trying to deliver the best they can, and Bannerlord is looking gorgeous.

 

[vicwiz007]

This.
But as for Warband, I don't think it's about 'realism'. They made the best combat out of the very limited resources they had, it was hardly a product of decision making, it was just the best they could deliver. Now they're trying to deliver the best they can, and Bannerlord is looking gorgeous.

Yes you are probably right. However im not even really sure who this "vocal minority calling for ultra realism" is. I know there are some people who call for the real nitpicky stuff like proper finger methods of using bows... but most of what i see in complaints is about the really cheesy stuff from Warband not being included in Bannerlord, because as you say, they have the means to deliver their best product now.

Most people would agree that the realism level now is perfectly acceptable. Its especially hard to imagine someone who has never seen a mount and blade game, being shown combat of both, say they would prefer Warband's.

 

[Gibby Jr]

If anything id say the group in the competitive scene is the loud one, and what they want is not realistic. Feinting like its a lightsaber, jumping 10 feet in the air, running like usain bolt... the list goes on.

Hope im not offending those who like that stuff. I just think it turned a lot of people off from multiplayer.

The second part you're absolutely right about and I'm glad that TW are thinking of alternatives that appeal to people who were off-put by the mechanics of Warband. The bits you put about running fast and jumping are just hyperbole (I guess), cause I've never seen anyone advocate that; I think most competitive players want distinct differences between classes in terms of speed so that, for instance, archers are slower than infantry but are faster than dismounted cavalry. That's perhaps unrealistic, more lightly armoured archers would be faster than more heavily armoured infantry, but it's something which should exist for the sake of fun over realism (imagine if archers could just keep running away and shooting with no penalty n_n).

I think the issue most people have with the simplifying of feinting is more a worry that it will "ruin" duelling in multiplayer, as in make it too simple. If duelling was just hit-block-hit-block, individuals duels would last 10+ minutes, heck, my longest single duel with the system as it is now was over 7 minutes. If they can come up with mechanics to replace that feinting, fine, as long as the skill-cap isn't sacrificed too far.

That's just for duelling though, feinting isn't used that much in 5v5 or 8v8 battle. In fact, if anything, Bannerlord looks like it will be great for that kind of competitive play, even if duel suffers as a result. We'll have to wait and see, but footage so far demonstrates that things will primarily be the same as in Warband. From the footage of Peter and Purzel, I saw Peter trying to do his usual feints and talking about it not being possible, but I didn't see him try "feinting like its a lightsaber", so that might still be possible - it's just not a viable thing in competitive duel anyway so I don't imagine he thought of trying it.

 

[vicwiz007]

The bits you put about running fast and jumping are just hyperbole (I guess), cause I've never seen anyone advocate that; I think most competitive players want distinct differences between classes in terms of speed so that, for instance, archers are slower than infantry but are faster than dismounted cavalry. That's perhaps unrealistic, more lightly armoured archers would be faster than more heavily armoured infantry, but it's something which should exist for the sake of fun over realism (imagine if archers could just keep running away and shooting with no penalty n_n).

-Yes they were hyperbole, except i actually said those because of criticisms Peter made in that video, where the guy was fully armored and was not running at the pace of all other characters, and was not jumping very high. So i dont know if they speak for the majority of the competitive community, but what they say is actually opposite to how you say you want different troops to have different speeds. Or maybe I misunderstand, but it sounds like they want to be able to jump and run as fast as the falxmen could when he played as him. I think M&B has a beautiful organic balance between troops created just by the way a lot of the physics and real life tactics work. Hard to explain, but for example, a heavy guy with a shield would not need to catch archers fast because he can block until reaching them, and if they want to run they cant shoot while running. Backpedaling while shooting is very bad. It gives the archers a need for support (most of the time) but it feels so organic.

I think the issue most people have with the simplifying of feinting is more a worry that it will "ruin" dueling in multiplayer, as in make it too simple. If dueling was just hit-block-hit-block, individuals duels would last 10+ minutes, heck, my longest single duel with the system as it is now was over 7 minutes. If they can come up with mechanics to replace that feinting, fine, as long as the skill-cap isn't sacrificed too far.

I get that, but the duels just look so silly and have such a high skill gap. Its one of those things that turn people off from MP. Just imagine a new player going in and seeing this for the first time. Anyway, im pretty sure you still can feint, just not like in warband, so its not much different if the tournament just makes the rules naked with 2h sword. Plus, with directional shield blocking, it adds a new level of skill. Ive seen guys get hit head on while using a shield. Not sure if that was a bug or not, but to me it looked like it was because he didnt turn to block.

In fact, if anything, Bannerlord looks like it will be great for that kind of competitive play, even if duel suffers as a result. We'll have to wait and see, but footage so far demonstrates that things will primarily be the same as in Warband.

I can agree to this. You can see them do many of the usual Warband things like jumping and hitting cav, 2h spam, etc. almost all the good ole' M&B shenanigans. I think they even said they will have a matchmaker and everything? With dedicated game modes as well, i see it being very fun. I see myself even getting into it now with big commander battles. And when i say "feint like lightsaber" that is my hyperbole for how fast the feints are lol i think its as if the sword is as light as a lightsaber.

 

[Huggles]

Me personally I have no issue at all with realistic architecture, realistic time to distance traveled, realistic armors, realistic weapons, realistic horse physics, but where I draw the line is when realism affects the core gameplay in a way that makes it less fun and skill based and more rng.

**** like injuries, random tripping, random damage, attacks constantly bouncing off, and sluggish movement really irritates me tbh. I'm also not too big of a fan of pointless realism features that are more of a chore than an immersing thing, like survival game type **** where you have to eat or you starve to death every 30 mins.

 

[FBohler]

Me personally I have no issue at all with realistic architecture, realistic time to distance traveled, realistic armors, realistic weapons, realistic horse physics, but where I draw the line is when realism affects the core gameplay in a way that makes it less fun and skill based and more rng.

**** like injuries, random tripping, random damage, attacks constantly bouncing off, and sluggish movement really irritates me tbh. I'm also not too big of a fan of pointless realism features that are more of a chore than an immersing thing, like survival game type **** where you have to eat or you starve to death every 30 mins.

What's your opinion on dropping two handed weapons instead of just swapping them just because a bardiche strapped on the back is unrealistic?

 

[Huggles]

Me personally I have no issue at all with realistic architecture, realistic time to distance traveled, realistic armors, realistic weapons, realistic horse physics, but where I draw the line is when realism affects the core gameplay in a way that makes it less fun and skill based and more rng.

**** like injuries, random tripping, random damage, attacks constantly bouncing off, and sluggish movement really irritates me tbh. I'm also not too big of a fan of pointless realism features that are more of a chore than an immersing thing, like survival game type **** where you have to eat or you starve to death every 30 mins.

What's your opinion on dropping two handed weapons instead of just swapping them just because a bardiche strapped on the back is unrealistic?

I think that would be a case of gameplay > realism tbh. It wouldn't like destroy combat or anything but it would probably be more annoying than actually improve the experience. But I def don't think you should be able to have multiple 2 handed weapons tho. I think being able to pull multiple polearms and greatswords out of your ass gta style would be too unrealistic for the game.

 

[jamoecw]

the whole you have to drop your weapon thing was talked about over a decade ago when they first built the game, here is one of if not the earliest discussion on it:
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,2497.0.html

important to talk about and figure out if it would help or hurt gameplay. if you take the time you can find the arguments against and what the maker of M&B ended up deciding.

 

[FBohler]

That's the point, there's balance between realism and fun. Some realistic features aren't really needed.

 

[jamoecw]

That's the point, there's balance between realism and fun. Some realistic features aren't really needed.

some are though. basically fans talking about what they want and why is pretty helpful. some people can look at such and will gravitate towards one side of the discussion, some will look through it and wrap their head around the issue at hand. if you think the people working on the game are the first type then shutting down all discussions about such might be helpful, otherwise it probably won't.

 

[Buckeyeback101]

I hope the movement penalty for heavy armor isn't too high. IRL you can run pretty fast with plate armor on and from what I've seen of Bannerlord it slows you down by about half.

IRL:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q-bnM5SuQkI

Bannerlord:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9kcwGFWTxpc
@7:00

Concerning melee fighting, Warband is the best balance of realism, skill, and fun I've seen and I hope they don't change it too drastically.

 

[vicwiz007]

The slow movement is probably more of a balance thing than a realism thing. Trying to make each "unit type" feel unique and give it its own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Buckeyeback101]

The slow movement is probably more of a balance thing than a realism thing. Trying to make each "unit type" feel unique and give it its own strengths and weaknesses.

I get the intention, but if I invest all that money into a suit of plate armor (full plate didn't exist yet, but there were other styles) or fully armored troops, I don't want to take a huge movement penalty. If my troops and I have the most expensive gear, we should have a clear advantage.

 

[vicwiz007]

I get the intention, but if I invest all that money into a suit of plate armor (full plate didn't exist yet, but there were other styles) or fully armored troops, I don't want to take a huge movement penalty. If my troops and I have the most expensive gear, we should have a clear advantage.

It's true, but sadly the way combat works in M&B is not complex enough (at least i dont think so) to make armor work like this. For example, archery is pretty much useless against it in real life but in M&B you cant just have arrows bounce off targets, they almost always do damage. I know this is moreso plate armor but if they were to make armor realistic in these ways it would have some adverse affects on gameplay and balance.

 

[Baltic Marauder]

I get the intention, but if I invest all that money into a suit of plate armor (full plate didn't exist yet, but there were other styles) or fully armored troops, I don't want to take a huge movement penalty. If my troops and I have the most expensive gear, we should have a clear advantage.

It's true, but sadly the way combat works in M&B is not complex enough (at least i dont think so) to make armor work like this. For example, archery is pretty much useless against it in real life but in M&B you cant just have arrows bounce off targets, they almost always do damage. I know this is moreso plate armor but if they were to make armor realistic in these ways it would have some adverse affects on gameplay and balance.

I think taking away the headshot bonus would be a good compromise between realism and gameplay when it comes to archery.

 

[Dest45]

The slow movement is probably more of a balance thing than a realism thing. Trying to make each "unit type" feel unique and give it its own strengths and weaknesses.

I get the intention, but if I invest all that money into a suit of plate armor (full plate didn't exist yet, but there were other styles) or fully armored troops, I don't want to take a huge movement penalty. If my troops and I have the most expensive gear, we should have a clear advantage.

You do even in warband. your advantage is higher damage and tougher armour. I play multiplayer in a tunic, never anything more. I should be slightly faster and thats all it is is a SLIGHT advantage in speed while your gear gives you a severe advantage. But what I like about M&B is that it doesn't matter how much an advantage someone has, a good player can still have a chance against a geared player.

The movement in heavy armour isn't even slow, its just slower.