Current state - Realism

[FBohler]

If you think M&B melee combat is poor, maybe it isn't a game for you.
The 4 direction sword fight may be totally unrealistic and non HEMA, but it surely is a solid gameplay mechanic, and a staple of the series (realism vs fun).
IMO TW shouldn't change their core gameplay mechanic just for realism's sake. The result of the poll supports my opinion.

 

[lolbash]

If you think M&B melee combat is poor, maybe it isn't a game for you.
The 4 direction sword fight may be totally unrealistic and non HEMA, but it surely is a solid gameplay mechanic, and a staple of the series (realism vs fun).
IMO TW shouldn't change their core gameplay mechanic just for realism's sake. The result of the poll supports my opinion.

Can you stop making strawmans now?

No one on the forums here was calling for "realistic gruelling hema" combat at all, If anything, its much more the opposite, as I seen people here calling for blood and gore.

Stop arguing a person that dosent exist.

 

[Bjorn The Broken]

If you think M&B melee combat is poor, maybe it isn't a game for you.
The 4 direction sword fight may be totally unrealistic and non HEMA, but it surely is a solid gameplay mechanic, and a staple of the series (realism vs fun).
IMO TW shouldn't change their core gameplay mechanic just for realism's sake. The result of the poll supports my opinion.

Dear friend, you are judging people too quickly. I started playing warband because of the its combat system which involves timing and distance while in most of the other games you just pressing a button to swing your sword. In the last dev blog, the gif which shows chain attack, the guy get his sword all the way his back for a strike. So imagine what opponent does when you do that in real life, he will kill you with a thrust move.

This is a game which belongs to Taleworld and they can do whatever they want with it. The forum does exist for getting a feedback from community and this is what I am doing as you do.

 

[FBohler]

I'm not judging people, I'm using arguments against ideas that I find not good. I have no problem with the owners of such ideas.
This poll was made to clarify if the game is taking the right direction regarding realism.

Fortunately for me and TW, the vast majority of the community thinks that the game has good balance between realism and fun.

It would be worrying if more than 50% voted on other option. I'm glad TW is doing well with their game, despite some little bits being target of complains.

 

[jamoecw]

i figured the poll was about showing us the crazy hollywood stuff to try and sell the game, instead of showing us the realistic stuff to sell the game. frankly i have no clue how the game will turn out as all of the over the top stuff seems to be things they are playing around with to try and get a handle on it (like footmen being flung like a soccer ball when hit with a horse at a gallop). these guys gave us mount and blade, so i would think they can get the mix pretty close if not on point for release. if they support the modding community like they did in the past then any sort of oversight will most likely get corrected, like when rome total war was released (the first obviously).

 

[Innocent Flower]

@FBohler Your poll is bad. Your op is bad. The more I think about it, the more you should delete it. Clickbait title, simplistic poll, and you've arranged it to support your point of view.

Might have well written. "current state- Politics"
1: everything's fine as it is
2; I want Fascism
3: I want Stalinism

All I read from your posts is "wah wah vocal minority". Well, anyone can cater to simple people, but you're not going to get a masterpiece out of that. What do you expect to be doing with your post? "ok everyone agreed they like things as they are no need for those newfangled and dangerous ideas and interpretations to be discussed."

 

[Lord Brutus]

According to the poll results, you Buttercup, seem to be in the minority, and by a wide margin.

 

[FBohler]

Yes, I should delete anything that's against your personal taste, you're right.

I'll answer with a quote:

it's hard to please everyone when it comes to realism.

To the minority "more real equals better".
To the rest, balance is needed.

Someone is going to get a game that's not perfect to their eyes, better be the minority than the majority.

 

[Lord Brutus]

This seems to be his idea of fun.
"Preparation wise:
-Littering the field with specialised ambushers who hide in trees, grass, bushes, or holes they've dug themselves. 
-Creating a trench/dirt wall/foxhole. All you want is a shovel.
-building and errecting shields, fences, palisades, spikes that you don't want to charge into.
-Deploying barrels and other obstacles for opponents from the inventory. 
-creating strategic fires or oil spills.
-Cutting down a trees for barricades or to remove a barrier for your shooters.
-Using a wagon loaded with goods/prisoners/unfortunate flamables to tactical advantage, either as something to get behind, something to get on, something to fix in position or something to fill with warriors to transport to an advantageous position. A wagon could be the goal of an attack, and I envision glorious thefts and great escapes atop wheels. "

Condense that into:
1.  Send word for any reinforcements.
2.  Prepare for siege.
3.  Deploy skirmishers to patrol the flanks.

 

[FBohler]

That's my point, "more realism = better" isn't a given.

That's a matter of personal taste, and this poll is telling TW that the community wants balance between realism and fun.

The development is in the right way, no need to neither increase nor lower the level of realism, there's good balance.

 

[Lord Brutus]

I believe that was my point as well. 

 

[FBohler]

But they seem to refuse to understand that.
They make it look like the game couldn't be a masterpiece without being ultra-realistic.
This is not true, not by a long shot.

 

[lolbash]

This poll is terrible. You made this poll with a clickbait title and set up the answers obviously so that onle one of them looks sensible.

And them you use that to claim that there are a massive push by people pushing for realistic and boring combat, while yoy only reply to responses from people that simply point out facts wrong about your poll.

Stop actinng like you're in the minority, because you're not.

I have compiled a list of people saying they dont want realism in warband

You see, there is one huge problem here. People want realism. People point out stuff that could be made more realistic. But in the end, it won't work. Why? Because there are tons of other stuff that are NOT realistic. So what you end up with is a small amount of realism that just makes the game worse, because the remaining 90% is not built upon realism.

Take weapons for example. People are demanding realistic weapons, but can one have realistic weapons without realistic armor? No, it doesn't work. And since we cannot have real armor, one should not ask for real weapons either.


Catch my drift?

Dear comrades, game developers! You did a lot of good! There are many reasons to praise you! And many praise you!
Today I will do without any special comments 
But I have a wish - though I doubt that you will do it (now some will grumble at me), but I will say it. Two wishes.
First - can you get rid of Hollywood? Can you remove the swords (axes) from behind your back? I do not know about spears, and swords and axes do not exactly lie behind my back.
Second - in the early video of the siege (and then on other videos), the character makes such a gesture - rotates the weapon over the head, probably summoning the fighters to himself. This is a modern gesture of special forces. Maybe you should replace this gesture? For example - just poke the weapon (or empty hand) over your head from side to side. (for example - left to right)
I have everything for now. Thank you 


Wow, look, even here the two-handed sword hanging on the belt! And it is right 

This was an excellent blog, but as usual someone has an issue with the way the game is being made , 99% of us would not be fans of medieval combat if it wasn't for hollywood movies, there's a reason most medieval warfare fans find real life fencing boring (Or at least I do ) Its the hollywood style of gameplay we want and its exactly what taleworlds is delivering , once it doesn't break immersion and points don't pop up on the screen after every hit, its real enough . Please Devs don't change this feature , I really want some cinematic battles and I bet even those complaining do

Nothing wrong with two-handed swords on the back, this is a videogame and it shouldn't be 100% historically accurate, it's supposed to be fun and to be honest I would really hate to see my greatsword dropped every time I switched to my sidearm. Now I agree with you guys that swords on the back it's a hollywood thing, it's not something that was used historically speaking, not as far as I know, but I think it's important to remember that it's a thin line between realism and gameplay enjoyment.

Also, if my 2H sword it's dropped in the middle of a field in the middle of a battle, would that mean that I need to go and search for it after the battle is done?
Or do I need to buy another 2H sword?
Or it will just automatically appear in my inventory? Cause if that's the case, I don't see a point in the sword being dropped in the first place.

And if I need to buy another one, then I don't see a point in using them at all. Which will mean that 2H lovers like myself would not use 2H weapons which will be a shame and will take a lot of my enjoyment.

Like I said, a thin line.

I have stopped posting a lot in the forums due to the 'new wave' 2017 posters wanting to make bannerlord a totally realistic game, claiming ''poor swordmanship'' on animations yet they have never fought a real enemy in real life, wanting the most bizarre things out of a game that is supposed to be fun and not 100% realistic and as a whole a direction to ''real life''. Can you stop already? You have kingdom come: deliverance if you want a realistic game. Nobody gives 2 actual **** if the weapons are on the back, if the sword upper attack comes from the back.

Also nobody gives 2 craps if you want bannerlord to be realistic and historically true, because its not. The  devs themselves label it as low fantasy, historically true will never happen because its not based in real life but merely inspired of it and you should stop posting outrageous suggestions. If you want to live  a second life in a video game go do HEMA or something, because I have seen suggestions for months that try to make the game absolutely borig, like horse breeding, more weapon slots for some reason like we play skyrim, 'realistic' needs like hunger, 'realistic' animation, realistic that, realistic this. Just be quiet already.

I have stopped posting a lot in the forums due to the 'new wave' 2017 posters wanting to make bannerlord a totally realistic game, claiming ''poor swordmanship'' on animations yet they have never fought a real enemy in real life, wanting the most bizarre things out of a game that is supposed to be fun and not 100% realistic and as a whole a direction to ''real life''. Can you stop already? You have kingdom come: deliverance if you want a realistic game. Nobody gives 2 actual **** if the weapons are on the back, if the sword upper attack comes from the back.

Also nobody gives 2 craps if you want bannerlord to be realistic and historically true, because its not. The  devs themselves label it as low fantasy, historically true will never happen because its not based in real life but merely inspired of it and you should stop posting outrageous suggestions. If you want to live  a second life in a video game go do HEMA or something, because I have seen suggestions for months that try to make the game absolutely borig, like horse breeding, more weapon slots for some reason like we play skyrim, 'realistic' needs like hunger, 'realistic' animation, realistic that, realistic this. Just be quiet already.

Basicly this.

I think sometimes realism and fantasy tread a fine line in game development. For a new Mount and Blade title with the many features it has, including it's highly moddable state, I think will be more than enough to keep both parties happy. If realism is what you want, wait for a mod.The same can be said for Hollywood style.

On a side note, my personal opinion on the matter is that realism is not fun for a video game. It just isn't. Look at kingdom Come deliverance. Looks great but the combat is less satisfying than minecraft.

Let them flesh out the depth and scope of the game and leave nit picking a side , you'll get what you want in a future mod no doubt. 2018 looks to be the year. 

You guys want realism its fine and all but it will ruin the M&B feel we all used to have , which made us fall in love with this game in the first place.
The game is in a good direction. You might think that it will be better to have more realism but it will actually be boring in my opinion.

Kingdom Come Deliverence and Mordhau are all boring games which do not even get close to give me the feeling that M&B gives. Please don't try tell Taleworlds to learn something from them.

And thats just from the first 6 pages of the latest dev blog. Why the hell are you so intent on fighting someone that dosen't exist?

Show me some quotes from tons of actual people pushing for the most realistic combat in warband, ill be waiting

 

[Lord Brutus]

Way to miss the point, dude.  He's only responding to Innocent Flower's complaining about lack of realism.  Flower is the minority.

 

[Innocent Flower]

No, I've always been mixed on what should be more or less realistic. I'm not a simpleton of sweeping generalizations, I want to change details and add nuances. Your misconstrued reactions to field fortifications aside (they would be instantly constructed, you'd have an automatic setting, good UI would make it a very simple exercise, and it'd vary battles considerably.) That itself isn't really something that needs to be "realistic" you could have a very arcadey fortification system and i'd be happier for it.

I hate mods where you take injuries, need to bribe village elders to get troops, take huge penalties from wearing armour (though that isn't realistic, some idiot just thought it'd be) and so on.


But onto the point: I was complaining about how bad the thread's OP was. He "changed" what I was talking about to win an argument. I don't think anyone's "missed the point" there.

 

[DoHope]

When a game is so much fun it becomes immersive, realism is captured.

That being said, a "fun" game is not contradictory to a "realistic" game.
VR games are becoming more life-like but does that mean they are any less enjoyable than let's say... Mount and blade?

But let's not throw ourselves off a cliff and start to think games should be anything other than just games.
We don't need mundane objectives like using the toilet, or paying the water bills for one's house in Calradia.
That is not realism, that's mixing reality with games!

 

[KhergitLancer80]

I also prefer fun over realism but I still dont understand how will placing sword scabbard to belt instead of back will ruin the fun of the game ?
Someone said I dont want to lose my great sword as I swing to my sidearm but I dont understand.
Why would you lose your great sword ? Just place it back to your scabbard then pull your sidearm ?
In the giff Jon takes off his scabbard why is that ?
Do you have to take it off in order to pull your sword ?
Even if it was like that then put the unrealism factor from here,
scabbard would not require discarding in order to pull our sword.

 

[Apocal]

I remember the halcyon days of the late 90s/early 2000s or so, back when the realism arguments in first person shooters centered around crosshairs vs. iron sights. This thread is giving me deja vu.

 

[FBohler]

I also prefer fun over realism but I still dont understand how will placing sword scabbard to belt instead of back will ruin the fun of the game ?

My point is:

Scabbard on the back is immersion breaking only for a tiny part of the community. It's not a community request to remove it, it's a personal wish based on personal preferences. I, for instance, think it's cool even if unrealistic.
If the developer listens to every complaint about each and every tiny detail that makes someone upset, the game will end up being anything but Mount&Blade.

There are some Hollywood-ey features, there are some video-gamey features and there are some realistic features. Deal with it, because the majority thinks the balance is right.

To anyone who wants to take every unrealistic bit away from the game: go ahead and mod it.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

+FBohler

Then it is not about fun-realism balance but it is more about coolness-realism balance.

Did we do a poll about this as well ?

To hell with realism if we are going to sacrifice one bit of fun but I am persanally mixed about sacrificing realism in the name of ''coolness''.
Ha, but if you say they are going to have to redo the pulling sword animations which will consume time and resources I support that arguement.