Hello good people of the Napoleonic Wars community. Im Rhonerin and i have been playing this dlc since release and mount and musket since mm mod (think it whas actually musket madness back then?).
I have played the mod for a very long time but only started playing really serious with regimet and such since MM Waterloo i think when i made the 2e chasseurs back then we had a big clan called Imperial French Army (IFA). In this clan whas amongst many other regiments the 1er and 84e which me and my 2e chasseurs played together with alot and many times i joined their regiment for a fight becouse my own chasseur regiment whas very small. Back then my view of cavalry whas very diffrent from what it is now. Being an infantryman i found the game quite balance but at the same time i always saw the cavalry as free kills and thought this whas becouse they were bad and i whas good.
In MM Prussia i made a new hussar regiment and finally saw the other side of the fight and realised that maybe those cavalrymen was not actually bad at the game its just that my bayonet whas too good. Yet i played alot with the regiment and built up my skill together with the others and we found many ways to kill the infantrymen and now they didnt seem as op anymore. Yet you would still get frustrated when a player that you know is much worse than you on the game could easily beat you easily and ofc we had to live with us and our horses getting shot all the god damn time. Now i disbanded the 4th hussars and stoped playing MM until NW whas released for exact this reason.
Its suppose to be a skill base competitive game but its hard when one of the classes are op compared to the rest. Im not only speaking for hussars here but also for the all the other classes. Now i know that some classes should be a little bit better versus other classes like it whas historically for example hussars are good vs jaegers but the problem with such a system is that you create a rock paper scissor fighting system where you have to be the right class to beat something and all games with a rock paper scissor fighting system sucks. One of the reason WoW have lost so many players is becouse a few classes are op and some classes simply cant beat a diffrent class. You might think this is a good system and that you just have to deploy correct tactics but most of the time you dont have have choice and then you will be raped and you should always have the choice of engaing whatever you want and have chance, maybe you would have a better chance against a diffrent class Now i can agree that there is a little rock paper scissor system but then it must not be to severe like in WoW. For example a hussar has a good chance of killing and rifleman but if the hussar is just a decent player and the riflemen is very good he will kill the cavalryman and not just lose becouse his class hinders him. Same thng should happen if a skilled rifleman fights a decent infantryman in melee and if a skilled hussar faces a decent infantryman he should be able to beat them but noone of this is true and a ****ty infantryman that has played this dlc for one hour can easily kill me who have played warband for 1600 hours if we fight inf vs cav. I cant see how anyone can think this is a good system.
Now you might be saying "But they just balanced infantry by giving them lower range and fixed the up attack" sure fixing the up attack whas great since even from an infantry point of view that attack whas retarded. But with the lower range that just made them better becouse the shorter range signifantly reduced their chance of glance attacking which many other classes do alot still. The shorter weapons makes it much better in a duel becouse if a swordman stays really close to the infantryman it wont really give him that much of an advantage. The shorter range made it feel like a much faster weapon. So all in all it just made it worse which is what drove me over the edge to make this thread.
Now for the simple easy to read part:
Some weaknesses with NW atm:
- Too much damn glance attacks, this affects everyone and have made me die so many times.
- Block bug, you visually block the right direction but you are actually blocking the wrong direction.
- Weird hitboxes for some weapons making you visually hit an enemy but he doesnt actually get hit, think this has todo with that the weaponr range stat is not proportional to the model of the weapon. Nevertheless this is a pain in the ass and must be fixed. I have a perfect golden example of this. If you play as a hussar tell a guy to stand (on foot) roughly at the head of your horse on your right side then try to stab him. Your attacks will go straight through him and do no damage.
- Bayonet being so fast most cav feints dont work anymore becouse you can just spam until the cavalryman runs into the bayonet requiring 0 skill.
- The game leaves great room for so called "infantry noobs" people who are obviously bad at the game and havent played for very long but can still get alot of kills becouse he can shot point blank, shoot horses in point blank and kill the cavalryman while his down, spamm like crazy, spinn like a frisbee and so on. Everyone must have meet a person like this.
Now to futher make my point lets compare the classes:
Infantryman with the bayonet:
- Atm the best melee weapon of the game, it has high damage, incredible speed and good range.
- Has 14 strength (1 hp per strength? and a + to damage per point) 14 agility (not 100% what it does but it can be negative) 3 ironflesh (2hp per ironflesh). The base being 40 i beleive gives the infantry a hp of around 50´+
- Has one of the best ranged weapons in the game
- Has 3 atheletics points which gives him the ability to easily spin stab and spin faint.
- Can quickly change beetween firing mode and stab mode giving him the ability to easily kill people by faking a reload or something similar.
- 3 power strike giving a good increase in damage
Rifleman:
- Very accurate rifle but verys low reload, both things compared with infantry musket.
- Has 14 strength and 14 agility like the infantryman but only 2 ironflesh.
- Has only 1 power strike.
- Has 3 athletics which also gives him the ability to spin and faint alot but harder todo it since you got alot slower weapons. But if he is chased directly behind by a infantryman it will be and endless chase where they will never reach eachother.
- Probably something more unfortunantly i dont play them very much so im not that sure of how they feel.
Lancer:
- Has only 7 stg and 5 agt.
- Has the longest weapon in the game (except for opolchenie pike which is longer).
- Cant block with the lance and since it quite slow compared to many other weapons this can be a severe disadvantage but is still kind of fair enough.
- Has a quite slow quite weak horse but at the same time not that slow but with limited maneuverability.
- Has the sword for backup giving him a chance to save his ass if he needs it.
- has 7 stg and 5 agility but at the sametime 3 ironflesh and 3 powerstrike just like the infantryman.
- Also has just as much polearm skill as the infantryman
Heavy cav (choose to gather the cav with cuirass and without since the difference is quite small):
- Has only 7 stg and 5 agt.
- Has the good damage long range heavy cav sword that is the second best melee weapon in the game and perhaps the best cav weapon.
- Has a horse with good health that can survive getting shot and sometimes survive a stab from a bayonet.
- Has 3 ironflesh and 3 powerstrike just like the infantryman
- Can survive getting shot especially if its one with a cuirass.
- Almost as fast as a hussar but greatly lacking the maneuverability of a hussar.
Dragoons:
- Once again 7 stg and 5 agt
- Has a quite good sword and ofc a ranged weapon. But not allowed to use said ranged weapon on horseback in most linebattles.
- Quite unfair that some dragoons for some factions get too choose between diffrent weapons while some cant. Also the ones that cant choose doesnt have a stat increase or anything.
- Has a decent horse being quite slow quite weak and quite bad maneuverability.
- 3 ironflesh and 3 powerstrike but only 5 riding skill compared to all the other cav that has 6.
Hussars:
- Has quite weak horse but its the fastest and most maneuverable in the game giving them an advantage when fighting in close quarters.
- Has quite weak sword with short range and with a weird hitbox, also seems to have been nerfed last patch even though they didnt get faster.
- And once once again 7 stg and 5 agt
- 160 one handed skill compared to the other cav that has between 130-150.
- 3 ironflesh and 3 powerstrike.
Think thats all.
Ill probably edit and build this out. If you want me to compare another class just post which one.
How i beleive we can fix the issue:
As Quin said its not really the actual stab that is to fast but there is bearly any downtime so you can just spam until the cav runs into you. If you would increase the downtime by maybe only 0.2-0.5 seconds it would give the cav a much better chance to feint the infantry and counterattack when they miss.
Another thing could be to reduce the chance of the horse rearing. This is very annoying and happens to easy. It makes the horse a deathtrap and since the bayonet is soo fast you can bearly do anything to defend yourself and your horse.
The time when you lose your horse and fall of is too long its almost around 3 seconds which is just too long. This will mostly make your own horse a deathtrap when fighting. Also it feels like it also takes sometime before you can attack or block once you do get up. This is just minimal and maybe just 0.4-0.5 seconds but nevertheless annoying.
Also i beleive you cant buff the cavalry since i beleive riflemen are already in a disadvantage is most scenarios. Instead infantry should be nerfed.
I'll probably think of some more but this is what i can think of now.
I have played the mod for a very long time but only started playing really serious with regimet and such since MM Waterloo i think when i made the 2e chasseurs back then we had a big clan called Imperial French Army (IFA). In this clan whas amongst many other regiments the 1er and 84e which me and my 2e chasseurs played together with alot and many times i joined their regiment for a fight becouse my own chasseur regiment whas very small. Back then my view of cavalry whas very diffrent from what it is now. Being an infantryman i found the game quite balance but at the same time i always saw the cavalry as free kills and thought this whas becouse they were bad and i whas good.
In MM Prussia i made a new hussar regiment and finally saw the other side of the fight and realised that maybe those cavalrymen was not actually bad at the game its just that my bayonet whas too good. Yet i played alot with the regiment and built up my skill together with the others and we found many ways to kill the infantrymen and now they didnt seem as op anymore. Yet you would still get frustrated when a player that you know is much worse than you on the game could easily beat you easily and ofc we had to live with us and our horses getting shot all the god damn time. Now i disbanded the 4th hussars and stoped playing MM until NW whas released for exact this reason.
Its suppose to be a skill base competitive game but its hard when one of the classes are op compared to the rest. Im not only speaking for hussars here but also for the all the other classes. Now i know that some classes should be a little bit better versus other classes like it whas historically for example hussars are good vs jaegers but the problem with such a system is that you create a rock paper scissor fighting system where you have to be the right class to beat something and all games with a rock paper scissor fighting system sucks. One of the reason WoW have lost so many players is becouse a few classes are op and some classes simply cant beat a diffrent class. You might think this is a good system and that you just have to deploy correct tactics but most of the time you dont have have choice and then you will be raped and you should always have the choice of engaing whatever you want and have chance, maybe you would have a better chance against a diffrent class Now i can agree that there is a little rock paper scissor system but then it must not be to severe like in WoW. For example a hussar has a good chance of killing and rifleman but if the hussar is just a decent player and the riflemen is very good he will kill the cavalryman and not just lose becouse his class hinders him. Same thng should happen if a skilled rifleman fights a decent infantryman in melee and if a skilled hussar faces a decent infantryman he should be able to beat them but noone of this is true and a ****ty infantryman that has played this dlc for one hour can easily kill me who have played warband for 1600 hours if we fight inf vs cav. I cant see how anyone can think this is a good system.
Now you might be saying "But they just balanced infantry by giving them lower range and fixed the up attack" sure fixing the up attack whas great since even from an infantry point of view that attack whas retarded. But with the lower range that just made them better becouse the shorter range signifantly reduced their chance of glance attacking which many other classes do alot still. The shorter weapons makes it much better in a duel becouse if a swordman stays really close to the infantryman it wont really give him that much of an advantage. The shorter range made it feel like a much faster weapon. So all in all it just made it worse which is what drove me over the edge to make this thread.
Now for the simple easy to read part:
Some weaknesses with NW atm:
- Too much damn glance attacks, this affects everyone and have made me die so many times.
- Block bug, you visually block the right direction but you are actually blocking the wrong direction.
- Weird hitboxes for some weapons making you visually hit an enemy but he doesnt actually get hit, think this has todo with that the weaponr range stat is not proportional to the model of the weapon. Nevertheless this is a pain in the ass and must be fixed. I have a perfect golden example of this. If you play as a hussar tell a guy to stand (on foot) roughly at the head of your horse on your right side then try to stab him. Your attacks will go straight through him and do no damage.
- Bayonet being so fast most cav feints dont work anymore becouse you can just spam until the cavalryman runs into the bayonet requiring 0 skill.
- The game leaves great room for so called "infantry noobs" people who are obviously bad at the game and havent played for very long but can still get alot of kills becouse he can shot point blank, shoot horses in point blank and kill the cavalryman while his down, spamm like crazy, spinn like a frisbee and so on. Everyone must have meet a person like this.
Now to futher make my point lets compare the classes:
Infantryman with the bayonet:
- Atm the best melee weapon of the game, it has high damage, incredible speed and good range.
- Has 14 strength (1 hp per strength? and a + to damage per point) 14 agility (not 100% what it does but it can be negative) 3 ironflesh (2hp per ironflesh). The base being 40 i beleive gives the infantry a hp of around 50´+
- Has one of the best ranged weapons in the game
- Has 3 atheletics points which gives him the ability to easily spin stab and spin faint.
- Can quickly change beetween firing mode and stab mode giving him the ability to easily kill people by faking a reload or something similar.
- 3 power strike giving a good increase in damage
Rifleman:
- Very accurate rifle but verys low reload, both things compared with infantry musket.
- Has 14 strength and 14 agility like the infantryman but only 2 ironflesh.
- Has only 1 power strike.
- Has 3 athletics which also gives him the ability to spin and faint alot but harder todo it since you got alot slower weapons. But if he is chased directly behind by a infantryman it will be and endless chase where they will never reach eachother.
- Probably something more unfortunantly i dont play them very much so im not that sure of how they feel.
Lancer:
- Has only 7 stg and 5 agt.
- Has the longest weapon in the game (except for opolchenie pike which is longer).
- Cant block with the lance and since it quite slow compared to many other weapons this can be a severe disadvantage but is still kind of fair enough.
- Has a quite slow quite weak horse but at the same time not that slow but with limited maneuverability.
- Has the sword for backup giving him a chance to save his ass if he needs it.
- has 7 stg and 5 agility but at the sametime 3 ironflesh and 3 powerstrike just like the infantryman.
- Also has just as much polearm skill as the infantryman
Heavy cav (choose to gather the cav with cuirass and without since the difference is quite small):
- Has only 7 stg and 5 agt.
- Has the good damage long range heavy cav sword that is the second best melee weapon in the game and perhaps the best cav weapon.
- Has a horse with good health that can survive getting shot and sometimes survive a stab from a bayonet.
- Has 3 ironflesh and 3 powerstrike just like the infantryman
- Can survive getting shot especially if its one with a cuirass.
- Almost as fast as a hussar but greatly lacking the maneuverability of a hussar.
Dragoons:
- Once again 7 stg and 5 agt
- Has a quite good sword and ofc a ranged weapon. But not allowed to use said ranged weapon on horseback in most linebattles.
- Quite unfair that some dragoons for some factions get too choose between diffrent weapons while some cant. Also the ones that cant choose doesnt have a stat increase or anything.
- Has a decent horse being quite slow quite weak and quite bad maneuverability.
- 3 ironflesh and 3 powerstrike but only 5 riding skill compared to all the other cav that has 6.
Hussars:
- Has quite weak horse but its the fastest and most maneuverable in the game giving them an advantage when fighting in close quarters.
- Has quite weak sword with short range and with a weird hitbox, also seems to have been nerfed last patch even though they didnt get faster.
- And once once again 7 stg and 5 agt
- 160 one handed skill compared to the other cav that has between 130-150.
- 3 ironflesh and 3 powerstrike.
Think thats all.
Ill probably edit and build this out. If you want me to compare another class just post which one.
How i beleive we can fix the issue:
As Quin said its not really the actual stab that is to fast but there is bearly any downtime so you can just spam until the cav runs into you. If you would increase the downtime by maybe only 0.2-0.5 seconds it would give the cav a much better chance to feint the infantry and counterattack when they miss.
Another thing could be to reduce the chance of the horse rearing. This is very annoying and happens to easy. It makes the horse a deathtrap and since the bayonet is soo fast you can bearly do anything to defend yourself and your horse.
The time when you lose your horse and fall of is too long its almost around 3 seconds which is just too long. This will mostly make your own horse a deathtrap when fighting. Also it feels like it also takes sometime before you can attack or block once you do get up. This is just minimal and maybe just 0.4-0.5 seconds but nevertheless annoying.
Also i beleive you cant buff the cavalry since i beleive riflemen are already in a disadvantage is most scenarios. Instead infantry should be nerfed.
I'll probably think of some more but this is what i can think of now.
