crush through is broken af and should be gone 1.5

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CANTON

Squire
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If you can lift your weapon over your head and bear it down quickly, then it shouldn't crush through. Had TW limited this effect to weapons which were slow and unwieldy it would make sense. In fact, it'd work from both a realism and game design perspective. As it stands, items like the voulge are too fast for their crush-through to be reasonable or fun.
 

JuanNieve

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
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The heavy menavlion has crush through ? Because it is too crazy the damage it produces, it goes beyond the unreal and maybe beyond the blocks. In expert hands it's brutal (a DoF member showed me it this evening XD) and for a noob it's a frenzy spam party. If you want to preserve the damage, in my opinion you should increase the feeling of weight and therefore be less manageable. It's insane...

This is something big like a Heavy menavlion...jessss imagine handling that:

Wow it looks like a pike
 

Footbeard

Sergeant
WBNWVC
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I like the idea but in practicality it makes for some unfun fighting in MP because it's too strong and kindof unpredictable. It could be removed or tweaked but can't stay in the game as it is now, I agree. Some suggestions that could be used separately or in conjunction:

- Crushthrough only accessible when a held attack is prepared
- Crushthrough allowed when there is a large enough momentum/weight difference between attacker and defender
- Crushthrough limited to blunt weapons
- Crushthrough damage capped at 10-15
- Stun removed from crushthrough
- New weapon grip on crushthrough weapons that allow them to crush but increases block delay
- Increase 1h weapon speed (unrelated but do it ffs)
- Disallow crushthrough on weapons beyond a certain length (yes, this is unrealistic but spacing is a chore vs a 10foot pole that doesn't care where I've blocked)
 

Alyss

Grandmaster Knight
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Falx is OP. Can crush through and it's fast as ****

105 speed and 119 dmg. Pretty broken
 
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Beeflip

Recruit
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Crush-through is cool, but I don't think there's room for it in a competitive environment. Their current state, especially with the movement speed of berserker classes, doesn't leave much room for counter-play. It was fine in Warband because anyone who took the sledge hammer was assumed to be trolling and just got hilt spammed to death.
 

Alyss

Grandmaster Knight
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Crush-through is cool, but I don't think there's room for it in a competitive environment. Their current state, especially with the movement speed of berserker classes, doesn't leave much room for counter-play. It was fine in Warband because anyone who took the sledge hammer was assumed to be trolling and just got hilt spammed to death.
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[CL] Octavius

Sergeant
WBNWVC
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Crush-through is cool, but I don't think there's room for it in a competitive environment. Their current state, especially with the movement speed of berserker classes, doesn't leave much room for counter-play. It was fine in Warband because anyone who took the sledge hammer was assumed to be trolling and just got hilt spammed to death.
+1
 

Marquis de Montalban

Sergeant at Arms
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Anyone who tells me that taking a great hammer on Verloren or Sandi was not a viable strat will be considered trolling.


In all seriousness I love the fact that I've become known for using 2h in scrims when i didn't really start doing it until 2018-2019, and rarely took it in official matches with high stakes XD
 

Alyss

Grandmaster Knight
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Anyone who tells me that taking a great hammer on Verloren or Sandi was not a viable strat will be considered trolling.


In all seriousness I love the fact that I've become known for using 2h in scrims when i didn't really start doing it until 2018-2019, and rarely took it in official matches with high stakes XD
You are feared by many by your great hammer corner camping.
 

Marquis de Montalban

Sergeant at Arms
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You are feared by many by your great hammer corner camping.
In all seriousness, and in reply to the general topic of the thread, I definitely take issue with the transition from certain weapons being 'earmarked' to be able to crushthrough, to now any 2h being able to crusthrough so long as the numerical requirements are satisfied. In warband, utilizing a 2h crushthrough weapon was a huge gamble- in addition to the inherent hurdles of taking a 2h against skilled archers etc. in a competitive environment, as mentioned above, it is incredibly easy to punish a great hammer or maul user in a 1v1 fight. Its effectiveness in groupfights is both helped by negating shields, but hindered by its short reach and slow speed. It was always used to the best effect when utilized from ambush- allowing for a free hit so long as the opponent was unready for it (such as coming from behind corners etc.)

I understand the effort to make Bannerlord distinctive from Warband, but my suggestion would be to add specific crushthrough weapons as a perk for the relevant classes- Voulgier may not need a weapon that has crushthrough, but the Wildling can have an optional perk for a maul with stats reflective of balancing concerns- i.e. the maul is slow and/or short, so as to implement an element of risk with a potentially large payoff. I'm not passing judgement on which classes need a crushthrough weapon specifically, but I definitely don't think its necessary for every 2h class to be able to crushthrough with most of their weapons.
 
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In all seriousness, and in reply to the general topic of the thread, I definitely take issue with the transition from certain weapons being 'earmarked' to be able to crushthrough, to now any 2h being able to crusthrough so long as the numerical requirements are satisfied. In warband, utilizing a 2h crushthrough weapon was a huge gamble- in addition to the inherent hurdles of taking a 2h against skilled archers etc. in a competitive environment, as mentioned above, it is incredibly easy to punish a great hammer or maul user in a 1v1 fight. Its effectiveness in groupfights is both helped by negating shields, but hindered by its short reach and slow speed. It was always used to the best effect when utilized from ambush- allowing for a free hit so long as the opponent was unready for it (such as coming from behind corners etc.)

I understand the effort to make Bannerlord distinctive from Warband, but my suggestion would be to add specific crushthrough weapons as a perk for the relevant classes- Voulgier may not need a weapon that has crushthrough, but the Wildling can have an optional perk for a maul with stats reflective of balancing concerns- i.e. the maul is slow and/or short, so as to implement an element of risk with a potentially large payoff. I'm not passing judgement on which classes need a crushthrough weapon specifically, but I definitely don't think its necessary for every 2h class to be able to crushthrough with most of their weapons.
Exactly. Only allow very specific weapons to have the crush through tag and it’s completely fine. You can buff the other shock inf in other ways.
 

Lord Bryggan

Knight
WB
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I like the idea but in practicality it makes for some unfun fighting in MP because it's too strong and kindof unpredictable. It could be removed or tweaked but can't stay in the game as it is now, I agree. Some suggestions that could be used separately or in conjunction:

- Crushthrough only accessible when a held attack is prepared
- Crushthrough allowed when there is a large enough momentum/weight difference between attacker and defender
- Crushthrough limited to blunt weapons
- Crushthrough damage capped at 10-15
- Stun removed from crushthrough
- New weapon grip on crushthrough weapons that allow them to crush but increases block delay
- Increase 1h weapon speed (unrelated but do it ffs)
- Disallow crushthrough on weapons beyond a certain length (yes, this is unrealistic but spacing is a chore vs a 10foot pole that doesn't care where I've blocked)
I've always despised the crush through on long mauls in Warband, especially since it wasn't a real weapon.

If we must have it make the gent hold the attack for a bit. A little punishment for being unaware.

But seriously, it should just take a little damage (like 20%), and shouldn't affect you at all (no stun). We're expecting it, and it hurts, but we're warriors dammit. We don't crumple under a bruised arm