crush through is broken af and should be gone 1.5

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soul_jak

soul_jak

Sergeant at Arms
okay first off love how responsive blocks are now but my god! There is a huge problem with crush through.
Ive been hit up to 95 hp thats ridiculous if anything at max should be 20 hp plus there is just no counter to a crush through. not even a shield stops it. Anything that has no counter should not exist. Why block at all if the damage is as powerful as a normal swing. Why even put an attack that no one can stop its just op. fix this plz.

https://gyazo.com/411a373f0d2600ddf2d6ebe18c29c5bc

possible solutions
remove it.
limit it to just maces and hammers
reduce damage to 20 hp max
make shields invulnerable to crush (maybe stagger kind of like a kick)
 
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Was about to make my own thread about this exact point, and I honestly agree. Crush through only help non-skilled spammers and only encourages menavlion spam and the sort. It is extremely broken and id say it is the major issue with 1.5.0 which is saying alot since it has been an amazing patch so far and is going to bring me back to the game for sure. Another issue ive seen yet again is the issue of the horse bumping you and carrying you long enough for the rider's couched lance to trigger on you, which I believe is a problem that should be looked into if it hasn't been already. Though overall amazing patch, think this is the first good thing ive said to Taleworlds in a while and one of my few comments which wont be deleted, please release this patch mainstream soon, it is too good to keep in the dark for long!
 
I like the idea of shield staggering btw, but this is because I think generally shields are pretty powerful and need a bit of something to discourage "spamming" shield so to speak and just sitting with shield up taking very little shield damage. Perhaps after 5-6 hits with any weapon on a shield you get staggered for a brief moment, with 2handers it can be just easier to get a stagger requiring less damage threshold because of the size and weight of the weapon being swung. I also wouldn't want people necessarily be able to spam attacks either though, maybe a stamina system of some kind that would make your character have to take a break after a certain number of attacks depending on the size/weight of the weapon being used. (Just spitballing here, I mainly play captain mode so I am not as highly skilled in the art of 1 on 1 combat as Skirmish players are.)
 
Just give weapons more damage against shields in melee. Make them break faster instead of always doing indirect balance fixes that ruin other things.

Crush wasn't needed
 
I think the crush through as it is in 1.5 is difficult to counter. Its ridiculous that a heavy two hander (the weight is why it crushes through) is actually almost as fast as a Light one hander.

Two handers need to be slower..
 
sad_jak said:
okay first off love how responsive blocks are now but my god! There is a huge problem with crush through.
Ive been hit up to 95 hp thats ridiculous if anything at max should be 20 hp plus there is just no counter to a crush through. not even a shield stops it. Anything that has no counter should not exist. Why block at all if the damage is as powerful as a normal swing. Why even put an attack that no one can stop its just op. fix this plz.

https://gyazo.com/411a373f0d2600ddf2d6ebe18c29c5bc

possible solutions
remove it.
limit it to just maces and hammers
reduce damage to 20 hp max
make shields invulnerable to crush (maybe stagger kind of like a kick)
Click to expand...

Would you then agree that the kick stun should be decreased? Cause as of right now if you get kicked there's no counter to it. Maybe give it enough of a window to chamber but not to raise shield.
 
I belive limiting crushthrough to certain weapons (maces & mauls) is the way to go, but if Talewords refuses that way then I think it can be solved to an extent by changing the stats of indvidual weapons.Maces and mauls can be simply slowed down, and a lot of the other weapons (menvalion, voulge etc.) are long due a stat change anyways with how ridiculous they were even before crushthrough.
 
I agree on crush through is bad and should be removed. If anything, damage should be reduced because it doesn't make sense that a weapon would keep its full momentum after having to crush through another weapon. Damage should be extremely reduced.
 
A luck based onehit is really bad for a game like this. I'd say, reduce the crush through chance and drastically reduce the damage.
 
I like crush through, but only for very slow weapons. I think it should be limited to the maul and two handed mace and maybe they should be slowed down a bit. There are counters, you can dodge, which isn’t too difficult because they are slow or stay in close as CT doesn’t work unless you hit with the end of the weapon.
 
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If you block something, it should be blocked, simple as. I like it as a SP feature, but for a skill based MP it just doesn't have a place.
 
Naz_Original said:
Would you then agree that the kick stun should be decreased? Cause as of right now if you get kicked there's no counter to it. Maybe give it enough of a window to chamber but not to raise shield.
Click to expand...
Actually I can usually block kick slashes so I’ve never had too much of a problem with them and to me they can be avoided with footwork my beef is if I block an attack it doesn’t matter, it crushes through and I die even when I have the skill to block it, my only hope is to turn down a duel with two handlers or in skirm S key and cheese swing them
 
My suggestions
1. Remove Crush through for infantry weapons completely
2. Decrease shield hitpoints, or increase weapon bonus against shields to make them break faster
3. I think that kicks should be risky but worthy of the risk, don't make a counter to kicking except for the fact that it is slow to initiate, others can expand on this if they want.
 
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