Goyyyio
Sergeant
The servers are off because they are working on it, a beta test had more traffic going than vanilla Bannerlord ever hadVanilla BL enjoyers and PW enjoyers
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cRPG has only a week and already killed Vanilla
- Thread starter Goyyyio
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Sergeant
merrrica
Recruit
Wait, are you basing this off the first week of open beta? They already had like 4 updates and working on a big 5th one currently. Are you also saying Native MP isn't unbalance or Cav isn't OP?
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Goyyyio
Sergeant
Yeah, in mountain blade I personally don't like level ups, but as Mount & Blade goes, I'm 100% down for it. It's fun, it makes you want to play more, you have an actual reason to play.
That's a bit of a reach, and not really a good-faith argument since cRPG1 had similar flaws for years. Given the nature of the concept, the initial imbalance is always going to exist, but the point of Greed & Lagstro--as I interpret it--is that native BL already has this flaw, so if cRPG2 wants to improve their appeal and be a more enjoyable experience then they should strive to create a new player experience that is better than native, not worse as they currently do.
I think the solution is pretty simple, and someone mentioned it already: bump brand new players to a moderate starting level so they can make a build they like to play for any class, and not have to slog through terribly unbalanced fights with classes they don't like. They don't have to be meta or high-end in any way, but you should be able to overcome a gear disadvantage with a skill advantage, and do it as infantry, ranger, or cavalry.
merrrica
Recruit
Just to clarify, they did implement something called 'Skip the Fun' in cRPG for that very reason. You level to 30, but couldn't grind passed that. Not sure what the plans are in cRPG 2 in that regard.
The only bad faith arguments I'm reading are the one's somehow arguing that cRPG open beta is more unbalance than what we have native MP now. Case in point at least in NA is going to the GK TDM server, the only server that is populated.
I wouldn't even go as far as to say that the cRPG new player experience is particularly worse than in native Bannerlord. It's just the same flaw presented in two different ways and affects players of varying skill levels differently, and for different amounts of time.
In cRPG, it's in the form of any new players starting out in the mod being extremely underequipped at the beginning of their character progression, but then eventually being able to reach a point where they are perpetually ~equally equipped or even better equipped than most other medium-long term players, and significantly better equipped compared to new players that try playing the mod.
In native Bannerlord, being extremely underequipped compared to the good player on the battle servers is going to always affect people that join the server after the the first round of a map has already started. For the best players in the server, they'll probably only be forced to play one round as a peasant class in this scenario, as they will probably be able to get just enough gold from kills and assists to be able to afford a better class by the next round, where they will then be equipped to deal damage much easier, and be able to get a larger amount of kills and assists to maintain their high tier class cost. For players that aren't as good on the other hand, they're basically screwed. They are already worse in terms of skill than than the better players on the server, and they will be getting targeted by the better players on the server that are using classes that are far stronger than theirs. The worst players on the server basically just die before they can get enough damage in to get credit for any kills or assists, so they never gain enough gold to get out of the peasant class slump, so they are just stuck in a perpetual state of being fodder for the better players on the server, until the map is over, and the server switches over to a new map and factions, where on the first round of the new map, they will finally be able to play as any class that they want... until they die without getting kills, and then the problem just repeats itself.
So basically, for cRPG, a player of any skill level is going to have an extremely disadvantaged start for the first few hours that they play the mod, and their stat/equipment disadvantage compared to long-time cRPG players will lessen mostly based on the amount of time that they put into the mod.
For native Bannerlord battle, being at a significant equipment disadvantage affects skilled players very little, and only effects them in short, temporary amounts of time (only in scenarios like joining the server late, getting teamkilled, or suffering an unlucky death.) Averagely skilled players have to play with this kind of equipment disadvantage maybe around half the time, as their round to round performance can be quite volatile, resulting in constantly dipping in and out of playing the high tier classes. The worst players (which tend to be new players) pretty much only get to play a high tier class once per map, and then are perpetually stuck playing as very weak peasant classes that get dominated by the strong classes being used by the better players on the server.
Yea, this would definitely lessen the problem. The new player cRPG experience wouldn't be as egregious if they could start playing the mod with a respectable stat distribution and equipment loadout, as well as be able to play the class of their choosing.
Has anyone in this thread actually argued that?
I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread has been saying that cRPG isn't worse than the current state of native Bannerlord. That should be deducible from pretty much everyone in this thread saying that they would rather play cRPG than the current state of native Bannerlord.
You might be getting confused between the times when we are talking about cRPG vs native Bannerlord, and cRPG vs native Warband.
Native Warband didn't really suffer from this problem we are talking about in the same way, because default 1K gold loadouts in native Warband weren't weak. There was obviously still some degree of equipment disparity that would develop as rounds went on in native Warband battle, due to players gaining more gold to buy better equipment with, based on round-to-round performance. But the key differences were that on the first round of every map, everyone started with the same amount of gold, and that default amount of gold was enough to buy a very solid kit with any class. Even as rounds progressed and some players could afford better gear than others, the actual practical difference between the gear was quite small. The usual equipment disparity you would see between players in native Warband battle was nowhere near the equipment disparity you see between low tier and high tier Bannerlord classes. Remember that melee weapon upgrades in Warband basically just came in the form of purchasing weapons that did like +1 or +2 damage per tier. Ranged weapon upgrades basically just traded away firing rate and accuracy for slightly more damage and projectile speed. All infantry and cavalry classes had access to free shields, and could upgrade them to much better versions quite cheaply. Armor upgrades were kind of all over the place, but high end armors were very expensive and almost no one could ever acquire them, and if anyone ever did, and they died with them, they would likely not be able to afford them again for the rest of the set.
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No thats what I'm saying, we have a better chance of cRPG balancing their game than Native. 5 patches in 1 week is more than TW did in a year. Native is more balanced but less fun to play.
And yeah I'm basing it off the first week, ofcourse they'll change things around but feedback still needs to be provided
Thats fair I dont know Mount & Blade as well as Mountain Blade. I like progression, but thats why I prefered Mercenaries to cRPG. You still get progression, but if you pick up someone elses weapon, you can actually hurt people with it. Its not too bad right now, because there are other people in the same situation, but a year down the line, even a month, new players are gonna suffer hard. The leveling alone was enough for me to say no to cRPG in Warband. I was 3 years too late and didnt feel like going through the "get your ass kicked until you git gud" part what I went through in Native.
Basically what Orion and Lagstro said.
Overall I'm hopefully that cRPG becomes the powerhouse it once was, but even better in Bannerlord. Theres always things to improve on.
You still seem to be missing the whole point and you are acting like you've seen a unicorn and you are trying to convince everybody that it looked magnificent. Meanwhile no one is trying to argue against you, that you saw a unicorn and that it looked magnificent.
merrrica
Recruit
You seem to be missing the point, you are arguing about the grind for the lower level. Well I argue that is part of the fun for cRPG. Honestly, I stop caring or reading what the negative Nancys been writing because it seems like your destination will be the same outcome no matter what.
cRPG already implemented a 'skip the fun' for the people that don't want to grind in cRPG 1. Hopefully they bring it to cRPG 2.
Anyways, visit c-rpg.eu and check it out yourself everyone. The grind isn't as bad as they say it is.
Reepacheep
Veteran
Yeah it had a lot of potential but there were some crazy balance issues. It seems like they're working hard on it while the servers are down tho, so I'm hopeful
Considering the only gamemode available right now is Battle, dying early means waiting 3-4 minutes especially with this many players on open maps, and when you get to fight, you'll slap them with a wet fish, not hit the damage threshold for stuns and get one hit in return. I get what you're saying, and I enjoyed cRPG alot (the customization aspect) but this is still an issue that they should try to fix. The "skip the fun" thing might work but it sounds like it has some rough downsides aswell? I dont have enough info to say yes or no to it.
To people looking to play cRPG when it gets back up, start early (although they'll do a server whipe before release) and get a spear. You'll do **** all damage but rearing horses is possible even at very low damage and if you get 4-5 people stabbing at it, you might kill it. Atleast you'll be able to contribute to your team.
The fact you believe cRPG is the perfect module is astonishing. Your subjective opinion on what is considered a long grind or not does not matter to anyone.
Do you believe someone who plays World of Warcraft has the same opinion on what is considered a long grind to someone who plays Diablo Immortal?
People have valid critic about cRPG, your only response is "it doesn't feel long for me".
Hopefully they will, because for many, grinding and having fun is subjective.
I personally have done that and liked the mod a lot, considering how awful the perk system is in native. But playing as a below lvl10 character and having fun is subjective.
merrrica
Recruit
Nice of you to imply that I think cRPG is perfect after 1 week of open beta, but I definitely do not think that lol
Not talking about cRPG in bannerlord strictly, i am including warband in what I am saying. There is a reason people like me stopped playing mercs or cRPG, it's an enormous grind for some of us who don't want to spend 8 hours a day.
Imagine how it is for newer players. Unless there is some kind of matchmaking if cRPG ever gets enough players to stack them against similar players gold and equipment wise, it will be an issue regardless of how much copium you throw at it.
Alkix
Regular
Another solution, since "the grind is fun" and I agree to an extent that the experience of being a peasant can be fun, is that they max the normal level at 20 or something, and then give people the option to "become elite" which allows them to continue leveling but creates a small risk of character death when downed in fights. If the grind is fun and the game needs new peasants it seems like a way to solve some issues.
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