Crosshair Behavior after the Ranged Combat Update #5

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

After the update timings and accuracy mechanics have been changed.
Imo, the current way the crosshair works is way too distracting and the accuracy timings feel artificial. This could be improved.

Suggestion/idea: Having to wait for a shot kinda sucks, but why does it suck? Well, because you see you have to wait for the shot, and is kinda distracting having the crosshair that big and always expanding and contracting. That said I think devs could test the mechanic without having the crosshair showing up when expanding from a certain point/size, maybe having it fading in and fading out (opacity) and only showing when the shot has decent accuracy/the crosshair is smaller.
So, click -- expand crosshair and until it fades out -- delay-- fade in the crosshair when almost fully contracted.

That's it, fade the crosshair in and out, remove/reduce artificial Inaccuracy, keep/reduce the delay (for accuracy) time.
I'm assuming the "delay" or the time to make the crosshair stable only affects accuracy (or vice-versa), hopefully it doesn't change any other value like speed of projectile.

This makes it look less artificial; this way you really have people mastering the timings and accuracy instead of looking for the visual clue; It's less frustrating and distracting; You don't have to reduce the accuracy and have delays some much artificially because you naturally can't aim as well without the crosshair; Fast paced game.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I personally find this addition interesting. The pulling string time/force for a long war bow is much higher than a composite one can have (apply the same for the crossbows). For the rest of the weapons, this concept is much closer to reality... it is not the same to aim and throw a pila as to aim and throw a small javelin.

 

[MRay]

Crosshair circle size changing depending on the accuracy is an established pattern in gaming. Appropriating that to the opacity of the crosshair seems unproductive. New players will interpret that in different ways since they haven't seen that before. But if they played a shooter before, they immediately know what a wide crosshair means.

 

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

Crosshair circle size changing depending on the accuracy is an established pattern in gaming. Appropriating that to the opacity of the crosshair seems unproductive. A new players will interpret that in different ways since they haven't seen that before. But if they played a shooter before, they immediately know what a wide crosshair means.

I understand that it is an established pattern in gaming, but the way I proposed doesn't give room to any more doubt than the current system, imo.

• The crosshair would still be there when the accuracy is there.
• When you don't have as much accuracy it is not.
• When I said "opacity" I mean it as a fade out and fade in, in conjunction with expansion/contraction;
• This could also include minor visual/art changes like
  • Thickness
  • How quick it fades in and out
  • Focus or zoom in effect on the screen...
• It doesn't need to apply to every ranged weapon, only to those that have huge crosshair expansion like long bows and some throwing weapons.
• And, as I said before, this change could allow changes to the current "time for accuracy" system

  • That's it, fade the crosshair in and out, remove/reduce artificial Inaccuracy, keep/reduce the delay (for accuracy) time.

I don't know of any other game that has such distracting crosshair, but I guess that's also because no other game has such "dynamic" delay system.

 

[MRay]

Since you said:

That said I think devs could test the mechanic without having the crosshair showing up when expanding from a certain point/size, maybe having it fading in and fading out (opacity) and only showing when the shot has decent accuracy/the crosshair is smaller.
So, click -- expand crosshair and until it fades out -- delay-- fade in the crosshair when almost fully contracted.

I understood it as making crosshair visible just before it's most accurate since both fading it in when it's "fully contracted" and "decent accuracy/the crosshair is smaller" is not the same/contradicting. Because after some time even though the string is fully drawn, the accuracy goes away.

If it's when "decent accuracy/the crosshair is smaller", that essentially becomes fading the crosshair out when it's not ~%85 accurate. And I think that carries the problem I mentioned above.

If it's when "when almost fully contracted", that is more doable. But that also bring it's own problems since it essentially becomes fading out when the bow is not ready. Even though it sounds good at first, players might want to see the reticle for crosshair placement and tracking a target. Replacing the crosshair with a dot while the the bow is not ready can be a solution to that but that has it's own problems.(harder visibility etc.)

All in all second one is more doable but I don't see it being worth the effort currently.

 

[Akka]

For the record, I disagree with the OP and I find the expanding/contracting crosshair to be intuitive, informative and exactly what I expect.
Having the crosshair disappears/appears would be more confusing and would make people wonder if they do something wrong, while seeing moving reticle is immediately understandable.

Also, I don't see a problem with aiming taking a bit of time. It's pretty much exactly what "aiming" means. It just needs to be adjusted for each weapon (obviously, aiming with a crossbow is much easier than when you need to draw a bow with all your strength).

 

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

@emrozdemir and @Akka Thank for the answers. I really like when developers interact with the rest of the community and present decent arguments in a way we can solve problems and promote further discussion.

 

[MRay]

@emrozdemir and @Akka Thank for the answers. I really like when developers interact with the rest of the community and present decent arguments in a way we can solve problems and promote further discussion.

Since I'm responsible for the UI side of things, I try to communicate with players as much as I can about the UI. I love hearing players' suggestions and discussing them openly. And I agree, promoting discussions is really important.

Keep the suggestions coming

 

[black_bulldog]

I'm gonna have to say that what the OP is proposing would be much more distracting to me and is not intuitive at all. If you use a bow in real life you know that aiming actually takes a few seconds and the crosshairs shrinking is as good a way of simulating that as possible. It's used in just about every first person shooter I can think of, coming up with something different is just going to confuse a majority of players without some kind of tutorial.

 

[Memoefe]

Since I'm responsible for the UI side of things, I try to communicate with players as much as I can about the UI. I love hearing players' suggestions and discussing them openly. And I agree, promoting discussions is really important.

Keep the suggestions coming

For me UI and QoL updates are really game changer. I don't know if topic in the Multiple Loadouts is under your supervision but I would like you to check it out. After months of amazing updates I still feel like this is a crucial feature.

 

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

Look closely how the crosshair behaves in sniper rifles and in general.
You can see frame by frame by pausing and clicking the keys "," and "."
You can see out it fades when he zooms in and the recoil of the weapon my idea was something like this.
Also the color is on point, imo;
It changes dynamically, you can see a slight black line covering the white when the crosshair is contracted, and when it expands on recoil that line disappears while some soft distortion and reduction in thickness and size also occurs. This was exactly what I wanted to say in the first place, and maybe not a change in opacity and a translucent look like it was shown in 2017.
Of course this is possible with a traditional cross design, I don't know if it would be possible with the current design.
Which leads me to another point, could a traditional cross crosshair design also be added, if not with the behaviors I propose, with the intended ones by the devs.
Another request or, should I say, idea, is the addition of a stable crosshair, a more static one, or even a tuned down version of the behavior implemented with the this new update, you know, something like the traditional behavior most shooting game have.

Also, if you go frame by frame in the dev update 5 above, in the seconds 45 or 46 to 47, you can see a cool crooshair effect on the right side, it represents very well what I explained, it's kinda a visual glitch right there but a very good one.

 

[MRay]

I already talked about this.

Even though it sounds good at first, players might want to see the reticle for crosshair placement and tracking a target. Replacing the crosshair with a dot while the the bow is not ready can be a solution to that but that has it's own problems.(harder visibility etc.)

In the video you posted there is still a hard to see dot in the center.

I don't get what you mean with "traditional crosshair" or "the one we currently have".

Also, if you go frame by frame in the dev update 5 above, in the seconds 45 or 46 to 47, you can see a cool crooshair effect on the right side, it represents very well what I explained, it's kinda a visual glitch right there but a very good one.

I can't see what you mean can you go in a little bit more detail?

 

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

I think your are making confusion with the @Terco_Viejo thread. What I'm talking about is the behavior when the crosshair expands, not removing it or putting a dot instead, it doesn't affect tracking, the idea is to make a "slimmer" more "elegant" design and behavior when the crosshair expands.
Traditional crosshair is simply a cross (with the normal fps behavior), "the one we currently have".
In the video of COD you can see how how the cross crosshair behaves when zooming in and also in recoil, in snipers.
In the ranged update video if you go frame by frame you can see what I mean when there is a change from the longbow scene to the ash throwing spear scene; look at the longbow crosshair.

Edit: Taking the @Terco_Viejo suggestion, instead of completely disappearing or a dot, you could have an inverted v crosshair shape like Battlefield has.
You can see the crosshair when the player is running.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

A solution like the Battlefield one would be interesting. An element that is discreet enough to avoid losing tracking (who need it... I would make it invisible IMO) and activated with the key action (LMB) in an elegant way and as less intrusively as possible.

Edit: language barrier

 

[MRay]

@Lusitani 5th Empire So then the only change is the visual of the crosshair. Because we use the same mechanics as COD in M&B, except hiding or fading it out. Crosshair becomes wider when it's inaccurate, while in motion and after shooting an arrow etc.. Changing the visual element of the crosshair is something we didn't talk about before(we talked about fading it out or making it invisible) so that's why I was curious of what you meant by traditional.

I know what you mean with the V shape. Destiny 2 uses it too. There may be something we can do with this design. I'll bring it up internally.

(who need it... I would make it invisible IMO) and activated with the key action in an elegant way and as less intrusively as possible.

A lot of people need it. Binding it to a key makes it obsolete in my opinion and negates the purpose of the icon. It should be visible whenever you don't see the crosshair(while a ranged weapon is equipped). If it's implemented.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

A lot of people need it. Binding it to a key makes it obsolete in my opinion and negates the purpose of the icon. It should be visible whenever you don't see the crosshair(while a ranged weapon is equipped). If it's implemented.

No no, by "activable by key" I meant only and exclusively the fade out effect that you had implemented in 2017. As long as the bow / throwable is not used, the crosshair remains hidden; however, as soon as it is activated with LMB, it appears... But well, we talked about that before.

On the other hand, as I have commented in my previous post, if you could leave visible as "tracking element" a dot or analogous element small enough and at the same time with minimum intrusion on the screen; for me it would be a good middle point. Then when the shooting action is activated with LMB the crosshead would appear (in a more discreet and less intrusive style compared to the current Native's...more in the 2017 line... semi-transparent white)