SP - Player, NPCs & Troops Cross cultural marriage plus matrilineal culture is seriously messing up the game!

[Emax]

With the current state of the game, clans take wives from any culture, then the culture of the wife determines the culture of any children that come along.

For example, a Sturgian clan male takes on an Aserai wife. Now, all of the children born by that wife in the STURGIAN clan will be of ASERAI culture.

Immersion breaking, definitely.

But the real problem, is that within a generation, the clans are all twisted into some weird hodge podge of cultures, who can no longer effectively govern the fiefs in the territory they are supposed to hail from, due to the effect of culture bonuses from the clan leader and governor.

So, the first problem is obviously the randomness of how NPCs hook up. Could a Sturgian take an Aserai bride? Sure why not. But it probably wouldnt be his first choice.

I think cross cultural marriage is an ok thing to have but there needs to be some sort of modifier in the matchmaking system that makes it more of a rare occurrence. Marrying within the same culture should be the rule, not an exception.

And secondly, the matrilineal determination of offsprings culture has got to go. I dont know when or why it was introduced, but I know it wasnt always this way.

If its a bug, its well past time to fix it.

Im at the point where I dont want to start any new games, because once I hit the 20 year or so mark, kingdom management becomes an utter mess, for reasons stated above.

 

[Emperor1997]

With the current state of the game, clans take wives from any culture, then the culture of the wife determines the culture of any children that come along.

For example, a Sturgian clan male takes on an Aserai wife. Now, all of the children born by that wife in the STURGIAN clan will be of ASERAI culture.

Immersion breaking, definitely.

But the real problem, is that within a generation, the clans are all twisted into some weird hodge podge of cultures, who can no longer effectively govern the fiefs in the territory they are supposed to hail from, due to the effect of culture bonuses from the clan leader and governor.

So, the first problem is obviously the randomness of how NPCs hook up. Could a Sturgian take an Aserai bride? Sure why not. But it probably wouldnt be his first choice.

I think cross cultural marriage is an ok thing to have but there needs to be some sort of modifier in the matchmaking system that makes it more of a rare occurrence. Marrying within the same culture should be the rule, not an exception.

And secondly, the matrilineal determination of offsprings culture has got to go. I dont know when or why it was introduced, but I know it wasnt always this way.

If its a bug, its well past time to fix it.

Im at the point where I dont want to start any new games, because once I hit the 20 year or so mark, kingdom management becomes an utter mess, for reasons stated above.

+1

You know you can reload the game, if a intercultural marriage happens, but yes it has to go that only the culture of the mother, determines the culture of the child.

 

[Apocal]

And secondly, the matrilineal determination of offsprings culture has got to go. I dont know when or why it was introduced, but I know it wasnt always this way.

yeah, its a bug

I think cross cultural marriage is an ok thing to have but there needs to be some sort of modifier in the matchmaking system that makes it more of a rare occurrence. Marrying within the same culture should be the rule, not an exception.

part of the thing is that they won't favor rivals and clans within a kingdom are a lot more likely to be rivals than those on the other side of the world

they also wont necessarily seek out cultures close because they are either at war or hate each other

that overrides the other stuff they put in

 

[Emax]

yeah, its a bug

Do we have confirmation that it is a bug, and that it is on TWs radar to get fixed ASAP?

 

[Apocal]

Do we have confirmation that it is a bug, and that it is on TWs radar to get fixed ASAP?

Hey, our team working on this issue and all i can is the fix will be implemented as soon as it's ready.

 

[Tryvenyal]

Children should have the culture of the clanleader of the clan they are born into. AI should favour new clanleader that shares culture with with old clanleaders.

 

[Antaeus]

I'm not concerned about the emersion parts of this. Cultures change over time. It happens.

But what I'm seeing increasingly is that the combination of matrilineal cultural assignment, and daughters leaving clans, leads over the long term, to culture swaps.

Children of own culture only stay in culture if they're boys, who then marry outside culture and have outside culture kids.

Daughters are the real keepers of culture, because they pass it on. But daughters leave, and take the culture with them. This would be fine if there was some other way to keep culture alive. But this is it.

So either clans should designate the culture of children, or males should pass on the culture. I'm sure both are doable from a code perspective.

 

[Emperor1997]

I'm not concerned about the emersion parts of this. Cultures change over time. It happens.

But what I'm seeing increasingly is that the combination of matrilineal cultural assignment, and daughters leaving clans, leads over the long term, to culture swaps.

Children of own culture only stay in culture if they're boys, who then marry outside culture and have outside culture kids.

Daughters are the real keepers of culture, because they pass it on. But daughters leave, and take the culture with them. This would be fine if there was some other way to keep culture alive. But this is it.

So either clans should designate the culture of children, or males should pass on the culture. I'm sure both are doable from a code perspective.

You know that you can marry your sons to females of their culture until they have fixed it, because it is clearly a bug, you have only to look at the message log when a male child is born, he will have a name from his father's culture, but is currently from his mother's culture.

 

[Helerek]

Children should have the culture of the clanleader of the clan they are born into. AI should favour new clanleader that shares culture with with old clanleaders.

This. Or only allow clan head to be person that has same culture as the kingdom they serve in. So if halg Sturgia half Aserai clan gets kicked from sturgia to Aserai. They clan head (after previous one dies) should be Aserai preference. In short it should prioritize culture of current kingdom.

Children should have the culture of the clanleader of the clan they are born into. AI should favour new clanleader that shares culture with with old clanleaders.

I believe it should be a math solution of sort. Mother culture + Father Culture + Clan Culture. So if clan + mother = Battania => son is Battanian. Now clan culture would be determined by clan head culture, which should always be same as it's kingdom (unless they deflect).

Daughters are the real keepers of culture, because they pass it on. But daughters leave, and take the culture with them. This would be fine if there was some other way to keep culture alive. But this is it.

Pretty much this.

 

[Antaeus]

To be clear, I don't mind culture or clans changing over time.

Most powerful British families of the early modern period had French ancestry. Things change over time.

But the issue is that at the moment, the system is functioning in a way that will over 2-3 generations attrit one's own culture down to nothing, while your neighbours will take on your culture. Again, I don't care about this from a culture perspective. They change. It happens. But in this situation, because of the math, all cultures will eventually be eliminated by the empire - which has more daughters - even without conquest..

if I was to guess at the ideal situation, there should be a % chance in play. Clan leader should assign clan culture. And as a consequence, clan culture should define child culture, but with an added modifier:

The modifier in there should be that there should be a % chance of children taking on kingdom culture, so if clans change sides, at some point in the future, as they have new children, naturalise within their new kingdom.

That way, if a Battanian child marries into a Kuzait family, in a generation their children have become naturalised Kuzaits. And conversely, if a Kuzait clan joins Battania, in a generation or two, their children have taken on Battanian culture, but keep their historic Kuzait connection through name.

 

[Helerek]

The modifier in there should be that there should be a % chance of children taking on kingdom culture, so if clans change sides, at some point in the future, as they have new children, naturalise within their new kingdom.

I disagree. Culture is more about what your parents teach you. If your clan is battanian/kingdom battanian/you fight for battanians. How can you suddenly now all lore and culture of Empire? Maybe we should be presented as parents with choice to teach our children with father/mother culture before they turn 18 and pick one culture at the age of 3 or 16. However AI should always pick the culture of their clan. This would allow to some sort of balance.

 

[Antaeus]

I disagree. Culture is more about what your parents teach you. If your clan is battanian/kingdom battanian/you fight for battanians. How can you suddenly now all lore and culture of Empire? Maybe we should be presented as parents with choice to teach our children with father/mother culture before they turn 18 and pick one culture at the age of 3 or 16. However AI should always pick the culture of their clan. This would allow to some sort of balance.

That's just not how cultural change amongst nobility works.

My family name is French. My parents speak French, but I do not speak much. I am Australian. My parents chose to raise me with English as my primary language so as for it to be easier for me to interact with my friends and colleagues. You see that amongst British or Gaulish nobility in the Roman Empire, their houses start looking like Roman villas with mosaic floors and central heating within a few short years of the Roman takeover, some even before this as the Roman concept of power overflowed the empire. Over time some will lose their language and will dress in local fashions and most will eventually only retain residual connections to former homelands. You see the same amongst Norman lords in Britain after about 1450 when they lose their French lands - they start speaking English and becoming indistinguishable from the local population, to the point where their French connections are only residual, and gone entirely 2 generations later.

If your clan is Battanian, and it moves into the Empire, it would in reality, be surrounded and influenced by the culture of the Empire, more importantly, the Imperial system of court influence would mean that in order for that once Battanian clan to function within the Empire, over time it would take on more and more aspects of Imperial culture and function. The lords would dress as others at court do, they would speak the language of the court, and bring up their children to be indistinguishable from other court children.

This is why I suggest clan should be the main identifier of culture, but that kingdom culture should also have influence over time. And the system I suggested might be able to do this without major changes to code, which are likely out of the question at this point.