Creating your own unique troops for clans

[AndrewArt]

First they could make it so it's possible to get minor clans troops, like giving those clans a hideout on the map which refills with troops (and NPCs should they die in battle) in a limited way (to keep them as elite bonus troops). If the player has good enough relations, with the clan they could go their to hire those troops.

Then a similar feature could be introduced for the player : Build your own "hideout" (like in Viking Conquest i think) where you would be able to hire your own designed troops with a three tier system (like for other minor clans). I think having a whole player made culture (which is like 18 different troops) in vanilla would be too far fetched and also cumbersome (18 troops to design individually ...)

Building the hideout and creating/updating the personal troop tree should bear a significant cost (in the 100k range for each) and you would need to provide 1 unit of each armor/weapon you intend to use for your troops (so you can't give them warlord armor if you can't afford warlord armor yourself). Each tier would only be able to use a limited budget as suggested before.

definitely agree with the hideout. A hideout is another feature I highly desire, it would be a great money sink with lots of upgrades, and a bridge between the early/mid game and the late game where you're getting castles. Would also make use of the engineering skill early, which I think is a great idea.

They have got to add build your own hideout ect. The game is not designed for those who want to have a non vasal type campaign, that is disappointing.

yes I really don't enjoy playing as a vassal that much honestly. Just want to do my own thing and shape the world by starting from scratch and creating something awesome.

And what if the troops we can customize are limited by their respective stuff?
Say, a city that was conquered in Kuwait territory can only troops with gear that belongs to that culture.
That way we can have customization of troops, and they still keep their cultural aspect


But I can't see why it would be a bad thing to have that option. I can't see how it breaks the little immersion there is in the game at the moment.
The only difference in the cultures in the game are the troops. There is no religion, languages or other differences than that.
Almost every faction already feels the same. Just that we are stuck with how they look or offer.

yes this is an awesome idea. The customized armor should indeed be culture-specific, now this is an amazing addition for immersion and replayability! If I want to make a clan with troops wearing battanian equipment then I need to choose battania culture for that. Makes total sense

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

You not caring about the implications and calling it “nonsense” are two different things. this was the approach you then took with your second statement (not caring about the implications)

This is what we call a “bad faith” argument. You might as well be kicking and screaming on the floor saying “but I WANT it”, because any angle different from yours can’t make sense in your mind.

I don't think you elaborated on what the minor faction troops are meant to be, if not things that float in and outside the cultural bubbles of the game's main cultures. The Skolderbrotva and Jawwal in particular.

You failed to address my points and just resorted to an argument from fallacy instead. But you have made different points in other replies, so lets look at those.

Now there is a expectation by many of the “but I WANT it” players to be able to control all the cultures, personalities, and preferences of everything around you. This is far less immersive, and in the end, devalues the experience of the constructed game world.

The argument that the game shouldn’t be balanced is also lacking. Options exist if similar equity in outcome exists. If there is not a similar overall affect equal to planning and effort, thus less viability in many choices, then there really isn’t a full range of choices and approaches. There’s a singular “right” choice and a myriad of terrible choices. This again de-values the experience.

The current system of “pay based on tier” puts a rather limiting amount of flexibility on the troop choices. The fact this game is built around gathering troops of different cultures found in different areas of the map should also not be disregarded. What you’re asking for actually limits play variety versus excels it as a player’s army will look the same no matter what section of the map they choose to explore instead being influenced by those pre-built cultures.

Custom troops should 100% be left to mods, as mods and modders have never cared to attempt balanced equity of action, and this game will be better served if the base game has a grounded “risk vs reward” system designed at its core

No one is asking for the ability transform everything within the game world at a whim, they just want to have their own personalised troops. Presuming the appropriate limits are put in, you aren't making anything any less immersive.

The game itself is far from balanced. Archers dominate, glaive weapons are OP, blacksmithing is the only way to get denars, noble troops can be easy to farm and retreating is still borked. Not saying that these are good, but potentially unbalanced custom troops will be the result of the game itself, not the idea.

And who says you cannot make something balanced out of custom troops? I found the way PoP handled their custom knight orders to be reasonable. They require significant investment in order to make them worthwhile, and more often than not you're better off using existing troops unless you liked your own custom goons that badly. They required a castle, and costed high tier troops. The result is they're a fun money sink, and can only grow overpowered at an extreme end game. But unless you can make them strong enough, they can become a complete waste of money. They're a form of risk vs reward in of themselves.

As for other thoughts, I personally don't think gear should be culturally limited. You'll quickly find that gear is all over the place in that regard. And sometimes you want to get a certain look, which would be impossible if you could only make things from a specific category. And the minor factions themselves break this rule anyway, so that sort of limitation is pointless.

Personally, I think maybe it should require a fief, a proper trainer, a lot of resources and should be gated it behind a leadership perk.

 

[CrazyElf]

It can be done right now with XML files, but that is it.

Has anyone played Fallen Enchantress Legendary Heroes? I'd love to see something similar in Bannerlord.

 

[stevehoos]

One modder who designed the custom troop trees that many mods use has already said he is going to make one for Bannerlord. That won't happen for awhile after release though from what I gather.

 

[Darkath]

It can be done right now with XML files, but that is it.

Has anyone played Fallen Enchantress Legendary Heroes? I'd love to see something similar in Bannerlord.

this game is horrible to be honest, better to forget it.

 

[RectalRanger]

Earth Dragon you are 100% correct, but I still think you are wrong to out right dismiss the idea in its entirety. I think being able to have a single clan troop tree would go a long ways for immersion. I don't think it should be limited to just the player and minor factions either. If every clan had it's one unique unit it would add a lot more personality to what currently is a rather dull world. Even as far as recruitment goes, they could show up at random at any settlement you own (trying to work within the confines of systems already in game). You still be required to travel the world. I don't know just quick spit balling.

 

[Mad Vader]

Custom troops are an awesome feature. And so is any feature that allows the player to customize and personalize his experience, like custom NPCs (children) or settlements or indeed banners.
In PoP we avoided any cultural issues by making them a knightly order founded, equipped and trained by the player and his companions.
The only design problem is balancing - you don't want the custom troops to become OP too soon, but in the end game, so you need to time the equipment and skill upgrades.
If Taleworlds was paying attention to popular mod features, they would have been part of the Bannerlord design already. But they don't seem interested in or capable of making a good game.

 

[hieronymos2]

This is by far one of the top 3 mechanics of POP mod and one of the main reasons why is my favourite.

True. And also my favorite. But check out the Freelancer sub-mod included in later versions of the Floris mod: configurable troop types that can be outfitted from a short list of available weapons & armor. Add Morgh's unit/item editor into the mix...and the sky's the limit.

 

[hieronymos2]

The only difference in the cultures in the game are the troops. There is no religion, languages or other differences than that.

Julius Caesar won his first field battle (in W. Turkey near modern day Smyrna) leading ethnic Greek militiamen "outfitted in the Roman fashion", with gladius, pilii, etc.

 

[AndrewArt]

I don't think you elaborated on what the minor faction troops are meant to be, if not things that float in and outside the cultural bubbles of the game's main cultures. The Skolderbrotva and Jawwal in particular.

You failed to address my points and just resorted to an argument from fallacy instead. But you have made different points in other replies, so lets look at those.


No one is asking for the ability transform everything within the game world at a whim, they just want to have their own personalised troops. Presuming the appropriate limits are put in, you aren't making anything any less immersive.

The game itself is far from balanced. Archers dominate, glaive weapons are OP, blacksmithing is the only way to get denars, noble troops can be easy to farm and retreating is still borked. Not saying that these are good, but potentially unbalanced custom troops will be the result of the game itself, not the idea.

And who says you cannot make something balanced out of custom troops? I found the way PoP handled their custom knight orders to be reasonable. They require significant investment in order to make them worthwhile, and more often than not you're better off using existing troops unless you liked your own custom goons that badly. They required a castle, and costed high tier troops. The result is they're a fun money sink, and can only grow overpowered at an extreme end game. But unless you can make them strong enough, they can become a complete waste of money. They're a form of risk vs reward in of themselves.

As for other thoughts, I personally don't think gear should be culturally limited. You'll quickly find that gear is all over the place in that regard. And sometimes you want to get a certain look, which would be impossible if you could only make things from a specific category. And the minor factions themselves break this rule anyway, so that sort of limitation is pointless.

Personally, I think maybe it should require a fief, a proper trainer, a lot of resources and should be gated it behind a leadership perk.

oo, good idea with the leadership perk too honestly, it does make sense. That would make the leadership skill a little too necessary I think though, since such a big feature is tied in to it, so I'm not sure how to feel about it because it would limit the choices the player has for building his character. And yes it's hard to say if the gear should be culturally limited or not... I think for the AI it would sort of make sense... but kinda limiting for the player and his creativity, for sure. So yeah, maybe not a good idea

 

[cyresdog]

oo, good idea with the leadership perk too honestly, it does make sense. That would make the leadership skill a little too necessary I think though, since such a big feature is tied in to it, so I'm not sure how to feel about it because it would limit the choices the player has for building his character. And yes it's hard to say if the gear should be culturally limited or not... I think for the AI it would sort of make sense... but kinda limiting for the player and his creativity, for sure. So yeah, maybe not a good idea

As I posted in another thread about the same topic.
I think the best solution are yet again companions.
The better the companion is in a certain skill the better he trains your troops. Up to a max of maybe +10% of what normal culture units are. That way it makes sense to grind a good companion without being extremely overpowered in the end.

A companion with good one handed skill can train your units for exactly that.
A good bow skill on your companion will train your archers. And so on.
Maybe go further than that, higher trading skill equals more funds per units for gear.
Etc.

And just so that you can afford that many companions, or to handle it, is take them off from caravans or give the option to take a regular Caravan Master for your caravans who is a little worse at leading a caravan instead of a companion.

 

[Earth Dragon]

Earth Dragon you are 100% correct, but I still think you are wrong to out right dismiss the idea in its entirety. I think being able to have a single clan troop tree would go a long ways for immersion. I don't think it should be limited to just the player and minor factions either. If every clan had it's one unique unit it would add a lot more personality to what currently is a rather dull world. Even as far as recruitment goes, they could show up at random at any settlement you own (trying to work within the confines of systems already in game). You still be required to travel the world. I don't know just quick spit balling.

So, admittedly, I may be applying old arguments in general of people demanding that they be able to construct an entire troop tree, which would do every I said: devalue where you are on the map, destroy any point of hiring other troops to supplement your forces like all cultures need, and become reduced to whatever the dominate troops are.

Anyone saying “But xxxxxxx is unbalanced now, so it doesn’t matter” is completely missing the point of EA. These are all the things TW is trying to iron out. This is easier to do with set troops then an infinite variable that the player will create.

If we’re talking about a flavorful Tier 2-4 (5?) special troop that only spawn at your capital/a special hideout as people mention, have heavy limitation based on map origin, now we’re talking about something different that’s kept in check.

The Mount and Blade games work for one major reason: they are extremely grounded. Their flaws end up being forgivable due to their nature of being oversights or a simplification for ease versus fantastical inconsistency we see in most games.

So Armor Clad Camel Ridering Knights as your special troop up in the rocky (camels don’t care about the cold as much as they do rough terrain tearing up their feet) slopes of Sturgia is ungrounded nonsense best left to a mod, which I imagine someone will do, if people want it. The Sturgians wouldn’t have the background for it. There is no historical precedence for it (cold weather mountainous camel riders), and starts to become more fantastic then grounded.

So the I would vote no on something like this is the low likelihood it would be done right, both from a balanced experience angle and keeping the game grounded angle

 

[relam10]

So, admittedly, I may be applying old arguments in general of people demanding that they be able to construct an entire troop tree, which would do every I said: devalue where you are on the map, destroy any point of hiring other troops to supplement your forces like all cultures need, and become reduced to whatever the dominate troops are.

Anyone saying “But xxxxxxx is unbalanced now, so it doesn’t matter” is completely missing the point of EA. These are all the things TW is trying to iron out. This is easier to do with set troops then an infinite variable that the player will create.

If we’re talking about a flavorful Tier 2-4 (5?) special troop that only spawn at your capital/a special hideout as people mention, have heavy limitation based on map origin, now we’re talking about something different that’s kept in check.

The Mount and Blade games work for one major reason: they are extremely grounded. Their flaws end up being forgivable due to their nature of being oversights or a simplification for ease versus fantastical inconsistency we see in most games.

So Armor Clad Camel Ridering Knights as your special troop up in the rocky (camels don’t care about the cold as much as they do rough terrain tearing up their feet) slopes of Sturgia is ungrounded nonsense best left to a mod, which I imagine someone will do, if people want it. The Sturgians wouldn’t have the background for it. There is no historical precedence for it (cold weather mountainous camel riders), and starts to become more fantastic then grounded.

So the I would vote no on something like this is the low likelihood it would be done right, both from a balanced experience angle and keeping the game grounded angle

The point of unbalance makes no sense at all.

Just see PoP. You can have a dam op troops? Yes. You need to invest tons of denars, time, make op companions first in order to train them... and a big etc? Yes.

And the most important part, you CAN choose if you want to create that custom order, or no, nobody force you to play around your custom troops.

Unbalance? You are a player agaisnt tons of npc, ofc single players will always be unbalanced, and you can just train a full top tier troop and destroy the world anyways.

There is no reason for not adding a feature like custom troops, since most of the players want it, and there are tons of ways in order to introduce it for players like you (minority) that don't want to play around it.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

Agree. I would really to see custom troop tree be a feature of the game. It should be integrated with the other parts of the game, like policies, companions, economy, culture, etc.

 

[RectalRanger]

on something like this is the low likelihood it would be done right, both from a balanced experience angle and keeping the game grounded angle

Yeah, the truthfulness of that statement moves me to the "it's probably not the best idea" side of things.

 

[stevehoos]

Yeah, the truthfulness of that statement moves me to the "it's probably not the best idea" side of things.

TW won't do the custom troop tree, I think we all know this. The sadness of this is I can't think of one major feature of any WB mods that people loved in this game. The smithy is really not very inspiring.

 

[cyresdog]

TW won't do the custom troop tree, I think we all know this. The sadness of this is I can't think of one major feature of any WB mods that people loved in this game. The smithy is really not very inspiring.

The only reason for the smithy to exist seems to be for People who wanna make tons of gold without playing 20 hours.

 

[black_bulldog]

The only reason for the smithy to exist seems to be for People who wanna make tons of gold without playing 20 hours.

It's funny with all the nerfs to workshops and caravans that have happened during ea, I can't really understand why the smithing exploit hasn't been touched.

 

[Althix]

TW won't do the custom troop tree, I think we all know this.

yeah
so no Chosen and Chaos Knights.
you know, but i would love to see a change in culture for towns. Slowly changing let say pesky battanians for proud sturgians. Let say in a couple of years.

 

[cyresdog]

It's funny with all the nerfs to workshops and caravans that have happened during ea, I can't really understand why the smithing exploit hasn't been touched.

I can see how they fix it most likely: "We made it so that you can only craft T1 Weapons" or option 2: "You can only craft 1 item per day now and made it hardcoded so it can't be fixed by mods"
There are a lot of things that i don't understand from TW's perspective, for example why they changed that you can not copy paste banners from the banner editor website into the game anymore without a mod.
As if they wanna force me to use their horrible Banner Creator that only lets me choose one simple symbol who most of em look like trash, and 8 colors for the flag and 8 colors, that are different for whatever reason, for the symbol.

Even their fixes are hardly any fixes, they just relocate problems a lot sadly.