Crazy smithing?

ringus

Recruit
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I just made a tier IV two handed sword dropped a few stats because my skills were to low. But Its work over a 100K !!!!
Tier III sword s going for around 30k .

The money seems insane!!! Infact to insane, its to expensive to sell!!

Is this an issue?

Many thanks

Edward
 

stevehoos

Master Knight
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This needs to be toned down a bit, when I am making 30,000 selling a javelin you know there are problems.
 

Marajah

Recruit
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It's been going for some time. Once you learn how to make javelins for 1 iron, 1 wood and 1 charcoal you have something so valuable it shifts the whole economy to a javelin-based system
 

stevehoos

Master Knight
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It's been going for some time. Once you learn how to make javelins for 1 iron, 1 wood and 1 charcoal you have something so valuable it shifts the whole economy to a javelin-based system
Why do anything else.... :smile::smile: Javelin maker for the win. I don't do it because I feel like it's cheating. Something is off about this game and money. Never felt this in Viking Conquest, everything felt deserved.
 

Skatan

Recruit
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Mm, it caps out at 106XXX something like that per item you sell. I keep a number of those cheaply produced javs in my inventory and at maxed out 330 smithing they are legendary. Whenever I go to a town I trade one jav for their gold, most times around 20-40k. I haven't even bothered with workshops or caravans since I'm economically independent since I reached maybe 200 smithing to so.

Considering how much some armor etc costs it makes sense what you produce does as well. I'm not sure how you could fix this or if it should even be fixed. Perhaps it should be more tightly dependent on the ingredients so that items that do not have tamaskene steel can never reach the cap even if legendary. Though to be frank, selling one jav for 106k or selling 10 for 10k each doesn't really matter, the economy would still be broken.

Once I realized how amazing smithing is, I don't feel any need to be going down the Trade route. Though tbh trade eventually gives you the option to trade fiefs which can be end end-game goal.
 

Wulfsdottir

Veteran
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Mm, it caps out at 106XXX something like that per item you sell. I keep a number of those cheaply produced javs in my inventory and at maxed out 330 smithing they are legendary. Whenever I go to a town I trade one jav for their gold, most times around 20-40k. I haven't even bothered with workshops or caravans since I'm economically independent since I reached maybe 200 smithing to so.

Considering how much some armor etc costs it makes sense what you produce does as well. I'm not sure how you could fix this or if it should even be fixed. Perhaps it should be more tightly dependent on the ingredients so that items that do not have tamaskene steel can never reach the cap even if legendary. Though to be frank, selling one jav for 106k or selling 10 for 10k each doesn't really matter, the economy would still be broken.

Once I realized how amazing smithing is, I don't feel any need to be going down the Trade route. Though tbh trade eventually gives you the option to trade fiefs which can be end end-game goal.
I think it can be fixed by lowering the prices for items that doesn't have expensive materials (as you said) and also, making to get those expensive materials hard. Like, you should really try hard and refine lots of materials to get thamaskene.
 

Skatan

Recruit
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I never bothered to refine myself I just traded cheap javs for expensive thamaskene weapons in the shop and then smelted them, opting to choose all the "curious" traits instead.

I don't know how to balance this out, but on the other hand, it's a single player game feature that doesn't necessarily need to be balanced either. There are plenty of ways to break the economy to your benefit, smithing is just one of them.

But identifying certain items that have an unusual multiplier to value and reducing it could at least be a band-aid. In my early smithing career I tended to make mostly one of the star falchion twohanded swords. They paid of extremely well before I realized javs had an even better component to selling price ratio. The exact same materials for one sword vs another sword could differ from 6k to 106k which is a bit weird. Since that particular sword type has a ridiculous damage I reckon it has to do with that. Pick the star falchion-thingy, maximize it's size to your max smith skill and sell. Then buy higher quality weapons and smelt. Wash, rinse and repeat a few in game weeks and you are economically independent even without stamina tweaks.
 

Wulfsdottir

Veteran
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I never bothered to refine myself I just traded cheap javs for expensive thamaskene weapons in the shop and then smelted them, opting to choose all the "curious" traits instead.

I don't know how to balance this out, but on the other hand, it's a single player game feature that doesn't necessarily need to be balanced either. There are plenty of ways to break the economy to your benefit, smithing is just one of them.

But identifying certain items that have an unusual multiplier to value and reducing it could at least be a band-aid. In my early smithing career I tended to make mostly one of the star falchion twohanded swords. They paid of extremely well before I realized javs had an even better component to selling price ratio. The exact same materials for one sword vs another sword could differ from 6k to 106k which is a bit weird. Since that particular sword type has a ridiculous damage I reckon it has to do with that. Pick the star falchion-thingy, maximize it's size to your max smith skill and sell. Then buy higher quality weapons and smelt. Wash, rinse and repeat a few in game weeks and you are economically independent even without stamina tweaks.
I think the price most of all depends on the CUT damage. Even the lower tier two-handed swords with high cut damage sell for 112K
 

Skatan

Recruit
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Agreed, it sure seems that way. And for javs its the same, but pierce damage instead. My own personal preferences, handling and attack speeds, seems to be of lesser value in Calradia.
 

Bob Gnarly

Sergeant
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I never bothered to refine myself I just traded cheap javs for expensive thamaskene weapons in the shop and then smelted them, opting to choose all the "curious" traits instead.

I don't know how to balance this out, but on the other hand, it's a single player game feature that doesn't necessarily need to be balanced either. There are plenty of ways to break the economy to your benefit, smithing is just one of them.

But identifying certain items that have an unusual multiplier to value and reducing it could at least be a band-aid. In my early smithing career I tended to make mostly one of the star falchion twohanded swords. They paid of extremely well before I realized javs had an even better component to selling price ratio. The exact same materials for one sword vs another sword could differ from 6k to 106k which is a bit weird. Since that particular sword type has a ridiculous damage I reckon it has to do with that. Pick the star falchion-thingy, maximize it's size to your max smith skill and sell. Then buy higher quality weapons and smelt. Wash, rinse and repeat a few in game weeks and you are economically independent even without stamina tweaks.
Smithing basically breaks the game in its current format. Once you have unlocked certain parts, money becomes a non-issue. I have to really limit what I craft, while also not selling anything I make just to prevent ruining my own game experience.

I don't really know how they're going to attempt to fix it breaking the economy, my first thought was to simply reduce how much crafted gear sells for. Ideally the devs need to look at item values as a whole and nail that down, because values are all over the place.
 

stevehoos

Master Knight
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Smithing basically breaks the game in its current format. Once you have unlocked certain parts, money becomes a non-issue. I have to really limit what I craft, while also not selling anything I make just to prevent ruining my own game experience.

I don't really know how they're going to attempt to fix it breaking the economy, my first thought was to simply reduce how much crafted gear sells for. Ideally the devs need to look at item values as a whole and nail that down, because values are all over the place.
Yeah, I have wondered this as well. Once you Smith for a awhile, there's no use to do anything else. It seems alien to the rest of the money making aspects in the game.
 

Kast

Recruit
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I don't smith at all for just this reason. Why bother trading or balancing your economy at all when you can just crank out a few weapons for hundreds of thousands of gold? At the moment, financing through smithing is more or less a cheat code.
 

black_bulldog

Sergeant
WBWF&SVC
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I don't smith at all for just this reason. Why bother trading or balancing your economy at all when you can just crank out a few weapons for hundreds of thousands of gold? At the moment, financing through smithing is more or less a cheat code.
I would agree with you but currently the min/maxing of leveling makes it seem mandatory. Smithing is pretty easy to level up and once you unlock enough parts you can even have companions do it to level them up too. I typically just smelt the stuff I make unless it's something I want that's mastercraft or legendary level.
 

Nalgasucia507

Recruit
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+1 to all the comments above.

Just to bring another side effect of breaking the economy by selling player-made weapons through smithing; they stay on the towns inventory, so after a while those weapons flood the market.
 

Lord Irontoe

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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I think the price most of all depends on the CUT damage. Even the lower tier two-handed swords with high cut damage sell for 112K
I think the price is based on damage and speed for the first mode listed. So on polearms that can be used 1H or 2H, the 1H stats are shown first, so that's why things like Menavlions and Glaives are so cheap because the price is based on their mediocre 1H stats instead of the much more powerful 2H stats. Bastard swords list the 2H values first, so they get priced like 2-handers.

Speed and handling influence the price too. You can often get a more valuable weapon by trading a little bit of damage for better handling. I don't know if the swing damage is valued more highly than the thrust damage, but since the swing damage is so much higher than thrust, it's the swing damage that influences the price. I bet if you could make a spear with 100+ thrust damage, it would also be very valuable.

For as wacky as some of the smithing prices are, I think the 1H swords are actually priced pretty well. The low grade swords sell for a few hundred and the price goes up steadily to around 10-15k for the higher tiers. The best ones I could make using a couple T5 thamascene blades that could get up to ~100-105 cutting damage sell for around 30-40k, or 60-70k with legendary modifiers. Those kinds of prices seem just right to me. It would be nice if the other weapons were around that range.
 

artemis_entreri

Recruit
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I just made a tier IV two handed sword dropped a few stats because my skills were to low. But Its work over a 100K !!!!
Tier III sword s going for around 30k .

The money seems insane!!! Infact to insane, its to expensive to sell!!

Is this an issue?

Many thanks

Edward
Use them for Barter. Get phat relationship bonuses and Charm upgrades! Just give them as gifts, works really well.
 

Wulfsdottir

Veteran
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I think the price is based on damage and speed for the first mode listed. So on polearms that can be used 1H or 2H, the 1H stats are shown first, so that's why things like Menavlions and Glaives are so cheap because the price is based on their mediocre 1H stats instead of the much more powerful 2H stats. Bastard swords list the 2H values first, so they get priced like 2-handers.

Speed and handling influence the price too. You can often get a more valuable weapon by trading a little bit of damage for better handling. I don't know if the swing damage is valued more highly than the thrust damage, but since the swing damage is so much higher than thrust, it's the swing damage that influences the price. I bet if you could make a spear with 100+ thrust damage, it would also be very valuable.

For as wacky as some of the smithing prices are, I think the 1H swords are actually priced pretty well. The low grade swords sell for a few hundred and the price goes up steadily to around 10-15k for the higher tiers. The best ones I could make using a couple T5 thamascene blades that could get up to ~100-105 cutting damage sell for around 30-40k, or 60-70k with legendary modifiers. Those kinds of prices seem just right to me. It would be nice if the other weapons were around that range.
Yeah it seems to be the combination of those factors and 1handed sword prices are more down to earth but in my opinion, still overpriced.
I don't have clear solution myself but maybe if getting the high end materials will be significantly harder, it will solve the problem by some degree. And that's in case if price will be more attached with materials used, not the damage factor so much
 

stevehoos

Master Knight
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+1 to all the comments above.

Just to bring another side effect of breaking the economy by selling player-made weapons through smithing; they stay on the towns inventory, so after a while those weapons flood the market.
My weapons are the only thing for sale sometimes, it's ruined my play through. This whole smithy idea was not thought out very well with relation to other economic factors in the game.
 

Skatan

Recruit
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I think the price is based on damage and speed for the first mode listed. So on polearms that can be used 1H or 2H, the 1H stats are shown first, so that's why things like Menavlions and Glaives are so cheap because the price is based on their mediocre 1H stats instead of the much more powerful 2H stats. Bastard swords list the 2H values first, so they get priced like 2-handers.

Speed and handling influence the price too. You can often get a more valuable weapon by trading a little bit of damage for better handling. I don't know if the swing damage is valued more highly than the thrust damage, but since the swing damage is so much higher than thrust, it's the swing damage that influences the price. I bet if you could make a spear with 100+ thrust damage, it would also be very valuable.

For as wacky as some of the smithing prices are, I think the 1H swords are actually priced pretty well. The low grade swords sell for a few hundred and the price goes up steadily to around 10-15k for the higher tiers. The best ones I could make using a couple T5 thamascene blades that could get up to ~100-105 cutting damage sell for around 30-40k, or 60-70k with legendary modifiers. Those kinds of prices seem just right to me. It would be nice if the other weapons were around that range.
Insightful post. Reading it seems you are on to something here. My own experience creating certain twohanded swords during early level of smithing corroborates since they are pure twohanders with 130+ cut damage listed. Javs have their thrown damage listed first AFAIK which is perhaps why they too are over-priced. I have made many different spears and whatnot that even legendary was sold for less than 10k.