Couched lance damage - too overpower? (long)

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Fredusko

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Well, I'm new to the forum, so I don't now if this has already been posted, but it hasn't been found by my research, so here it is.
That idea came after I started using a lance for couched lance damage and realized that it's the most overpower thing in the whole game. I mean, I have no fear in running alone towards a horde of screaming insane khergit mounted crap because I know that as soon as i touch then, there is 50% chance I unhorse the foe and 50% chance I unfoe the horse (as said by someone whose nick I can't remember).
I mean, I do 3 times more damage with my 29 base damage polearm (150 proficiency, couched lance damage) than with my 44 base damage two handed sword (290 proficiency, also while at full speed on a horse), and about 5 times more than a headshot from my 28 (+3) base damage bow (310 proficiency).
I know that couched lance damage is like having a big piece of wood through your chest, but I can't see much difference from getting sliced by a huge blade at a devastating speed or pieced through your eye and into your brain by an arrow.

My suggestions are the following:
-> After hitting someone with a CLD (couched lance damage), the player should be temporally unable to attack again for a few seconds (what happens sometimes, but not always. Sometimes I can hit 3 khergit enemies in a row with my spear).
-> A major reduction on the damage dealt.
-> Small amounts of damage when using CLD against heavy armored foes (because the force that is applied to the enemy is also applied into you. If the enemy's armor is something like a plate armor, piercing through it with a lance at high speeds would generate a big reaction force into your arm. Pretty much the same as hitting your head agains a solid wall).
In the same way, hitting an unit that is shielding herself would result in the same effect, that gets aggravated if the shield do not broke after the attack.
-> This makes allusion to the Hit Point for Weapon Topic. The idea is not necessarily to have hitpoints for lances, but perhaps durability values. When you hit an enemy with CLD, the durability would decrease a little. In the situations described above, the durability loss would be a little bigger. It's recovered when the fight finishes, but if it reaches 0 during a fight, the lance breaks (that would obligate mounted lancer to have a backup weapon like a sword). That is historically consistent, considering that, when somebody hit another with an attack like that, the lance would sometimes break or, more frequently, get stuck into the victims body, obligating the cavalry to stop to remove it or to drop it into the battlefield (what could also be implemented into the game).

I have another ideas that can be usefull but are only indirectly related to the thread, as:
-> "Horse" slots: Horses equipped would open more weapon slots (0-2 depending on the type and quality of horse). In these slots, the player is able to place things like additional horse armour (tabards, maybe?) and javelin/arrow/bolt bags. These items would be attached to the horse and remaining with the horse if the player dismounts (and, therefore, they could not be used when dismounted). However, if somebody mounts a horse that has this items attached to it, they could be normally used. Of course, you can't place weapons (like bows or swords), shields or pieces of human armour into your horse.
-> "Pack" of Lances specially designed for CLD: Perhaps weapon sellers could sell a pack of spears (lets say, 2-3 spears), that would occupy a "horse" slot. The mounted troops could then use the lances normally while mounted and when one of them breaks, the soldier could draw another one.
 
Generally agreed.  Lances should have durability, in the least.  They're tough, but not unbreakable.  Also, if one switches FROM a lance (or other polearm) to another weapon (say, sword), then the player should effectively lose the polearm -- he has to discard it to draw his smaller weapon.

M.
 
Oh no you weren't?! :P

Well, so basicly, the couched lance damage is good the way it is. 'Cuz, it's been like this for ages. And making a change with this very appreciated thing in the game is not to be messed with. Besides, no one has ever complained before, and if it's bothering you then go nord :P
 
Whats even more overpowered is bow and arrow. Strong warbow + Khergit arrow + 10 powerdraw + 400 WP + a farmers foot = 1 hit kill. No matter what, an arrow in your foot does not kill you instantly. A couched lance in your chest knocks you out.

The damage is fine, its the general issue of the lance never getting stuck, lance never breaking, that sort of thing. I agree on this, you should be able to be unable (go figure) to use your lance after some time.
 
Yeah, sorry about the spelling issue... Mah engrish be bad.

stygN said:
Whats even more overpowered is bow and arrow. Strong warbow + Khergit arrow + 10 powerdraw + 400 WP + a farmers foot = 1 hit kill. No matter what, an arrow in your foot does not kill you instantly. A couched lance in your chest knocks you out.

Yeah, but I mean, if you have the best bow, the best arrow, a huge power draw and a grotesque weapon point into archery and hit an lightly armored unit, it's "normal" that the unit gets killed. However, I'm talking about a not-so-strong lance (29) with a normal power strike (4), a below average polearm skill (150) dealing a damage in heavily armored units (plate and stuff) that was enough to kill a lord 3-6 times (in a single hit, I mean :P - I've dealt more then 300 damage in a single blow).
Well, I can generally kill an enemy hith a single sword hit as well, as long they aren't heavy armored. However, if I were some levels below, or had a little worse weaponry, I would probably need 2-3 hits from a sword to kill a normal enemy, but my COUCHED lance damage would remain able to defeat most of them in one hit.
But ok, I agree that the bow is a long range, fast shooting weapon, but even with that, it has a limited amount of shots.

And Nordman, I'm not saying that it should be removed or completely changed, I'm just saying that it should be a little more balanced.
Also, Wandering Knight, I agree with you, as long as the lance isn't short enough to be kept on your back.
 
you can hit multiple enemies in row cause you kill their horses and dead horses don't stop you AND because you hit them in row so you don't have time to take recoil... it think its a bug.

if that is fixed, i think that current couched damage is OK because (usually) it takes a while to get ready for next attack.

and i agree bows are over powered at high levels. they should be much slower or do less damage.
 
Its fine as it is in my opinion, set your diff a bit higher if its too easy for you , AI on good and combat speed on fast, its a bit diffrent.
 
The main problem I have with couched lance damage is that just any idiot can ride around and inflict massive damage with a lance.  It takes no skill or training to get ridiculous amounts of damage. 

At least the bow takes some serious character and player training to get lethal with it.  An arrow sticking through any part of your body is effectively taking that person out of battle.  The issue is M&B only knows that piercing kills, even if it hits a foot. 
 
AA0 said:
The main problem I have with couched lance damage is that just any idiot can ride around and inflict massive damage with a lance.  It takes no skill or training to get ridiculous amounts of damage. 

At least the bow takes some serious character and player training to get lethal with it.  An arrow sticking through any part of your body is effectively taking that person out of battle.  The issue is M&B only knows that piercing kills, even if it hits a foot. 

Yeah, that's what I meant, thanks for making it simple.
Give both a horse and a spear to a potato and it's going to kill people with CLD. My idea was to make the lance sooner or later get stuck or break.
Also, siprus, I understand that bows are overpowered at high levels. What concerns me are the LOW levels.
 
lances lose their point if it is not one-hit-kill since if your enemy loses 1/2 of their health  somebody else has allready killed him when you find him (if you find).

so only clever way(in my opinion) would be to make it take longer time get ready with your lance. anyway what ever is done it shouldn't effect high level lancing.

reality wise breaking lances would be right, but it would make them useless in battles (since in big battles you kill so many enemies).

but i still think lance damage is OK
. since at low levels you kill enemies pretty quickly (if you fight low level enemies)with any melee weapon while riding. and with right tactic sword you can actually kill quicker with great sword if you are fighting bunch of enemies. (with lance you need to ride further away to gain speed).

same goes for fighting on foot, you can kill much faster on foot than with lance.just make your enemies fight your troops and get them from side with as big and damaging weapons as you can afford. again, because with lance you need to ride far away to gain speed.

just my opinion.

 
I feel couched lance damage is perfect the way it is - HOWEVER, I also feel that it should break the same way a shield does in battle: use it too many times and it becomes disabled.
 
Yes I agree to the breaking part. But what if you don't couch it. And just steer and thrust. Would that break it too?
 
NordMann 2 said:
Yes I agree to the breaking part. But what if you don't couch it. And just steer and thrust. Would that break it too?

Well, probably, but the lance should lose less HP/durability this way (considering that the damage is lower, the impact the lance has to absorp is also lower). Also, the durability loss would also happen only if you thrust at high speeds (perhaps, equal or higher than the couched lance speed). I mean, if your horse is stopped or slowly walking, the weapon would not receive damage (as it wouldn't if you were on foot).
 
The amount of damage you inflict will also be taken from the lance HP. Say if it got 1000 HP, it will probably break after 5-6.
 
NordMann 2 said:
The amount of damage you inflict will also be taken from the lance HP. Say if it got 1000 HP, it will probably break after 5-6.

that would make lance completely useless. 6*4=24 kills minus damage to horses. thats not gonna take you far in big battles, and that is whit out  shield or back up weapon.

 
Roland and his cavalry unit scored multiple kills with their lances without discarding them.  However, I believe their lances where the thrusting sort, not the impact sort.

M.
 
You've got to remember the battle chest.

If you break your lance and use the chest it will get fixed.

It could also be a new skill that makes your lance last longer (like the shield skill).

But I think you should be able to KO at least 10 enemies, if not 15 with each lance.
 
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