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Mad Vader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
I supported my immune system every day and got natural antibodies.
How old are you?
You didn't grow a natural brain to figure out how vaccines work, which is why you are a stupid antivaxxer.
I can recognize one because I know all your arguments and also why they are wrong. I'm telling you for your own sake, you walked into the wrong bar.
 
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Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Dancing to electro-pop like a robot since 1984
Subforum Moderator
M&BWBNWWF&SVC
before anyone gets any ideas, i would like to repost the moderation stance on this:
Continuing to post misinformation regarding Covid-19 and vaccines while pushing fringe theories will result in your access to this thread being restricted. This is a globe-spanning public health issue, and the longer it takes people to get vaccinated the more likely it becomes that resistant variants will develop. Second-guessing the consensus on vaccines does nothing but undermine the world-wide vaccination effort.

and also remind everyone to follow all forum rules, generally.
 
before anyone gets any ideas, i would like to repost the moderation stance on this:


and also remind everyone to follow all forum rules, generally.
If I had known that the risk of repeatedly insulting is just a mild warning I would have said that MadVader is an idiot...
Continuing to post misinformation regarding Covid-19 and vaccines while pushing fringe theories will result in your access to this thread being restricted. This is a globe-spanning public health issue, and the longer it takes people to get vaccinated the more likely it becomes that resistant variants will develop. Second-guessing the consensus on vaccines does nothing but undermine the world-wide vaccination effort.
It's very sad to see that you are using your power as moderators to enforce censorship. ?
However this is not the problem right now, but the people who insult (and are allowed to).
 

Mad Vader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
Inappropriate behavior
If I had known that the risk of repeatedly insulting is just a mild warning I would have said that MadVader is an idiot...

It's very sad to see that you are using your power as moderators to enforce censorship. ?
However this is not the problem right now, but the people who insult (and are allowed to).
I apologize for using unscientific words, you just have lower cognitive ability.

Conclusions​

Erroneous social media reports might have complicated personal decision-making, leading to people with lower cognitive ability being vaccine-hesitant. With individuals with lower cognition also experiencing higher rates of COVID-19 in studies conducted prior to vaccine distribution, these new findings are suggestive of a potential additional disease burden.
 

eddiemccandless

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
I apologize for using unscientific words, you just have lower cognitive ability.
I know that you are just being edgy here, but you are not using that paper right. They show that performing more poorly on those tests is a predictor for vaccine hesitancy, but so is being female, younger, non white and many other elements (as per the paper itself). Hopefully you can see how all of this goes against your line of thought of "if you are against COVID vaccines you are dumb". That is not how it works, and by attacking people who are vaccine hesitant the way that you are doing you are not really making things better.
 

Mad Vader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
I know that you are just being edgy here, but you are not using that paper right. They show that performing more poorly on those tests is a predictor for vaccine hesitancy, but so is being female, younger, non white and many other elements (as per the paper itself). Hopefully you can see how all of this goes against your line of thought of "if you are against COVID vaccines you are dumb". That is not how it works, and by attacking people who are vaccine hesitant the way that you are doing you are not really making things better.
After adjustment for age, sex, and ethnicity, study members with a lower baseline cognition score were markedly more likely to be vaccine hesitant
 

eddiemccandless

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
In age-, sex- and ethnicity-adjusted analyses, a one standard deviation lower score in general cognitive ability was associated with a 76% greater risk of being vaccine hesitant (odds ratio; 95% confidence interval: 1.76; 1.62, 1.90). While separate adjustments for somatic comorbidity, psychological distress, and shielding had no impact on this relationship, adjustment for education led to some attenuation (1.52; 1.37, 1.67) – the Kendall rank correlation between cognition and educational attainment was 0.27 (p < 0.0001). Simultaneous adjustment for all covariates had no greater attenuating effect than the adjustment for education alone.

If you want to actually have a nuanced understanding of what the paper actually says you need to go past the abstract and get into the nitty gritty of things. If you don't do that you are at risk of misinterpreting what the authors are saying, which is ironically what people who are against COVID vaccines do when reading medical studies that they don't really understand.

Edit: also, just to be clear. Even if the paper said that "dumb" people are more likely to be "antivaxxers" (which it doesn't, because they found a correlation between cognitive function, which is not the same as intelligence, and being vaccine hesitant, which is not the same as being antivaxxers), you are implying from that that all antivaxxers are dumb, which would be wrong. Following that line of thought according to the same paper all antivaxxers are also women, non white etc. Do you see what I am saying here?
 
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Mad Vader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
If you want to actually have a nuanced understanding of what the paper actually says you need to go past the abstract and get into the nitty gritty of things. If you don't do that you are at risk of misinterpreting what the authors are saying, which is ironically what people who are against COVID vaccines do when reading medical studies that they don't really understand.

Edit: also, just to be clear. Even if the paper said that "dumb" people are more likely to be "antivaxxers" (which it doesn't, because they found a correlation between cognitive function, which is not the same as intelligence, and being vaccine hesitant, which is not the same as being antivaxxers), you are implying from that that all antivaxxers are dumb, which would be wrong. Following that line of thought according to the same paper all antivaxxers are also women, non white etc. Do you see what I am saying here?
Well, I didn't put nuance in my statement, and you kindly filled in the blanks. In a wrong way, of course, because you are a terrible person!
The correct conclusion is of course that antivaxxers are dumber. Oh, I'm sorry, they have a relatively lower cognitive ability compared to their statistical peers who love vaccines!
I also had vaccines for dinner and feel smarter already. OKAY? :iamamoron:
 

Adorno

Bedroom Assassin
Archduke
WBNWM&BVC
I got my 3rd. shot back in December and here in Denmark the vaccine program has been shut down. Covid-19 is cancelled :iamamoron:
(People can still get the vaccine (free) but have to apply themselves).
... because they found a correlation between cognitive function, which is not the same as intelligence, and being vaccine hesitant, which is not the same as being antivaxxers).
But the results (of not just this study) show a strong correlation between cognitive function and level of education and thereby intelligence.
MadVader is being edgy and provocative using the word "dumb", but it's not entirely wrong.
Also, they wouldn't use the word "antivaxxer" because it's generally about hesitancy. But it's obvious that the higher a person scores on vaccine hesitancy the more likely they are in that group we colloquially call "antivaxxers". Again, I don't see MadVader being that wrong.

I'm more curious why they chose to do cognitive tests instead of classic IQ tests or just level of education.
The cognitive tests sound like the ones you use to estimate brain damage.
For example the Montreal Cognitive Assessment test also uses memory (remembering words) simple math and saying as many words starting with L (e.g.) in a minute. (Did they exclude people with history of brain damage? I didnt' notice that, but it might have little influence on the results).
 

Mad Vader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
I got my 3rd. shot back in December and here in Denmark the vaccine program has been shut down. Covid-19 is cancelled :iamamoron:
(People can still get the vaccine (free) but have to apply themselves).
The evil big pharma predicts omicron vaccine availability in September, so I'm guessing people would be asked (but probably not required) to get an omicron booster shot in Autumn, to prepare for the next wave.
For example the Montreal Cognitive Assessment test also uses memory (remembering words) simple math and saying as many words starting with L (e.g.) in a minute.
Person, woman, man, camera, TV, covfefe.
 

eddiemccandless

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
I got my 3rd. shot back in December and here in Denmark the vaccine program has been shut down. Covid-19 is cancelled :iamamoron:
(People can still get the vaccine (free) but have to apply themselves).

But the results (of not just this study) show a strong correlation between cognitive function and level of education and thereby intelligence.
MadVader is being edgy and provocative using the word "dumb", but it's not entirely wrong.
Also, they wouldn't use the word "antivaxxer" because it's generally about hesitancy. But it's obvious that the higher a person scores on vaccine hesitancy the more likely they are in that group we colloquially call "antivaxxers". Again, I don't see MadVader being that wrong.

I'm more curious why they chose to do cognitive tests instead of classic IQ tests or just level of education.
The cognitive tests sound like the ones you use to estimate brain damage.
For example the Montreal Cognitive Assessment test also uses memory (remembering words) simple math and saying as many words starting with L (e.g.) in a minute. (Did they exclude people with history of brain damage? I didnt' notice that, but it might have little influence on the results).
First of all, intelligence and education are not the same thing. Cognitive function and education kind of are (at least based on the way that the authors of that paper pose it). To answer the second part of your post, they actually do say that what they are doing is equivalent to a comparison based on education.

We found similar results in using more detailed measures of cognitive function in a large sample which allowed us to explore the shape of the relationship across the full range of abilities. A closely related literature is that for education with which cognition is positively correlated (Neisser et al., 1996). This supports the present results whereby people with higher educational achievement were less likely to be vaccine-hesitant (Kuter et al., 2021, Nguyen et al., 2021).

Second, my main problem with what @MadVader was saying is that he was implying that this paper shows that all people who are vaccine hesitant are stupid. That is not even close to what the paper is saying.

And based on previous conversation I hope I don't need to say this, but just in case: I too am fully vaccinated. I just don't find it particularly productive to insult people I disagree with, no matter how wrong or misinformed they are. Some are willingly spreading disinformation in bad faith, and I am not particularly fond of them, but even then there's nothing to be gained in insulting them.
 

Mad Vader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
And based on previous conversation I hope I don't need to say this, but just in case: I too am fully vaccinated. I just don't find it particularly productive to insult people I disagree with, no matter how wrong or misinformed they are. Some are willingly spreading disinformation in bad faith, and I am not particularly fond of them, but even then there's nothing to be gained in insulting them.
I agree, you engage them constructively and in good faith, and leave the insulting to me.
I'm entitled to insulting anti-vaxxers, I'm in a risk group and they wouldn't bat an eye to kill me either with their indifference or stupidity. Insulting is merely a social corrective and better than manslaughter!
 
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