corona? :(

[Lord Ferdinand]

The anti-something people are up in arms about their freedom not to be vaccinated, because plague-bearing is a human right, and they don't want to feel like second-class citizens when excluded from vaccinated-only activities and venues which begin to open up.
The counter-argument is that the alternative is closing these activities to everybody until general vaccination rate is sufficiently high. They just want to ruin it for others, which fits with their general selfish behavior.

This is not the black death, mortality is similar than normal influenza and vaccination is not stopping the infections neither deaths, but is creating new variants, not to mention the adverse reactions, including death, and the fact that it is an experimental gene cure, of which we know nothing of the long-term effects. We should then talk about the almost total disappearance of the normal flu, in fact there was a vertical collapse of the cases recorded between 2020 and 2021 (WHO data), which is very strange.
This disease can be easily treated at home if treated with the right drugs, there is no need for a mandatory mass vaccination, it makes no sense to do it during a pandemic (on the contrary, it is not recommended), and in any case the ethical aspect of the vaccine passport and other limitations is by no means secondary, if you know the history and the value of democracy. Too many have forgotten the Nuremberg code, or Convention for the Protection of Human Rights (Oviedo).
The fact that drugs that work (like hydroxychloroquine and others) have been not recommended by AIFA (Italian drug agency) in my country, clearly demonstrates that there is a political will that has nothing to do with science. Also, even a doctor said "the curfew has no scientific reason, but we change the way we live (immunologist Antonella Viola). As well as several politicians (Canadian prime minister for example) have said that this pandemic is an opportunity to implement "the great reset", which is not a conspiracy theory but a WEF document. I conclude by saying that even the WHO has advised against using the lockdown, as it causes an increase in poverty (while big techs increase profits).
Sorry but you are doing misinformation and propaganda without valid supporting evidence.

 

[Adorno]

Mortality is not similar to flu but higher. You also forget to take into account the number of people infected.
When millions are getting sick, a low mortality can still be a high death rate.
Influenza is known for being seasonal. So far Covid-19 keeps going, and so kills many more people.
(Also, influenza is already a big killer. So saying it's no worse than influenza (which it is, though) is of no comfort).
It's a little early to see the full effects of vaccines. How do you conclude they don't stop infections?
Where did you read vaccines create new variants? With many variants being found before vaccines were rolled out, it's hard to even draw such a conclusion.
The disease can not be easily treated. Even with the best intensive treatment mortality is still high. In countries with well functioning health care systems like France or Sweden death rates remain high despite use of the best known treatments.
Hydrochloroquine has proven ineffective.
I would be very interested if you could link to some of the information you have, please.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

Is chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine useful in treating people with COVID-19, or in preventing infection in people who have been exposed to the virus?

"Hydroxychloroquine does not reduce deaths from COVID-19, and probably does not reduce the number of people needing mechanical ventilation."

www.cochrane.org

 

[Lord Ferdinand]

Hydrochloroquine has proven ineffective.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
"hydroxychloroquine is not beneficial for patients with COVID-19 who require care in hospital". Oh thanks. Everyone knows that it should be used in the early stages of the disease.

 

[Adorno]

That has also been examined:

The authors sought evidence of the effects of these drugs in treating people ill with the disease; in preventing the disease in people at risk of getting the disease, such as health workers; and people exposed to the virus developing the disease.

• Hydroxychloroquine does not reduce deaths from COVID-19, and probably does not reduce the number of people needing mechanical ventilation.
• Hydroxychloroquine caused more unwanted effects than a placebo treatment, though it did not appear to increase the number of serious unwanted effects.
• The authors do not think new studies of hydroxychloroquine should be started for treatment of COVID-19.

Do you know of places where hydrochloroquine is being used at the moment against covid-19 - either as treament or prophylactic?

 

[Lord Ferdinand]

What you are trying to do is called "cherry picking". Another similar study was published and quickly removed from the journal Nature last year (or Science, not sure).

 

[Adorno]

A Cochrane (network of independent researchers) systematic review of research is the opposite of cherry picking.
In terms of reliability it's some of the best you can get in medical research.
Referring to one redacted study, on the other hand, might fall under the category of "cherry picking".
There's good reason the study was redacted, and that no countries use hydrochloroquine in the treatment or prevention of covid-19 today.

 

[eddiemccandless]

@Lord Ferdinand where are you getting all of that from?

 

[Mad Vader]

@Lord Ferdinand where are you getting all of that from?

The Facebook School of Disinformation where he graduated as Doctor of Pseudoscience. It looks like one of the QAnon crapfests. I bet he thinks Trump is some kind of a hero too.

 

[dijiTurk]

That has also been examined:



Do you know of places where hydrochloroquine is being used at the moment against covid-19 - either as treament or prophylactic?

I think ıts still in use at Turkey(because it reduces the Total illness time a little bit).

(High dose harmful/pretty risky for hearth etc, so some ppl refuse taking it)

 

[Lord Ferdinand]

@Lord Ferdinand where are you getting all of that from?

You could start by watching this (from 50:22):

Spoiler

The Facebook School of Disinformation where he graduated as Doctor of Pseudoscience. It looks like one of the QAnon crapfests. I bet he thinks Trump is some kind of a hero too.

? Do you have anything else to say besides denigrating with these nonsense?

 

[Mad Vader]

You could start by watching this (from 50:22):

Spoiler

? Do you have anything else to say besides denigrating with these nonsense?

I have no patience for disinformation and conspiracies. Adorno does and demolished your arguments already, so maybe you should re-examine your life choices instead of being edgy.

 

[Lord Ferdinand]

You are funny... ?

 

[dijiTurk]

Btw there are a lot of covid cases at India nowadays. Didnt share a news yet, but i would like too point out that a mutation from India May come or even it may be already available.

i hateeeee automatic word changer at my phone. Thx Google

 

[eddiemccandless]

@Lord Ferdinand the YouTube video you linked is not talking about anything of what you said in your post though (and it is an interview to a politician, so... that's trustworthy information to you?). The bit you refer to at the timestamp seems to be a lady from protezione civile answering a question from a journalist (I honestly don't know who that particular individual is).

Have you ever heard of Pillole di Ottimismo? https://www.facebook.com/pillolediottimismo/. They have a team of virologists and experts lead by Guido Silvestri who have done a great job at presenting covid information in a non politicized way (which is honestly one of the worst issues with this pandemic, people are bickering over imaginary political arguments, while the virus couldn't care less who you vote for).

 

[Lord Ferdinand]

I know, it's about how covid deaths are counted here, it was just an input to stimulate you to doubt the dominant narrative. Many others have confirmed what she said, including doctors. Not a mistery.
When I spoke of political choices I didn't mean politics in the strict sense but connected to economic interests.
I didn't know Silvestri. A little bit of a vaccine fanatic, but he also says interesting things: "If we give bad news, the clicks we make are three times more than when we give good news". This is what a very famous Italian journalist told me at the beginning of the pandemic. He says many right things (public health must be protected and financed, epidemiologists are better off in labs than on TV, etc.) and speaks positively about monoclonal antibodies (also hampered by AIFA). However, they are more reliable to me: (1) (2) (3) .

 

[Zombie Warrior]

more reliable to me:

and why should I trust the pseudoscience that appeals to you? I also can't read italian. Can you give me a source that references an actual study and not what some random person thinks make sense. Because anyone can just claim anything; hence why people don't trust wikipedia easily despite the best of intent of most of its editors or why people make a big fuss about peer review and scientific methodology.

Give me a reason why I should trust your sources. What expertise do your sources base themselves on? Is it peer reviewed? Is it from a reputable source of information? Are actual experts involved? etc.

Also, please provide sources in a language that everyone can understand, not just your native language because you can make it say whatever you want and I won't really be able to confirm or infirm what is being said.

Btw, nothing about your behaviour so far is tempting me to take you seriously. If you are being serious, then it's failing on me and I'm still not sure if this is some kind of prank and I'm falling for it. If so, good job, you got me.

 

[Mad Vader]

You are funny... ?

You know what's funny? You didn't answer to Adorno's questions. Please do that and, if you can't, don't be afraid to admit your sources are some weird people on the internet who are not experts, but you like their paranoid stories about the elites crushing the little man.

It's a little early to see the full effects of vaccines. How do you conclude they don't stop infections?
Where did you read vaccines create new variants? With many variants being found before vaccines were rolled out, it's hard to even draw such a conclusion.

I would be very interested if you could link to some of the information you have, please.

We are waiting!

And here are some of mine just to point out how you are so misinformed that you don't bother to google for five minutes.

This is not the black death, mortality is similar than normal influenza and vaccination is not stopping the infections neither deaths, but is creating new variants, not to mention the adverse reactions, including death, and the fact that it is an experimental gene cure, of which we know nothing of the long-term effects.

The virus causes much more adverse reactions including death. Why on Earth are you more afraid of the vaccines than the virus?? Stop and think about this for as long as it takes.
The current vaccines are already tested on millions and we have the data. Let's see what they say about AZ clotting, which is basically a media scare story.

People who contract COVID-19 are also 100 times more likely to experience cerebral venous thrombosis (CVT) than the general population, a new pre-print Oxford University study has found.

The research, conducted in the wake of numerous high-profile clotting cases linked to people who had received the AstraZeneca vaccine, found around 39 in one million people with COVID are diagnosed with CVT, compared with 0.4 per million people who had not contracted the disease.

CVT was also found to be more common among people who received either the Pfizer, Moderna or AstraZeneca COVID vaccines – at a rate of between 4–5 per million – meaning people with coronavirus are between 8–10 times more likely to develop the blood clots than those who have been vaccinated against it.

Also you seem to be confusing injecting DNA and RNA with "experimental gene cure" whatever that is. You like scary and meaningless words, don't you.
The mRNA vaccines, Moderna and Pfizer, use RNA which is injected in the cell but doesn't meddle with our genes. Here's the CDC info.

• mRNA never enters the nucleus of the cell, which is where our DNA (genetic material) is kept.
• The cell breaks down and gets rid of the mRNA soon after it is finished using the instructions.

The viral vector vaccines, like AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson use a harmless virus. Definitely not messing with our genes.
Where is your experimental gene cure?? Please admit you are wrong and just spreading disinformation.

We should then talk about the almost total disappearance of the normal flu, in fact there was a vertical collapse of the cases recorded between 2020 and 2021 (WHO data), which is very strange.

There's nothing strange about this and it was predicted at the beginning of the first lockdowns, over a year ago. Unless you deliberately want to make a sinister mystery and refuse to listen to experts, a common theme of all your silly claims.

• Flu season has been mild this year, thanks to the mitigation measures used to contain COVID-19, such as physical distancing and mask wearing.
• School and office closures also contributed to the unusually inactive flu season.
• The mitigation measures curbed influenza activity even though COVID-19 surged.

What is very strange about this? I expect an answer here too.

 

[eddiemccandless]

I know, it's about how covid deaths are counted here, it was just an input to stimulate you to doubt the dominant narrative. Many others have confirmed what she said, including doctors. Not a mistery.
When I spoke of political choices I didn't mean politics in the strict sense but connected to economic interests.
I didn't know Silvestri. A little bit of a vaccine fanatic, but he also says interesting things: "If we give bad news, the clicks we make are three times more than when we give good news". This is what a very famous Italian journalist told me at the beginning of the pandemic. He says many right things (public health must be protected and financed, epidemiologists are better off in labs than on TV, etc.) and speaks positively about monoclonal antibodies (also hampered by AIFA). However, they are more reliable to me: (1) (2) (3) .

The bit about clicks is very true, but you should keep that in mind every time you read anything, including sources that confirm what you believe in. What makes you think that the sources in the link that you share are not after clicks and reads? I am sure that if you look at the titles objectively you can see that they are pretty much clickbaits.

Anyway I am glad I was able to introduce you to another source of information, hopefully that can be of help. Another useful resource is Google scholar honestly. You can have direct access to scientific papers, and these days everything on covid is open source. Unless you have a background in medicine and/or research you won't be able to follow every single detail, but the abstract and conclusions (beginning and end of the paper) are often accessible to non specialists. That way you really are doing your own research instead of relying on journalists who have who knows what interest in making you believe this or that.

 

[Mad Vader]

Another fine resource that undermines the argument "non-Covid deaths are counted as Covid deaths, you can't trust the official numbers, these people would have died anyway" is the Euromomo site.
They only collect numbers of weekly dead from participant countries without any mention of Covid. And THEN, they draw you a graph of deaths against EXPECTED deaths which is an average of previous years. So the graphs are useful in seeing EXCESS deaths, which in a pandemic are almost all Covid-related and are alarmingly visible against each Covid wave. Enjoy!

 

[Mad Vader]

It's just a flu, lolz.

Spoiler: Delhi