Got my second dose of Moderna vaccine yesterday, went out to celebrate, had a bit too much to drink and crashed my car on the way home. Damn vaccine.
corona? :(
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You have to be careful. One of the best known side effects is making trees suddenly appear in the center of the roadway.
Nice.
@Lord Brutus congratulations on your vaccine, less so on the car 
I hope you emerged unscathed!
I hope you emerged unscathed!
+1. Don't drink and drive, Brutus!
Germany Joins Growing List of Countries to Suspend Astra Vaccine
Germany suspended use of AstraZeneca Plc’s Covid-19 vaccine amid a growing health scare that’s creating yet another delay for the European Union’s inoculation campaign.
www.bloomberg.com
This is solely because Norway did it out of abundance of caution and then other countries joined in because of Norway, and then it snowballed. Which this article doesn't mention.
Here's the reality (AZ statement but whatevs):
A UK doctor (talking about ordinary clot occurence):
Here's the reality (AZ statement but whatevs):
Which is at the same level as normal, unrelated clotting AFAIK. In other words, the decisions are political to prevent anti-vaccine hysteria. And we know people who like to spread it.
A UK doctor (talking about ordinary clot occurence):
最后编辑:
We have the same problem with vaccines and autism. Because vaccination often take place at the same time where autism is detected. And because of a moron, called Andrew Wakefield, published a fraudulent study in 1998, which was retracted, and he as been barred from practising medicine in the UK.It's a little sad how stories of deaths and a possible link to vaccines circulate.
There's so much focus on vaccines that anything becomes a story, even if there is none.
Fact check: No links found between vaccination and deaths – DW – 03/15/2021
Reports of COVID-19 vaccines causing lethal side effects have been making headlines. DW looked into reports from several countries.www.dw.com
And more than twenty years later some people still fear vaccines for this.
I read a description of cases from Norway. It was described as a low count of platelets with both bleeding and clotting.
To me that sounds like disseminated intravascular coagulation.
That's not 'just' a blood clot. It's a very specific, complex condition that doesn't just happen at random, but is typically caused by other diseases, like infections or cancer e.g. It also has a high mortality rate. I understand the people in Norway who got the "blood clots" were otherwise young and healthy.
I think it's very wise to examine this and put the vaccines on hold, even though it's a tricky calculation of saving lives vs. safety of a vaccine.
But general trust in vaccines is crucial in these times.
To me that sounds like disseminated intravascular coagulation.
That's not 'just' a blood clot. It's a very specific, complex condition that doesn't just happen at random, but is typically caused by other diseases, like infections or cancer e.g. It also has a high mortality rate. I understand the people in Norway who got the "blood clots" were otherwise young and healthy.
I think it's very wise to examine this and put the vaccines on hold, even though it's a tricky calculation of saving lives vs. safety of a vaccine.
But general trust in vaccines is crucial in these times.
最后编辑:
They were allergic to a Swedish vaccine and so are you. It's the prejudice that really kills you.
Seriously, how significant is the number of reported cases? It seems terribly low.
Which is something health professionals (not politicians) point out when making a case to continue vaccination.
Seriously, how significant is the number of reported cases? It seems terribly low.
Which is something health professionals (not politicians) point out when making a case to continue vaccination.
Another fun fact on the "Don't Panic" side.
AZ trials found that 38% of the people receiving it reported some kind of adverse effect (one day flu-like symptoms are expected in a significant number of people, and only shows the immune system is reacting well).
They also found that 28% of the people receiving placebo in the trials also reported adverse side effects. That's even more significant and interesting. People who don't know what is placebo would vote to ban it immediately, and that's the main context of popular vaccine fears.
AZ trials found that 38% of the people receiving it reported some kind of adverse effect (one day flu-like symptoms are expected in a significant number of people, and only shows the immune system is reacting well).
They also found that 28% of the people receiving placebo in the trials also reported adverse side effects. That's even more significant and interesting. People who don't know what is placebo would vote to ban it immediately, and that's the main context of popular vaccine fears.
Is placebo effects significant? They appear in all trials.
There has been some debate about whether the economic impact of lockdowns could end up being worse than the actual pandemic.
This report indicates that a healthcare sector severely interrrupted by it is costing a lot of lives (and more in the future due to lack of inoculations e.g.).
It's still complex, but in a few years we might begin to see the many adverse effects of the pandemic.
Covid-19 disruptions killed 228,000 children in South Asia, says UN report
A new UN report says interrupted health services caused hundreds of thousands of deaths in South Asia.
www.bbc.com
There has been some debate about whether the economic impact of lockdowns could end up being worse than the actual pandemic.
This report indicates that a healthcare sector severely interrrupted by it is costing a lot of lives (and more in the future due to lack of inoculations e.g.).
It's still complex, but in a few years we might begin to see the many adverse effects of the pandemic.
It is in the sense that you need to consider the difference between the two. If 30% of the people who do not get the vaccine come down with something, and 32% of those who get the vaccine also do, then you need to do statistical analysis to see if that 2% is just there by chance or if the intervention could have caused it. Same thing with protection from the virus. That's kind of the point of a placebo, it serves as a baseline to understand the effect of the drug that you are testing.
Yes, side effects to vaccines can be placebo.
But the effect of vaccines are tested objectively - both groups are tested.
And if we're talking about blood clots, that's also objective (we have no research indicating the mind can cause blood clots).
The other side effects like chills, head ache, muscle ache etc. are subjective and can be placebo (or more accurately: nocebo), but we're not really worried about those.
(I also got chills, severe head ache and muscle ache for about 24 hours after the 2nd jab of Pfizer/BioNtech).
You should read about the placebo effects of antidepressants. That's practically the entire effect of them
But the effect of vaccines are tested objectively - both groups are tested.
And if we're talking about blood clots, that's also objective (we have no research indicating the mind can cause blood clots).
The other side effects like chills, head ache, muscle ache etc. are subjective and can be placebo (or more accurately: nocebo), but we're not really worried about those.
(I also got chills, severe head ache and muscle ache for about 24 hours after the 2nd jab of Pfizer/BioNtech).
You should read about the placebo effects of antidepressants. That's practically the entire effect of them
最后编辑:
Well I am probably not saying anything that you don't already know, but the thing is that the control group doesn't just test for psychological effects. There could also be other external factors that cause side effects independently from the vaccine.
Maybe in both groups there's people who have risk factors for stroke, so if you see a high percentage of people having a stroke after being given the vaccine you would look at the control group, see that they also have the same percentage, and then that's probably not the vaccine doing it... although more formally you would say that you found no evidence that the vaccine causes it, and then journalists would be like "ah! but you also found no evidence that it doesn't!", and that's why typically researchers don't love talking to journalists.
Now the challenge for that to work is that you need to have all sorts of different people in both groups, ideally with the same distribution of pathologies/risk factors, so that each group is representative of the average human being. That is from what I understand why medical trials typically have a really large number of participants (that and the fact that the effect size is often small, so you need large groups to see differences).
Maybe in both groups there's people who have risk factors for stroke, so if you see a high percentage of people having a stroke after being given the vaccine you would look at the control group, see that they also have the same percentage, and then that's probably not the vaccine doing it... although more formally you would say that you found no evidence that the vaccine causes it, and then journalists would be like "ah! but you also found no evidence that it doesn't!", and that's why typically researchers don't love talking to journalists
.Now the challenge for that to work is that you need to have all sorts of different people in both groups, ideally with the same distribution of pathologies/risk factors, so that each group is representative of the average human being. That is from what I understand why medical trials typically have a really large number of participants (that and the fact that the effect size is often small, so you need large groups to see differences).
Pentagathoos
Sergeant at Arms
I definitely wouldn't be surprised. It would be very interesting to see how age effects whether people are in favour of lockdowns or not, judging by my pretty infrequent social media use I get the impression that older people are more often against lockdowns which is kind of amusing considering they're the ones at risk.
Also would be interesting to see if kids growing up during these years have longterm personality changes at the population level.
BBC Humor: top news unrelated
Covid-19: EU states to resume AstraZeneca vaccine rollout
Germany, France, Italy and Spain will restart vaccinations after a regulator says it is "safe".
www.bbc.com
Spain passes law allowing euthanasia
Lawmakers vote to make Spain the fourth European country to allow euthanasia, despite opposition.
www.bbc.com
Pentagathoos
Sergeant at Arms
Why has Sweden been so opposed to taking measures against Covid? I'd have expected those uber-liberal fish ticklers to be wearing five masks each, locking up themselves up and injecting absolutely anything Bill Gates tells them to.
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