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Arthur R.

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Hi, I've decided to check this mod out, and I was wondering as it says it's still in beta if the mod devs are open for input. The reason being I re-enact the 1257's as a member of the Knights Hospitaller. And my research into the period (and surrounding periods) may be of use as I have noted a few mistakes on textures and models (No offence of course). So if I could have the opportunity to speak to a dev for historical input and correction, that'd be great.
 
Hey, thanks for the offer. The mod is more or less done (make sure you have not the beta version, which still can be found on the internet a lot, but the current 1.03 version). Their might be a few bug fixes, but I doubt we will be reworking any of the art.
 
It's mainly to do with Knights Hospitaller & Templars. In the holy land. To which there is historical inaccuracy about their uniforms and locations held by the orders. Which to me is quite a big thing. But either way tis' still a nice mod.
 
i doubt there is error in uniforms,i researched the stuff for 3 years,believe me...the holdings of the lords are random on start of each campaign
 
Please take no offence in this, when I say you have missed out some things (Including geographical locations, which were of importance during 1200's), and some uniforms have imperfections and inaccuracy. Again, I mean no offence and offer to help you achieve historical accuracy (Through telling you what's wrong :smile: ).
 
Here's a few of them:

You've missed out The Isle Of Wight, to which has Carisbrooke Castle situated in the centre of the seven valleys. It has traces back to roman era, and became a fully fortified castle around the 1100's under Richard de Redvers. And it still stand today even though encountered many a siege by the french (and in good condition).

You've not included Malta, which was an island of great importance to Sicily, muslims and the byzantine empire during the medieval era. To which was a practical trade port due to the islands location. (Then was given to Knights Hospitaller in 1500's :3)

You've not included Rhodes (city & island scale), which has a long period of power struggles from byzantine, even though it was closely regarded as an important Byzantine trading post and stronghold, and not to mention fertile soil for growing good produce.

On your scabbards, I've noticed that you don't have a pointed mouthpiece, which was all the rage in the 13th C. (Don't know why protecting a bit of your quillons with your scabbard was, it just was.)

On most of the utility belts, you only have a pouch if that, in the 13th C. they always carried their own cutlery on the utility belt (even been references of soldiers still carrying them into combat). Though on your virtual tapestry artwork, you have them and the famous Bread Knife which is absolutely lovely :smile:

The Knights Hospitaller had one of the most disciplined and well trained troops, equip with the finest gear available and all being issued with the clothing and armour they required, which they were one of the only orders in that time with a uniformed Order. Once you were given your kit when you joined, it stayed with you until death; and then passed on to the next; you never owned any of it, just loaned. But if a 1240's cappa still had a small cross on it, and this was 1250's; the squire would remove the small cross and put a large centred one on it for the new knight.

A Brother-Knight-At-Arms would wear always wear a cappa (See K1), with a centred eight pointed white cross. And would not a Surcoat. They also wore Transitional Helms (Which there is figuratively none in the mod). Having their Utility belt to help hold up the cappa and relieve some of the weight of their hauberks, while their sword belt obviously only held the sword and scabbard. They wore three layers of protection; A Gambeson, Aketon and (Full length) Hauberk. And Mail mittens, Chausses, and coif  for limbs.

K1: They obviously didn't wear the cappa to sleep, they wore their undershirts or nothing, really personal preference. And also when they weren't armoured up they'd be in their work tunics, which were a black tunic with eight pointed white cross on it, ending at the knees, with sleeves.

While Brother-Sergeant-At-Arms would always wear a Surcoat, with a eight pointed white cross (See S1). And also wore a kettle helm, but never a transitional helm (See S2). But other than that, they retained the same armour as a knight.

S1: Now, 1250's was the changeover from all wearing cappas, to knights & Priests only. Before 1250, it is assumed to identify a sergeant they always had a small white cross on their cappa, as well as different helm to the knights, while knights donned a large centred cross in transitional helms. So the new men would definitely wear a large centred cross of their surcoats, and others would keep their small white cross on their left shoulder of the surcoat as a sort of sign of respect and times. And did the same with their shields.

S2: The thing is, it's bloody hard as there are so few surviving records of sergeants; but what from we've got we can see that they didn't wear transitional helms, but kettle helms. Of course some of them would have only worn their mail coifs, as Kettles, mail and coif is alot of weight for your head. And also makes you very hot; so a few of them could have fought without them.

One thing that did bug me, was the Heater Shields that are used by the Knights Hospitaller, you've obviously just done the heraldic ones, but they never used their battle colours on their shields Until the reformation of around 1300s. Insead they'd use black with central white cross (Again see S1).

On your lances, they also used alot of pennons (Not swan tails (double pennons) often for royalty) instead of the big flag that could rival a standard flag. And also, would probably be beneficial to swap the lance banner to the other side, as most of the time you're trying to hit something or couch it, which would make it look more normal than an upside piece of cardboard :smile: Or potentially make it droop down so it looks like theirs no wind, and when you go to hit something it also looks like it's being blown by the wind.

Brown Cappas... That bugs me more than a cat hugging a dog. They believe a brown cappa was actually a faded black one, as in the Knights Hospitaller records there is absolutely no mention of a brown cappa; not even for our priests.

That's all I'll list for the moment. Sorry if it sounds like I'm being one of those annoying idiots :razz:
 
kuauik said:
i doubt there is error in uniforms,i researched the stuff for 3 years,believe me...the holdings of the lords are random on start of each campaign

Why are the holdings random?? They weren't in native (for me atleast).

And I'm not doubting your knowledge, but a man can spend his entire lifetime researching into something and he may of only scratched the surface of the knowledge available. I've actually studied Medieval Life-style (Common folk) And Knights Hospitaller for over two years (Don't keep track of days or the months :razz:) I truly love 1200's, best period for me; though tudors are quite interesting as well.
 
Arthur R. said:
I've actually studied Medieval Life-style (Common folk) And Knights Hospitaller for over two years

Always a pleasure to meet another person interested in history, which university did you study at?
 
I'm a Re-enactor that does intensive studies, and have probably wasted my lifes savings on books and copies of records (And shamefully archeology too..). Though you can only learn so much by looking at scribbles on paper, it's good to actually live it at places like Sherwood Forest, Rufford, and other extraordinary places; it helps put you in the right mind set (Especially being a brother in a hospice order), that religion was the major thing of life, everything you (they did) do revolves around religion; and even seating arrangements at daily meals. I find it much more relaxed and enjoyable than learning it from college or university; less pressure and stress. And it helps that our group has a collective knowledge and experience of over 400 years. But universities are great too for a piece of paper to show you what you already know :smile:
 
well i dont really care about the things you stated regarding the inacuraccy,its just the game and i had all the nations to research before create anything,i think i am well educated in medieval period and orders generaly.Let me point out some things you said:

A Brother-Knight-At-Arms would wear always wear a cappa (See K1), with a centred eight pointed white cross. And would not a Surcoat. They also wore Transitional Helms (Which there is figuratively none in the mod). Having their Utility belt to help hold up the cappa and relieve some of the weight of their hauberks, while their sword belt obviously only held the sword and scabbard. They wore three layers of protection; A Gambeson, Aketon and (Full length) Hauberk. And Mail mittens, Chausses, and coif  for limbs.
not true..brothers were issued to wear surcoat about the period we talking about,the cappa was resolved as non confortable in combat

While Brother-Sergeant-At-Arms would always wear a Surcoat, with a eight pointed white cross (See S1). And also wore a kettle helm, but never a transitional helm (See S2). But other than that, they retained the same armour as a knight.
not true...no evidence of this,also the sargeants were mostly equiped as a knights...i believe they are not wearing great helmets in da mod anyway

One thing that did bug me, was the Heater Shields that are used by the Knights Hospitaller, you've obviously just done the heraldic ones, but they never used their battle colours on their shields Until the reformation of around 1300s. Insead they'd use black with central white cross (Again see S1).
i did great research on this,because i am interested in heraldry of outremer,Hospitallers used red shields by 1257ad,on the matter of templars ,no evidence of sign on shileds,but probably black upper part and white bottom
Brown Cappas... That bugs me more than a cat hugging a dog. They believe a brown cappa was actually a faded black one, as in the Knights Hospitaller records there is absolutely no mention of a brown cappa; not even for our priests.
no evidence for that
You've not included Malta, which was an island of great importance to Sicily, muslims and the byzantine empire during the medieval era. To which was a practical trade port due to the islands location. (Then was given to Knights Hospitaller in 1500's :3)
there cant be more settlements due to lag on campaign map
 
kuauik said:
Brown Cappas... That bugs me more than a cat hugging a dog. They believe a brown cappa was actually a faded black one, as in the Knights Hospitaller records there is absolutely no mention of a brown cappa; not even for our priests.
no evidence for that

No evidence for a brown cappa other than depictions. No records or mention of a brown cappa in Knights Hospitallers records, and the Knights Hospitaller had pretty much the best records of the century.
 
Cozur said:
Arthur R. said:
But universities are great too for a piece of paper to show you what you already know :smile:

Just gonna let this statement speak for itself.

You only need the piece of paper if you're interested in a career in history. I study it as a hobby and a pastime; nothing wrong with that. If you have one great, if not who cares? It's just a piece of paper.
 
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