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Constructive Criticisms
- 主题发起人 KhergitLancer80
- 开始时间
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Ki-Ok Khan
https://www.facebook.com/kate.rendell/videos/10207108910379126/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOjL_C1A5NQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QLpYDQ0FSA
People deflecting arrows. Keep in mind , it is not gonna be something that will not be applied to all shots. perhaps 1 in 500 chance and where an arrow is coming directly at you.
Also , keep in mind that it is SP only as you wont have max 2h skills since you are one of the soldiers from the skill tree. who do not have max skills.
Do not want it? do not pick that perk. simple as that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOjL_C1A5NQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QLpYDQ0FSA
People deflecting arrows. Keep in mind , it is not gonna be something that will not be applied to all shots. perhaps 1 in 500 chance and where an arrow is coming directly at you.
Also , keep in mind that it is SP only as you wont have max 2h skills since you are one of the soldiers from the skill tree. who do not have max skills.
Do not want it? do not pick that perk. simple as that.
I really hope this arrow deflecting thing is not random chance. Such mechanics have no place in M&B combat. It should be 100% based on the player's timing.
I'm not sure that adding perks was a good idea to begin with.
1. Quests aren't everything in the early game. You can't base the variety just on how many quests there are. Ultimately you can't avoid having quests follow a couple of formulas in a game like this, although adding random twists would be cool.
Overall I think the stuff you can do in the demo is less repetitive than in most open world games.
2 . It's to be expected that the AI might mess up in a demo like this. In many ways it is a pretty big step up from WB though.
3. This is of course a simple balancing issue. Definitely is a bit silly though.
4. Agreed, some more variety would be good.
5. Sorry, but you're straight up wrong on both counts. As others have said, bleeding from blunt impact can happen quite easily. Just watch an MMA fight or so. Even a padded glove can make your face bleed.
As for steel weapons, this is also realistic, at least for swords.
A wooden waster like the ones in Warband is actually really dangerous. They're kinda like baseball bats.
A blunt/edgeless steel sword is a lot safer. They can be made flexible to make thrusting safer, and because they're balanced like real swords, they don't deliver nearly as hard of a blunt impact as a wooden waster.
Steel swords/feders are used in HEMA for a good reason.
I'm not sure that adding perks was a good idea to begin with.
1. Quests aren't everything in the early game. You can't base the variety just on how many quests there are. Ultimately you can't avoid having quests follow a couple of formulas in a game like this, although adding random twists would be cool.
Overall I think the stuff you can do in the demo is less repetitive than in most open world games.
2 . It's to be expected that the AI might mess up in a demo like this. In many ways it is a pretty big step up from WB though.
3. This is of course a simple balancing issue. Definitely is a bit silly though.
4. Agreed, some more variety would be good.
5. Sorry, but you're straight up wrong on both counts. As others have said, bleeding from blunt impact can happen quite easily. Just watch an MMA fight or so. Even a padded glove can make your face bleed.
As for steel weapons, this is also realistic, at least for swords.
A wooden waster like the ones in Warband is actually really dangerous. They're kinda like baseball bats.
A blunt/edgeless steel sword is a lot safer. They can be made flexible to make thrusting safer, and because they're balanced like real swords, they don't deliver nearly as hard of a blunt impact as a wooden waster.
Steel swords/feders are used in HEMA for a good reason.
FBohler 说:
Yeah, and also its a demo.
Can we hold out disappoint till release? because in the interview he literally said that all they have done is the early game, and they still need to finish mid game and late game.
I was pretty impressed, and because they made the smart move to not pick a date to release, i can only imagine how much time they are going to spend on tweaking the game making the exact changes you all are wanting.
One video I saw part of, without sound. I noticed as the player fought desert bandits, his infantry were cut down, both of them. So it was only the player left and a few bandits. Instead of routing from a 1v1, the sole surviving bandit came around to keep fighting the player and both on horseback in bouts of a cat-and-mouse fight.KhergitLancer80 说:
Here is the video and timestamped, when the player's infantry was about to be killed almost offscreen
Of course, this specific fight did not have surviving player infantry at the end, but the bandit's morale had to be high enough to fight until the end. Despite the AI standing ground, it must've either frustrated the player for time or he ran out of time to keep recording.
My main disappointent concerned the graphical downgrade, but then the devs said it was only to optimize the demo (source). It's reassuring, but let's hope they succeed in optimizing the graphical features they disabled.
Otherwise some details that I already pointed out:
Didn't notice it. Hope it will be fixed.
Otherwise some details that I already pointed out:
- Swords with too long grips and still held at the pommel (and again I know this holding might have existed, but it was definitely not the most common)
- Unrealistic blood splashes and stains (on the ground - too large and bright). I would prefer the huge splashes to be rarer and only provoked by major blows
- Unbearable groans during battle and 'Hollywoodian' warcries
- Water too plain, especially the sea
- Props' indoors lightings, too bright
- Still those ridiculous multiple hits
- Some unrealistic pseudo 'cool' ragdoll dead animations
- AI showing no major differences with Warband
Didn't notice it. Hope it will be fixed.
Lets asume the demo at gamescom 2018 is the release
1. Ai of enemy troops are way to dumb, especially looters who stops in front of you and throw rocks instead take out your weapon and club you to death
2. Sturgia: seems like this faction is now 95% norse and 5% slavic. seriosly cant stand those vikangz hype. the slavs has much more of culture and interesting armors/architecture etc.
3. village/castle mechanics. Right now it seems castles are stand alone fiefs with the same old few options like in warband instead beeing a part of a village etc. pp. Castles now seems again waste of time and money.
4. Lords don't have titles and strange names. Instead of Count Klargus, Count Haringoth, etc. we got lords with short and strange names (see bannerlord 2018 stream videos)
5. 1h perks are like 50% something with XP related. generally the perksystem looks good but many perks are just WRONG
6. seriously, why this norse love? is it because of skyrim people or "vikings" tv show?
1. Ai of enemy troops are way to dumb, especially looters who stops in front of you and throw rocks instead take out your weapon and club you to death
2. Sturgia: seems like this faction is now 95% norse and 5% slavic. seriosly cant stand those vikangz hype. the slavs has much more of culture and interesting armors/architecture etc.
3. village/castle mechanics. Right now it seems castles are stand alone fiefs with the same old few options like in warband instead beeing a part of a village etc. pp. Castles now seems again waste of time and money.
4. Lords don't have titles and strange names. Instead of Count Klargus, Count Haringoth, etc. we got lords with short and strange names (see bannerlord 2018 stream videos)
5. 1h perks are like 50% something with XP related. generally the perksystem looks good but many perks are just WRONG
6. seriously, why this norse love? is it because of skyrim people or "vikings" tv show?
I like to remid that you have achance to block an arrow and it is the last perk so you have to work really hard to unlock it. Yeah, It should be depending on player skill after unlocking but even after you have done everything right, there must be a chance to get hit by it. This way is immersive for me in singleplayer.
Thanks for such a thread KhergitLancer80, it is really important to sort a constructive criticism out of a simple whining.
On a subject:
Agreed with pretty much all of the above. Some things I have spotted on top of that:
1) Notables' faces are randomly generated in every playthrough. They shouldn't be. Ransom brookers, tavern keepers, judges etc may but not named ones.We should be able to remember their faces to use then in memes it decreases their unique personality which is important for roleplaying. If you don't want to waste time creating 4-6 unique faces per village (there are more than 200 villages) then just randomize them with that button but please keep them constant.
2) In some of the past articles I remember you said no more cattle quests as they were annoying in warband. What if I told you that troop training quest beats it like 3 times in this matter. Don't get me wrong - the idea itself is interesting, it just was (and I bet still is) extremely unrewarding. The amount of money received will of course cover their upgrade cost but who cares - the effort itself results in some pathetic 1-3 relationship points that I could get by completing much more easier quest which makes me to save scum immidiately after getting the first dialogue of this one. Possible soutions: significantly increase the reward (min +10 relationship if all troops are returned alive) or add an option to offer some of your troops of the same tier instead, because all questgiver wants is to power-up his army so any skilled warriors should do the job, he still gives you recruits but it will prevent you from worrying about them being killed
3) Perks. The idea is brilliant. The fact you need to choose is welcome. The effects of some are just wrong. For example Crossbow skill makes xbows reload faster and there we got two(!) perks that do exactly the same. Why? Perks should add bonuses and abilities which can't be achieved with increasing the skill itself. Regarding crossbows it could be higher damage to shields or slightly penetrating them, a chance to knock down a target with successful shot if its not a mount, a slowdown effect when shoot in the leg etc, lots of possibilities either than 2% or 3 point to some value. Come on, make it worthy the choice
4) What happened to camp option? its not a complaint actually, I just want to know if we can still rest while not in town, read books etc (some mods have added plenty of nice options there)
5) Battle sounds really need polishing, in all cases.
6) Troops with ranged weapons don't change them in melee for some reason, in one of videos bunch of looters surrounded a crossbowman for like 5 seconds and he was still trying to shoot them with crossbow
7) Please reconsider the amount of dust taking up after steps so chicken couldn't charge with a power of horse, thanks.
Nevertheless I loved 90% of what I've seen these few days, keep up your great work, take any time you need and best of luck to you guys. Cheers
On a subject:
Agreed with pretty much all of the above. Some things I have spotted on top of that:
1) Notables' faces are randomly generated in every playthrough. They shouldn't be. Ransom brookers, tavern keepers, judges etc may but not named ones.
2) In some of the past articles I remember you said no more cattle quests as they were annoying in warband. What if I told you that troop training quest beats it like 3 times in this matter. Don't get me wrong - the idea itself is interesting, it just was (and I bet still is) extremely unrewarding. The amount of money received will of course cover their upgrade cost but who cares - the effort itself results in some pathetic 1-3 relationship points that I could get by completing much more easier quest which makes me to save scum immidiately after getting the first dialogue of this one. Possible soutions: significantly increase the reward (min +10 relationship if all troops are returned alive) or add an option to offer some of your troops of the same tier instead, because all questgiver wants is to power-up his army so any skilled warriors should do the job, he still gives you recruits but it will prevent you from worrying about them being killed
3) Perks. The idea is brilliant. The fact you need to choose is welcome. The effects of some are just wrong. For example Crossbow skill makes xbows reload faster and there we got two(!) perks that do exactly the same. Why? Perks should add bonuses and abilities which can't be achieved with increasing the skill itself. Regarding crossbows it could be higher damage to shields or slightly penetrating them, a chance to knock down a target with successful shot if its not a mount, a slowdown effect when shoot in the leg etc, lots of possibilities either than 2% or 3 point to some value. Come on, make it worthy the choice
4) What happened to camp option? its not a complaint actually, I just want to know if we can still rest while not in town, read books etc (some mods have added plenty of nice options there)
5) Battle sounds really need polishing, in all cases.
6) Troops with ranged weapons don't change them in melee for some reason, in one of videos bunch of looters surrounded a crossbowman for like 5 seconds and he was still trying to shoot them with crossbow
7) Please reconsider the amount of dust taking up after steps so chicken couldn't charge with a power of horse, thanks.
Nevertheless I loved 90% of what I've seen these few days, keep up your great work, take any time you need and best of luck to you guys. Cheers
Ki-Ok Khan 说:
If you watch to the end, Skallagrim names the inaccuracies of the experiment himself. It's a low poundage bow, the arrows are heavier and less aerodynamic than usual, and it's a fixed setup where he knows what to expect. He still only hits a fraction of the arrows. In actual battle this shouldn't happen, except by sheer luck.
Still, this together with the area damage feature indicates that they felt they had to make two-handed weapons more powerful. I couldn't say whether this assessment is correct, but if so, I wish they had found a more believable way to do it. So I'm actually a bit disappointed in that.
...
And now I'm over it.
Ummm yeah... Jedis in Calradia shouldn't be a thing
Another thing, in the current troop tree the Vlandians seem to have crossbowmen only and no archers. That would be a shame. Surely it wouldn't hurt to give them both?
John C 说:
*glares angrily in Swadian*
Apparently some people didn't understand KhergitLancer's OP. This is not a thread to bash the game in its current state, it is meant to show TaleWorlds directly concerns/bugs/problems we have about current state of the demo, that are possibly making their way into the release version. It is a great thread, by the way, thank you.
About quests: I do not mind generic quests, nor do I mind the old ones coming into bannerlord, it makes sense, and it is a nice ode to the original. I believe they only added basic quests to the demo to not spoil the new ones (there's only a finite number of new quests they can come up with and make happen), and also to keep gameplay simple and understandable for newcomers (the testing guys) and for us to see how it is working.
My concerns are pretty much related to what everyone has said before, other than quests, so I'll not repeat myself as others have put forth good arguments.
My biggest disappointment was the one-handed animations - it clearly shows they were made to look obvious, but they seem too robotic. Walking I didn't love, but it didn't bother me either. Maybe adding more walking animations instead of just replacing it? That ought to give plenty of diversity, making the game livelier.
Also general animations looked a bit awkward in the sense that legs were always too spread out, and walking looked a bit strange, it may have to do with the skeleton positioning so it clips less with armor. It's not a disappointment, just a concern really.
The skill system looks incredible, even if it looks like "The Elder Scrolls" skill system, it has a (changeable) focus points bonus, so I believe that balances it nicely. My concern is with perks, but I will not delve into it because most looked like placeholders perks, not release-worthy.
I absolutely loved the overall look of the game, and all the concerns exposed here are extremely valid points for TaleWorlds to look into. I am far too tired to go on any longer, but I may think of something else later on.
Edit: I forgot about one thing: loading times. Some loading times seemed excrutiatingly long, I'm not sure if it is because of settings, hardware, or if it is the sheer amount of stuff in scenes and loading equipment for battles. Perhaps it's the huge textures to load... I'm not sure they could still develop a different loading technique (something such as loading the stuff near the character first, and while in the scene, loading the rest of it).
A sort of solution would be to add specific configurations for qualities of textures, instead of a general quality for the whole game - selecting the quality of textures for Characters (clothes, skin and weapons), Terrain, Buildings, what nots... So that you can have lower scene textures to load faster, but heavier textures for weapons, armors and characters, so you still have a good experience, instead of being forced into a medium texture for everything.
About quests: I do not mind generic quests, nor do I mind the old ones coming into bannerlord, it makes sense, and it is a nice ode to the original. I believe they only added basic quests to the demo to not spoil the new ones (there's only a finite number of new quests they can come up with and make happen), and also to keep gameplay simple and understandable for newcomers (the testing guys) and for us to see how it is working.
My concerns are pretty much related to what everyone has said before, other than quests, so I'll not repeat myself as others have put forth good arguments.
My biggest disappointment was the one-handed animations - it clearly shows they were made to look obvious, but they seem too robotic. Walking I didn't love, but it didn't bother me either. Maybe adding more walking animations instead of just replacing it? That ought to give plenty of diversity, making the game livelier.
Also general animations looked a bit awkward in the sense that legs were always too spread out, and walking looked a bit strange, it may have to do with the skeleton positioning so it clips less with armor. It's not a disappointment, just a concern really.
The skill system looks incredible, even if it looks like "The Elder Scrolls" skill system, it has a (changeable) focus points bonus, so I believe that balances it nicely. My concern is with perks, but I will not delve into it because most looked like placeholders perks, not release-worthy.
I absolutely loved the overall look of the game, and all the concerns exposed here are extremely valid points for TaleWorlds to look into. I am far too tired to go on any longer, but I may think of something else later on.
Edit: I forgot about one thing: loading times. Some loading times seemed excrutiatingly long, I'm not sure if it is because of settings, hardware, or if it is the sheer amount of stuff in scenes and loading equipment for battles. Perhaps it's the huge textures to load... I'm not sure they could still develop a different loading technique (something such as loading the stuff near the character first, and while in the scene, loading the rest of it).
A sort of solution would be to add specific configurations for qualities of textures, instead of a general quality for the whole game - selecting the quality of textures for Characters (clothes, skin and weapons), Terrain, Buildings, what nots... So that you can have lower scene textures to load faster, but heavier textures for weapons, armors and characters, so you still have a good experience, instead of being forced into a medium texture for everything.
My biggest issue is the AI in combat. It's like they got a downgrade, but then again they could be turned way down in difficulty for demo and we only saw a bunch of tiny bandit fights with no leaders or anything. I hate to admit that they were reeeaaaally bad.
I would say the repetitiveness is an issue, but im 99% sure it's mostly because they removed a lot for the demo. I mean there was what, 3 quests, maybe a few more? All of which revolved around fighting tiny groups of bandits except the caravan one fighting like 30 bandits, but still all really low tier units on the field. I never saw anyone actually do the trial by combat one.
Not really any other complaints. Some minor graphical bugs but i never care about graphics anyway.
I would say the repetitiveness is an issue, but im 99% sure it's mostly because they removed a lot for the demo. I mean there was what, 3 quests, maybe a few more? All of which revolved around fighting tiny groups of bandits except the caravan one fighting like 30 bandits, but still all really low tier units on the field. I never saw anyone actually do the trial by combat one.
Not really any other complaints. Some minor graphical bugs but i never care about graphics anyway.
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