Constructive Criticisms

[KhergitLancer80]

This topic shall be about our disappointments from what we have seen in gamescom this year.
Now, dont get me wrong I am not disappointed, in fact the opposite I am more than happy with what I have seen, good job TW the game looks very beautiful and great.
But of course for the sake of being constructive this topic is needed.
Now I will order my complaints/disappointments from most disappointing to most nitpicky.

1- Early game missions being repetitive.
Yes, this is probably my biggest disappointment by far. It was a huge problem in Warband and unfortunately from what I have seen it is still a huge problem in bannerlord. Of course things will change if TW say they didnt include every mission for the demo. What have we seen ? A mission about killing 3 looter parties / A mission about aiding a caravan / A mission about trial by combat / troop training
and maybe 1 or 2 more that I dont remember, probably attacking hideout or bounty hunting.
When they said there will be narrative stories, plot twists etc. tbh I expected more. The only mission I found interesting was the trial by combat mission.

2-AI
Now, I liked the new AI, it is certainly a lot better than Warband, I actually even wowed when an npc grabbed a weapon from the ground but there were still some things that irritated me. For example in one guys video he attacked to a desert bandit party and slaughtered all their infantry, his troops were also infantry and there was only one mounted bandit left. Why didnt he just rout ? He went back and forth and tried to go through the infantry until he got killed.
Some disappointments about routing troops as well, they should have fought back when we reached them, especially when we are cavalry and they are infantry.
Or at least they should have begged for mercy and drop their weapon or sth.
3- Arrow Damages I did not like how Alijin wasnt able to kill some bandits/looters even though she shot them from naked body more than once and even one survived after a headshot.
4- Generic Bandit Line:
I did not like how bandits/looters always say you wont capture us alive. That should only be the case when we are obviously superior to them. Alijin and one troop with her attack to a numerically a way superior bandit/looter party they say ''you wont capture us alive'', they should be greedy, maybe sth like ''haha you fool you walked to your own doom/death'' Maybe even some sexual assaults if the character is female like we will rape you etc. Game takes place in medieval times it doesnt have to be lovely.

5-Blood and Real Weapons in Tournaments
The title already speaks for itself. Even Warband had wooden weapons in tournaments what happened to those ? Also please lower or in fact disable the blood in tournaments.
Also why do stones make blood when they hit ? A stone wont make you bleed unless it is sharp, which isnt the case for bannerlord stones/rocks. They may leave bruises but no bleeding, pls fix.
6-More Scenes For Bandit Hideouts
This can also be because of the demo limitations, a player attacked desert bandit hideouts twice or sth and both were the same scenes.

 

[Phalnax811]

1. I assume more will be added or weren't ready yet or too complex to have a demo. Or maybe, harder quests are unlocked as you gain Rep with that NPC or gain Renown...aka they'll trust you more to accomplish something harder.

2. It would be cool if routing enemies surrendered on their knees and dropped weapons if you surround them before they exit the map.

3. Yeah, shirtless nobody's should be one-shot-able but maybe not immediately. After some skills level'd up, sure. Bow may be weak, arrow not crafted well, too weak to pull back the string all the way...So, maybe if the bow does over 50 damage to a shirtless body or someone wearing cloth, yeah I'd think insta-kill.

4. They probably want to avoid an M rating...but yeah, some creativity would help immersion.

5. Agree but a stone can easily make you bleed...unless you're wearing armor.

6. Would be nice if there were at least 2 bandit scenes per locale. Each one could have a chest of gold or extra food or a prisoner to free that would join you in the fight somewhere

 

[aekilju]

Sounds like player built castles were scrapped.

https://youtu.be/16_V30SIFQE?t=5h37m46s

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

All games have some flaws, is normally because not reflect stupid reality

 

[CaptainLee]

No major disappointments game-wise but there's a few preferences-

1/ The campaign map gives you the exact numbers of groups. Why is this? Putting aside the realism argument ('there's exactly thirty of them sire, five miles away!'), surely it would be more exciting to not know the exact number. Taking Heroes of Might and Magic's cue, why not have a basic description of numbers e.g-

Few 1-4
Several 5-9
Pack 10-19
Lots 20-49
Horde 50-99
Throng 100-249
Swarm 250-499
Zounds 500-999
Legion 1000+

That at least might add some tension and cut out the dead-cert battles. Perhaps points in skills in tracking ('advanced scouts' perk, perhaps) helping you determine numbers?

2/ Totally subjective but I'd really like weapon and armour to be damaged after a fight (or maybe a few fights) and need repairing at a blacksmith. I would prefer to have to wear the armour I have that is in best condition, even if it gives lower protection than a damaged higher stat set. A reduction in overall condition after repair as well so after so many battles it's time to discard it. 

 

[HUMMAN]

i am dissapointed in some aspects, but remembering it is a demo they may not wanted to include somethings. Like scenes basic quests and fights, which is ok but i thought it would be a demo of a full game, so some misunderstanding. I dont have any major dissappointments but i am confused. Like they show stuff like hideouts, arena is it because they were in Warband and hide other things for suprise or they dont have anything? Like other parties like us, just travelling and doing something. We know minor factions which was not in map, which is exciting for sure. So that is one hided major feature for now. Also regarding interactions, i think crime is forbidden too. Armagan bey said it i think. But even when you hit civilians in cities; no death means no guards means no public crime. I would like to stay in  a dungeon for a while, or make secret assasin quests, like kill the men of sigmund the lizard etc. Maybe there are, may be there are not thats why i am confused, maybe Armagan Bey dont know it too. But the features they show signs they care about the game, i really liked city designs and life out there, or perks or character traits, or family system. One thing i would like to see in demo's how players trade, but i did not saw anyone doing it so damn! In Warband it was very easy to profit, a new mechanic like tariff is needed. Now imagine smugglers, banned products, relation with lords, city notables; and quests; things get excited and trading requires some strategy and investment in other things rather than only money.
About AI, i think its really hard to make a good AI and i am afraid game will be always be felt like playing in stupid-repetitive world after a point. But we still loved Warband, so there is that. Thats the inherit problem of sand-box. Even strategy games mostly have a bad AI, lol i think they may even have  a hard time doing a good AI for these mini games.

 

[lolbash]

I have my dissapointments too

-Horse archer AI still stupid. They run inside enemy blobs while shooting arrows and get killed.

-What happened to the Captain System? The AI needed smart AI Captains to lead troops make formations and control movement but we saw none of that and its still the same charge mindless until their deaths

-Perks are stupid. If we can deflect arrows with two handed weapons it should be with intense training and player skill, not limited by a passive ability in a perk.

-Why can't we join battles on any side? If I want to raid caravans I should not need to lower relations with a faction first. I want to help the bandits and join them.

-Quests are not as open ended as I expected. For example in the quest where the player can help a village save a caravan from a bandit attack and is given a militia to help, I do not see an option to betray the village. I do not see the option to say to the quest giver's face that "The accused is guilty and you are an idiot" and lose relationship in exchange for favors from the opposing party.

These are my complaints so far, hope Taleworlds considers our complaints.

 

[Yurek]

1- Early game missions being repetitive.
Yes, this is probably my biggest disappointment by far. It was a huge problem in Warband and unfortunately from what I have seen it is still a huge problem in bannerlord. Of course things will change if TW say they didnt include every mission for the demo. What have we seen ? A mission about killing 3 looter parties / A mission about aiding a caravan / A mission about trial by combat / troop training
and maybe 1 or 2 more that I dont remember, probably attacking hideout or bounty hunting.
When they said there will be narrative stories, plot twists etc. tbh I expected more. The only mission I found interesting was the trial by combat mission.

Like Phalnax said, some more complex quests were likely cut from the demo, they likely want to save some as a surprise. However I do hope there's plenty of basic quests that don't purely focus on combat, such as quests that include complex trading, crafting, or using the charm/rouge skill.

I think my main criticism is with the tournaments.

There's great new quality of life additions such as the UI and atmosphere of the arena but the foundation is still rotten. No matter the culture, being thrown in a ring with randomised weapons and mounts is just disappointing.

I'd like to see different tourney traditions for each culture.
The ability to choose your kit (and maybe even use your own in high ranked matches).
Variation of match types. Team Brawl / Duels / Archery Target Shooting / Jousting or Lancing / Fisticuffs?

 

[Whatever makes you happy]

1. Yeah this is a fear of mine to. I like the trial by combat and the caravan mission showed us some new features (villages having their own militia, different parties being assigned to your care) but I don'ymt think we got much else. I'm sure there's more than what was shown but repetitiveness in general is a concern.

2. I don't expect perfect AI from a game that puts this many bots on the screen at once. My only hope is that lords behave in unique and interesting ways and are better at keeping themselves alive  Having a rival Lord always be one of the first to fall in battles isn't fun. Taking them out should feel like an achievement

3.The excuse would be that she's low level with low level arrows but personally I think people took to long to die in general. Warband was more punishing to player and bot alike.

4. It's because they're looters. Looters always act inferior.

5. More violent time period I guess

Also stones make you bleed. Especially if you get hit in the face. Actually know this from experience believe it or not.

6- I hope we get more as well. Warband only had one per region so it's a genuine concern. Hideouts should be more varied. Hopefully they are.

I do not see an option to betray the village. I do not see the option to say to the quest giver's face that "The accused is guilty and you are an idiot" and lose relationship in exchange for favors from the opposing party.

These are my complaints so far, hope Taleworlds considers our complaints.

This one's actually there. You can speak to the accuser who offers you money to relinquish your pledge.

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

I not care so much for AI because in games with hundreds of men in battles making a competent AI is most hardest thing for devs. I prefer sincerely genre of games mentioned rather RPGs as The Witcher 3 and KCD

 

[stevehoos]

The quests are really lacking in depth, I can deal with everything else. I can't train troops for a lord ever again.

We can't upgrade villages to castles anymore? No wonder this game is taking almost a decade, they keep changing everything. 2016 was Bannerlord 1, now it's 2018's version.

 

[lolbash]

I not care so much for AI because in games with hundreds of men in battles making a competent AI is most hardest thing for devs. I prefer sincerely genre of games mentioned rather RPGs as The Witcher 3 and KCD

I don't expect perfect AI from a game that puts this many bots on the screen at once. My only hope is that lords behave in unique and interesting ways and are better at keeping themselves alive  Having a rival Lord always be one of the first to fall in battles isn't fun. Taking them out should feel like an achievement

The AI can be easily fixed to be smarter and more challenging to fight and give lords more importance without sacrificing CPU resource with a Captain Mode system.

The Theory goes like this:

Instead of giving the smart AI to each and every individual soldier on the battlefield, you give it to the Captains, or one AI bot that controls a portion of an army. This way instead of having 800 smart bots in a scene eating CPU resources and slowing your PC down, you reduce the number to 12 bots who will be ordering the troops around and setting up formations and tactics, and have the rest of the bots be dumb combat bots who are following simple commands from the Captains.

This solution will still allow for advanced manuevers like flanking tactics and defensive formations, and give companions and AI lords even more important presence on the battlefield, as they are controlling the tide of the battles. I do not see a downside other than more time to code on the Developer end. It is everything you want in a perfect package.

Which is why I was looking foward to the Captain System to see the advanced AI in action, only to find that it is not presented in the Demo and experience dissapointment.

 

[578]

1) Shield bash is spammable. This is a worry for multiplayer.

2) Animations are clunky and lack passion in combat.

3) AI seems bad in many cases.

4) Quests seem repeatative.

7) Τhe perks seem really strange. While a good mechanic overall, I dont understand how one handed can make you get more troops from villages or boost morale.

Looters seem awfully easy, they should be medium difficulty for a new player.

9) Νot sure if this WIP or not, but in the encyclopaedia, many high tier troops have really plain clothing.

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

Smarter thing with Captain Mode, but advanced AI means as average player will defeated, for me will be more strategy(I am pleased by Warband and I wait Bannerlord too) this is just a demo

 

[Lemondude]

In regard to the AI captain system. Looters and bandits aren't really expected to use formations or any kind of tactics - they are disorganized rabble.

I think the AI captain system will be more prominent in the mid to late stages of the game (with lords and armies). And as we heard they are still working on the mid to late stages.

That being said - maybe they have overlooked it, which would be a disappointment.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

This perk mechanic might be interesting but I agree with 578.
Some things should be left to player skill rather than ''perked''.

I am fine with the ''increasing the shields protection area'' as a 1h perk but ''deflecting arrows with a 2h'' ehm... WHAT !!!!
IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE IRL ?

Taleworlds please immediately exclude that perk it is not good at all.

 

[Ki-Ok Khan]

This perk mechanic might be interesting but I agree with 578.
Some things should be left to player skill rather than ''perked''.

I am fine with the ''increasing the shields protection area'' as a 1h perk but ''deflecting arrows with a 2h'' ehm... WHAT !!!!
IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE IRL ?

Taleworlds please immediately exclude that perk it is not good at all.

yes it is possible.it is also possible that an arrow is just gonna happen to hit your sword.

 

[HUMMAN]

I like that a bit heroism. 2h was not common anyway, some strong berserkers deflecting arrows is cool. Also since many people are controversial, splash damage can be made a perk too.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

This perk mechanic might be interesting but I agree with 578.
Some things should be left to player skill rather than ''perked''.

I am fine with the ''increasing the shields protection area'' as a 1h perk but ''deflecting arrows with a 2h'' ehm... WHAT !!!!
IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE IRL ?

Taleworlds please immediately exclude that perk it is not good at all.

yes it is possible.it is also possible that an arrow is just gonna happen to hit your sword.

Maybe, but I still want this to be excluded, I have read all the perks and this is the only one that I have problem with.
If such thing is going to happen at least it shall be completely physical and skill or luck based, what I mean player must be supposed to counter the arrow perfectly with his sword which is in the defend position so that it can deflect it.


Because this perk will either change the movement of the arrow or the position of the player's sword by force. Both sounds inconvenient to me.

 

[Revverie]

This perk mechanic might be interesting but I agree with 578.
Some things should be left to player skill rather than ''perked''.

I am fine with the ''increasing the shields protection area'' as a 1h perk but ''deflecting arrows with a 2h'' ehm... WHAT !!!!
IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE IRL ?

Taleworlds please immediately exclude that perk it is not good at all.

I don't want to bring this discussion back in the board but who cares about realism, I'm trying to play a game, not a literal medieval war, I'm all in for covering arrows. Also Aragon could deflect a knife and that scene was not planned like that, the actor actually covered himself, I think it can work in a videogame