Consider: Post Release.

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Warband having been put to consoles and the likelihood of the same thing happening to Bannerlord

They put zero effort into the console release for warband, and it barely sold. The xbox part of this forum is full of people saying how the multiplayer is full of bots and hackers, how there are constant crashes, multiple features don't work, and the performance is bad. The console board moderator even told people straight up not to buy it.

As much as Taleworlds is a trendchasing company nowadays I really don't think the radial menu is intrinsically a console thing, nor is reduced complexity in game mechanics. Plenty of PC only games in recent years have been going on that trajectory because that's what the game psychologist journals tell them is effective. Anyway, in many ways bannerlord is a lot more complex than warband, with an esoteric leveling system I still don't really get, a hypercomplex combat system that literally nobody outside the company truly understands, and a food / garrison / siege system that I actually think could be good and that warband was missing. It's just that most of this complexity is on the edges of how most people interact with the game.
 

AJAJP_Juan

Knight at Arms
They put zero effort into the console release for warband, and it barely sold. The xbox part of this forum is full of people saying how the multiplayer is full of bots and hackers, how there are constant crashes, multiple features don't work, and the performance is bad. The console board moderator even told people straight up not to buy it.

As much as Taleworlds is a trendchasing company nowadays I really don't think the radial menu is intrinsically a console thing, nor is reduced complexity in game mechanics. Plenty of PC only games in recent years have been going on that trajectory because that's what the game psychologist journals tell them is effective. Anyway, in many ways bannerlord is a lot more complex than warband, with an esoteric leveling system I still don't really get, a hypercomplex combat system that literally nobody outside the company truly understands, and a food / garrison / siege system that I actually think could be good and that warband was missing. It's just that most of this complexity is on the edges of how most people interact with the game.

Bannerlord apologist detected
 
I already did that my friend, yet you are here wasting your time on messaging me while I was specifically talking to @stevehoos.
If you had remotely a glimpse of good intention, you could easily get my last messages or/and search by yourself using your browser since the thread was, as I said a week or so ago.
No you didn't, because somehow you all of a sudden missed that part to write your rant.

How dare I intervene on this public thread posted in General Discussion.
All jokes aside, you’re putting the ball in my court, asking me to research your last messages up until a week ago (or so). I could easily put down a uno reverse card and ask you to investigate into further arguments using that same search command. See how incredible lazy that is? We could close down the general discussion area and just ask users to use the search command, since everything’s been said already.

It makes for great discussions!
My previous statement on big-boy pants still stands.
 

SOku

Veteran
The very first thing I said on my message was :
Do you want to redo the debate we've just done a week ago already ?
And then you are, discarding titbits of my sentence litterally stating that I DID debate earlier on that subject just to complain for the pleasure to do so.
See, you got everything you need on my link I edited on the bottom of my message, I linked the context and even linked further messages I found revelant I've made earlier from that discussion.

So yeah I'm a little big triggered that you intervene on a discussion while I do know that this user was on that thread, I assumed that he had read what I had to say and for some reasons you decided to gate-keep it because you thought it would be more mature to ask me for the nth times to elaborate an already elaborated thought, all of that packed with a passive-agressive stance.

That's it.
Context is not an option on the internets, I assume if you want to intervene in a discussion to do at least a minimum of research before going on your high horse.
I mean have a look at your message really, it adds nothing but bloat to the discussion, it goes without saying that it's not inviting people to link revelant pieces of informations with this attitude.

Mine isn't that white tho, I agree with that.


Now please stop the personal attacks and stick to the point, because you got a lot to read I guess, for someone who was desperately in need to see my take on this, yet you are still here to complain about silly things. Have a good one !
 
The very first thing I said on my message was :
Do you want to redo the debate we've just done a week ago already ?
And then you are, discarding titbits of my sentence litterally stating that I DID debate earlier on that subject just to complain for the pleasure to do so.
See, you got everything you need on my link I edited on the bottom of my message, I linked the context and even linked further messages I found revelant I've made earlier from that discussion.

So yeah I'm a little big triggered that you intervene on a discussion while I do know that this user was on that thread, I assumed that he had read what I had to say and for some reasons you decided to gate-keep it because you thought it would be more mature to ask me for the nth times to elaborate an already elaborated thought, all of that packed with a passive-agressive stance.

That's it.
Context is not an option on the internets, I assume if you want to intervene in a discussion to do at least a minimum of research before going on your high horse.
I mean have a look at your message really, it adds nothing but bloat to the discussion, it goes without saying that it's not inviting people to link revelant pieces of informations with this attitude.

Mine isn't that white tho, I agree with that.

You're not happy with a passive-aggresive stance... And dont want to redo a debate...

Yes you're confirming my point earlier, a freaking UI change as a piece of evidence, really ? :smile: Are you joking or something ?
With that in mind, could you elaborate your thoughts further ? This is the exact same debate that happened in another thread, for some reasons past the UI rant nobody could explain me why they logically think the shalowness of that game was magically because of a console port.
And you were on that thread.

I agree the debate isn't starting very well for you if you think you made good logical points above.

I didnt even have to look at your profile history to contradict this. You've done it yourself, just a page earlier.
 

SOku

Veteran
Are you @stevehoos or something ?
I asked him a question, not to you. A question not a negation.
Now you got to answer for this user ?
As I said he was on that thread and I assume knows and read the debate, that's it.

Why do you stretch all of my sentences like that ? What's your purpose ?
 
Are you @stevehoos or something ?
I asked him a question, not to you. A question not a negation.
Now you got to answer for this user ?
As I said he was on that thread and I assume knows and read the debate, that's it.

Why do you stretch all of my sentences like that ? What's your purpose ?

Aww pal, dont revert back to the "I wasnt talking to you". If you wanted to stick with that you shouldn't have replied when I called you out on your provocative "u dumb, try harder, hehe" post.

You very clearly were discontent with the UI change as "evidence" and passively-aggressive asked for further elaboration, opening a debate without providing any counterarguments.
A debate isn't one-sided, you got a standpoint and the opposition has a standpoint. You try to convince the other of your own.

But you didnt and obviously dont want to.
So what's your purpose?
 
Not mentioning that, as I said on the other thread, the Interface on that game is far from being UX friendly. The Encyclopedia is rough for any newcomer on the series
This is a fair argument @Lord Grindelvald, even if he wasn't directly using it as counter-evidence, it most definitely serves as one equal, or even greater than the radial UI argument.

Honestly though, if not for console, I'd just say that TW is really conforming to the journalist type 1h cuphead tutorial people with the direction this game is going. At this point in development, that's their choice and we have very little power to alter it. Look at this message from mexxico:
That kind of detailed micromanagement is not welcomed and accepted. In some cases I want more micromanagement like you (experienced hardcore players) but this is too detailed according to me too. I think we should solve this with only one slider. source
I don't want like quoting myself either, but from the same thread @SOku linked:
This is not a 'them vs us' argument! We all want BL to be the best it can be. I personally am not hating on console players because of them being console players. I, and others, are disappointed and worried that complex mechanics - mechanics that ONCE existed in a working form - are being reworked as a priority to be more accessible to input devices, with time and resources being poured into these changes. This needs to be realized, and as you say, these changes are being made a priority over critical content that existed in previous games.

Me pointing indications is in no way agreeing that I know 100% that BL is in the state it's in because of consoles. Of course not! What I am saying however is that from looking at certain design choices and trends, it is very likely that some features are being reformed to make BL accessible to as many input devices, at the cost of gameplay too, something forum users (mainly PC) absolutely do not want.
@SOku, even though we may cling onto the main argument of the UI, I don't believe it is fair to simply dismiss it under the pretext that 'it's said too many times'. It is still valid, because to this day, we have not heard a reason or justification for its implementation/change. Whether it's (imo) poor game design, or simplification to meet a certain demographic, we really don't know, but we CAN speculate. On the other hand @Lord Grindelvald, while jumping to conclusions is peoples' right, we also shouldn't dismiss SOku's points as they too are certainly valid, he knows the full picture as well, so treating him as though he does not would be a mistake (one I did in that same thread).
 

StewVader

Sergeant
Bannerlord's living world sim (econ, quest generation, production, AI parties' priority, recruiting) is a lot more complex than Warband's. I don't know where people get the idea it is simplified or whatever.

If they really cared that much about a console release, they could have (should have) stripped all of it out, since players won't notice unless they pay attention -- and judging by the fact that people still haven't noticed the kill bandits quests pops in response to bandits being nearby or the gang leader quest for weapons happens right before one of them tries to take a corner from another, I'd say most players don't.

What are you even talking about? Please demonstrate what's complex about Bannerlord's living world.

Quest generation is random
The economy doesn't really react to anything. Doesn't react to war, weather, other variables - villagers don't even buy stuff.
Production?? Wtf are you talking about? Everyday there are inputs and outputs by an unseen artisan and workshops, that you can't even really interact with......
AI party priorities and recruiting? LOL - how is that more complex than Diplomacy Mod?

Dude. Please stop simping for FailWords. This game has nothing complex or layered going on. Its as deep as a puddle.
 

StewVader

Sergeant
Complex =/= well designed. It is undoubtedly more complex than warband, even though the poor design means the result is usally extremely simple on the player's end.

I agree complex =/= well designed. But what exactly is more complex in Bannerlord than a Modded Warband?

Fief management is virtually the same; spend gold make improvements.
Army management is virtually the same; wages, food, morale
Army Combat controls are ARGUABLY the same; as in not very complex in either game.
Kingdom politics in Bannerlord is maybe more complex because of Kingdom policies, but not by much
Relationships in Bannerlord are actually less complex than Warband
Marriage in Bannerlord is actually less complex than Warband
Trade is maybe a bit more complex? But not really, the player still buys low and sells high depending on regional price and trade routes are easy to ID
Companions in Bannerlord are actually less complex than Warband and less immersive
Tournaments are virtually the same
The game map in Bannerlord actually seems less complex than Warband
Interaction with AI in Bannerlord actually seems less complex than Warband

The list goes on, and I concede its very subjective...BUT there is arguably very little enhancement (besides graphics) to the Warband experience, ESPECIALLY a modded Warband experience.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
What are you even talking about? Please demonstrate what's complex about Bannerlord's living world.

Quest generation is random
The economy doesn't really react to anything. Doesn't react to war, weather, other variables - villagers don't even buy stuff.
Production?? Wtf are you talking about? Everyday there are inputs and outputs by an unseen artisan and workshops, that you can't even really interact with......
AI party priorities and recruiting? LOL - how is that more complex than Diplomacy Mod?
Yeah, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Especially claiming the economy doesn't react to war when one of the things that is blatantly noticeable is how expensive food gets after a siege and the stampede of caravans to the city after a siege concludes. You said you hadn't played Bannerlord for months back in September (and weren't going to return to the forums, as I recall) but now I'm actually wondering if you played it ever.

People honestly believing quest generation is random when it is definitely is not is the main reason I say they would have stripped it out if their sole aim was simplifying the game.
 

StewVader

Sergeant
Yeah, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Especially claiming the economy doesn't react to war when one of the things that is blatantly noticeable is how expensive food gets after a siege and the stampede of caravans to the city after a siege concludes. You said you hadn't played Bannerlord for months back in September (and weren't going to return to the forums, as I recall) but now I'm actually wondering if you played it ever.

People honestly believing quest generation is random when it is definitely is not is the main reason I say they would have stripped it out if their sole aim was simplifying the game.

You're just wrong. War in general doesn't effect food prices that much, at least not in the recent games i've played. The instance you stated is the only time you notice a small increase in price, but its very local and not very meaningful. But WAR in generally doesn't effect the prices of much, it really doesn't. YOU WOULD EXPECT WAR to make the prices of ore, wood, and other resources to go up, but you don't see that. Villagers sell food to towns everyday unless its being sieged, it may even be twice a day, this is the only time what your describing occurs and THEN its quickly goes back down after. Have you even played recently?

The quest are random. There is no reason why any specific quest pops up in any particular town or village. Its not like something happens THAT CAUSES a village to need grain or tools, its just RANDOM. Its not like town NPCS actually trade with each other. Its not like the NPC actually NEEDS horses for his inventory.....so on and so on.

You are so wrong its sad really. Its like your creating a delusion simply to cope with how lackluster and non-complex this game actually is.

Keep defending this garbage though. Its very amusing.
 
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Why are you lashing out like this, especially when you're only going off your own casual observations? Apocal isn't "defending the game". Just because quests feel random to you doesn't warrant you acting like an ******* to anyone who disagrees.

I haven't read much of Bannerlord's code yet but from what I have seen it's vastly more complicated than Warband (whose code I have read). Similar to Bannerlord, there is a lot of stuff in Warband which is fairly complex, but since it's so poorly designed it rarely shows up and most players dont even know it's there. This is the case in a lot of games, but in Warband it's like half the mechanics make no percievable impact on gameplay. Bannerlord is probably worse.
 

StewVader

Sergeant
Why are you lashing out like this, especially when you're only going off your own casual observations? Apocal isn't "defending the game". Just because quests feel random to you doesn't warrant you acting like an ******* to anyone who disagrees.

I haven't read much of Bannerlord's code yet but from what I have seen it's vastly more complicated than Warband (whose code I have read). Similar to Bannerlord, there is a lot of stuff in Warband which is fairly complex, but since it's so poorly designed it rarely shows up and most players dont even know it's there. This is the case in a lot of games, but in Warband it's like half the mechanics make no percievable impact on gameplay. Bannerlord is probably worse.

I guess you might be more sensitive than most, but I wouldn't classify my response as lashing out. I'm simply defending my position.

Didn't you say earlier that you didn't even buy the game?
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
You're just wrong. War in general doesn't effect food prices that much, at least not in the games i've played. The instance you stated is the only time you notice a small increase in price, but its very local and not very meaningful.
It definitely affects food prices that much when they run out of food.
Start of the siege.
FfbXKW3.jpg
What are those food prices like?
r5ZtH7N.jpg

Garrison totally starved.
VTNtt2t.jpg

How about those food prices now?
M6Z3zkv.jpg
It is actually a bit worse than it looks because in the start prices pic, those aren't the actual Varcheg prices but have a hostile faction modifier attached to make them higher. Varcheg has an attached fish village so it has really cheap fish (probably around 4-6 denars). After the siege is done, the hostile modifier goes away but prices are still inflated. And the prosperity of the town is low (in the 2000s); richer settlements can get you grain prices up over 100 denars due to inflation.
The quest are random. There is no reason why any specific quest pops up in any particular town or village. Its not like something happens THAT CAUSES a village to need grain or tools, its just RANDOM. Its not like town NPCS actually trade with each other/ Its not like the NPC actually NEEDS horses for his inventory etc etc.
The grain seed quest pops because of low prosperity, (relatively) low grain in the nearby town and (I think) inflated grain price across the continent. Tools I'm not sure about, but I think it is low prosperity. The Lord Need Horses quest pops when the lord has few horses -- and they do need them to take advantage of the mounted footmen bonus.

There are others but I'm not really inspired to do a detailed breakdown for a guy who claims I'm delusion when literally anyone can see a hundred and one bandit base quests in the areas where there are lots of bandit bases.
You are so wrong its sad really. Its like your creating a delusion simply to cope with how lackluster and non-complex this game actually is.

Keep defending this garbage though. Its very amusing.
🤔
 

StewVader

Sergeant
It definitely affects food prices that much when they run out of food.
Start of the siege.
FfbXKW3.jpg
What are those food prices like?
r5ZtH7N.jpg

Garrison totally starved.
VTNtt2t.jpg

How about those food prices now?
M6Z3zkv.jpg
It is actually a bit worse than it looks because in the start prices pic, those aren't the actual Varcheg prices but have a hostile faction modifier attached to make them higher. Varcheg has an attached fish village so it has really cheap fish (probably around 4-6 denars). After the siege is done, the hostile modifier goes away but prices are still inflated. And the prosperity of the town is low (in the 2000s); richer settlements can get you grain prices up over 100 denars due to inflation.

The grain seed quest pops because of low prosperity, (relatively) low grain in the nearby town and (I think) inflated grain price across the continent. Tools I'm not sure about, but I think it is low prosperity. The Lord Need Horses quest pops when the lord has few horses -- and they do need them to take advantage of the mounted footmen bonus.

There are others but I'm not really inspired to do a detailed breakdown for a guy who claims I'm delusion when literally anyone can see a hundred and one bandit base quests in the areas where there are lots of bandit bases.

🤔

And lots of times you will see bandit bases with no quest to eliminate the bandit base. Also, how do you know the random bandit base spawning isn't linked with the quest when it RANDOMLY spawns? I suspect the bandit base randomly spawns, then does a check for notables within range - but its still random.

What causes the bandit bases to pop up? What causes anything? Its like the random peace/war declarations. Its random dude. I'm sorry you think its some super complex interwoven thing, but its not. Its random. You'll have bandit bases all over, with no reason to it. YOU would expect to see lots of bandit bases around towns that have been sieged recently - but you'll always find bandit bases in norther Vlandia where enemy AI never gets to.

Also, your literally making stuff up. I've seen villages with high hearths, connected to towns with high prosperity that offer the grain quest. How do I know? Because, usually its my fief, and its one of the few quest I don't mind doing, since I always carry lots of grain, same for tools.

Nothing in the game appears linked whatsoever. Every single time an AI army pops up it gets 1 of 3 possible quest. ITS RANDOM - its does not appear tied to an ACTUAL need of the army its in. I'm not sure why you keep asserting that it is.
 
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